Darius West

These are all very good suggestions SunlessNick. I might point out that a person whose business is language (poet, author, proof-reader) may seek to have a higher proficiency than their Know roll would convey, but that is the only complaint I might make. I love the idea of "Field" as a skill and may well adopt it. I certainly like the idea of Administration/Bureaucracy as a skill too. I think the most important thing is to insure that the skill has a reasonable base percentage. IDK about how many people play RuneQuest, but it divides skills up into categories and provides attribute based bonuses for them, and I have often wondered if something similar might actually do CoC some good, as attributes are often barely relevant in the rules, but matter IRL.

I have always found the occult community to want to seem edgy but are actually deeply conservative and hold great reverence for old things, quite disproportionate to their worth. Éliphas Lévi perhaps was not privy to the documentary findings of the Papal court that outlawed the Templars, but the anti-Muslim symbology is all nested in the image to be drawn out by a worthy scholar. Baphomet even sounds like Mohammed. As to "reclaiming" symbology, don't you mean appropriating? I mean, this symbol starts as a Templar image, not associated with any actual religion other than Christian propaganda, and exists solely to literally demonize another monotheist sect. Who is "reclaiming" that? The only people who can are the Muslims, and somehow I don't think they are inclined to.

I would argue that the Telmori don't often engage in open battle, but wage very successful guerilla warfare. In the past I ran a game where my players were campaigning against the Telmori in the wake of the annihilation of the Maboder, so as a GM I had to make them credible and dangerous adversaries, capable of mounting a serious challenge to Sartarites and Lunars alike, but not ridiculously overpowered. This is what I did... (1) While their shamans are very powerful individuals, in fact they are more useful for using spirits to send messages and for using their magic to spy on enemy movements. This allows them to know where their enemy is weak. It is also a problem that will have the players dancing about trying to figure out who is the spy in their midst. (2) The Rune Magic of the Telmori is a no-brainer. Of course it is great. On the other hand, they will use it sparingly and avoid relying on it. (3) Traps. The Telmori loved creating simple mechanical traps that they could use to supplement an ambush, ewok style. (4) Hidden Caches. When my Telmori went to war, the first thing they did was abandon Wolfstand to the ghosts. Telmori understood that their women and children were their true treasure, and took steps to hide them in local cave systems that had been well provisioned for such events. They separated their families from their war camps, while not leaving their families undefended. (5) Hiding the evidence. The Telmori would always seek to clean up all evidence of an ambush, leaving no survivors, no tracks, and as few trace signs of the struggle as they could, time permitting. (6) Spies. While they only had 2, the Telmori did have members of their tribe that were living with outsiders anonymously who mustered in as mercenaries for the purposes of espionage, who would contact the shamans when big things were in the wind. Of course, being a spy in Glorantha is super-difficult. One had forsaken the tribe to join Lanbril in Alone, while the other was an illuminated Lankhor Mhy Scholar. The thing about Jomes Wulf is that he was from a Lunar Family with Telmori roots (Hence the surname). He knew the tribes and their methods, and thus how to beat them.

*Sigh*, what so few people realize is that Baphomet is actually the Templar depiction of Islam's prophet Mohammed before which their initiates were forced to prostrate themselves in order to teach them the price of failure in the Holy Land. In fact, given that we live in an age of Anti-Mohammed cartoons, technically that was likely the first, and is certainly the oldest depiction of Mohammed for anti-Islamic purposes in the West. What is funnier is that Satanists are worshiping at a cartoon depiction of Mohammed. Sometimes the History of Symbols is quite comedic.

In fact Glorantha has surpasses the Bronze Age in technology, but that was in the past. During the Second Age there was a group of extremely influential world conquerors called the Jrusteli Empire, also known as the God Learners. They had flying ships, and bronze ships, steam-punk magical prosthetics and even a mechanical god called Zistor. Through hacking rituals and hero quests the God Learners even warped the Gods themselves to be more to the liking of the God Learners. Eventually they broke the Great Compromise and the Gods came down on them like a ton of bricks and they ceased to exist within a couple of generations. Much of their tech was also stolen from the Dwarves, who have a lot of tech that is forbidden to non-Dwarves. This includes cannons, muskets, robots, and alchemy. The Dwarves actually regard Glorantha as a great machine that is broken and they are trying to fix it. The main reason Glorantha is bronze age is because Iron is rare and thus expensive, and bronze is found in a naturally alloyed state in rocks, which never happens IRL.

Good point. Sufism is fascinating in that it reinvents itself over and over again every century or so, in order to maintain the freshness of the core message. Where other traditions have become stale, this Sufi reinvention has covered music, mathematics, poetry, weaving, dancing, begging, travelling, etc. over the centuries. Each time Sufism creates an integrated syllabus of spiritual teaching that is relevant to the contemporary setting and its mores. While the other pre-existing traditions are left alive, they are also left to ossify and corrupt by the core teachers, serving as perhaps a means of filtering potential recruits. In this way Sufism overcomes the threats of institutional corruption that have come to weight down other religions. Islamic extremists often persecute Sufism at the moment, and one of the criticisms they level is that Sufism isn't Islam, it's crypto-Buddhism.

Gluttony mysticism is a new one. I love it.

I completely accept that the Jains are ascetics. While I would also agree that Sikhism argues against asceticism, it is nevertheless strongly influenced by it, just as it is influenced by Islamic ideas, and tries to synthesize the two influences. Sikhism is a product of the era of its birth, which was a grossly excessively bad time in India thanks to Islam. I think that in many ways Sikhism rejected the trappings of Hindu asceticism and the pride that ascetics often adopted. As a monotheism, the Sikhs promote a mysticism that is god-centered. This is not to suggest however that monotheisms cannot be ascetic, given each branch maintains renunciate traditions. Sikhism just isn't ascetic in the primarily Hindu mode of the region. Instead the Sikhs maintain a military asceticism, seeking to remain pure in the midst of impurity, and to live disciplined lives. When you come to the miracles of the Sikhs however, they conform to the ascetic model I have proposed. I would strenuously argue that the Sikhs are at their core a transcendental religion, and their miracles tend to be of an ascetic character.

Okay, basically a mystic is a devotee of a form of asceticism, generally linked to a religious philosophy. They practice austerities, and seek through their denial of the flesh and their desires to transcend the limits of the merely mortal world. Real world examples of ascetics would include religions such as Buddhism, Sikhism, some parts of the Hindu tradition (though it is mainly pantheistic). The most commonly existing Gloranthan mystic would probably be a Kralori Martial Artist, though the Lunars are trying to mass produce illuminates. Presently Ars Magica is the only game that specifically treats asceticism/mysticism as a distinct magic system with much success imo. HeroQuest had a system based on Refutation, where you could Refute Gravity to fly, or Refute the Stomach to not have to eat etc. Mongoose did a system where the mystic had a single very well developed power, but I didn't like the system much. There is frequent mention of the mystic path in Stafford's "Arcane Secrets". This isn't really in keeping with what mysticism is like. Sorcery is about logic and liturgy. Mystics are more about questioning the underlying nature of reality. A classic example from Glorantha is the Larnsting Mystic who became King Sartar the First. When he confronted the tyrannical King Brangbane, he used his change power to turn Brangbane and his rotten followers into ghouls. Another time he turned people into pigs. Sometimes he turned clans into tribes etc. Sartar never personally killed anyone, but he did change things, which is not surprising as Larnste is the old deity of the Movement/Change rune, and that rune features heavily in the Storm Pantheon. In the new write-up for example, Mastakos now has a protean change spell to draw upon. The source for this is KoDP. I think one of the things that a "mysticism system" needs is a large focus on meditation skill at very least. Mystics are in the process of renouncing the world for a transcendent life beyond that of the mere spirit plane, though some would erroneously call them spiritual. Mystics would have powers to overcome physical limitations of their bodies. They can ignore privations like extremes of temperature, needs for sustenance, the need to breathe, and even ignore certain types of physical damage. A mystic could perform feats of levitation, bi-location, or even telepathy and teleportation. Your classic Shaolin martial arts Monk likely supplements his fighting ability with a measure of ascetic mystical training. You might argue then that mystics are all about their bodies and their magical feats are all tied to their physical form, and that would be mainly of true but sort of false too. Christian mystics would be carried into the Heavens undergoing bizarre experiences. Hindu mystics would hold their fist in the air for 2 decades, forcing the very gods to accede to their will. Sikh martyrs would be boiled alive by Muslims and never display signs of discomfort. Arguably the monkey king Sun Wukong from Journey to the West is also a highly developed mystic, and his powers are very odd indeed, including a cloud trapeze, invulnerability, immortality, the ability to call forth duplicates of himself etc.

Sadly, Greg in Arcane Lore (The Stafford Library) is pretty clear that Mysticism is very much its own distinct type of magic and is every bit as important as shamanism, theism or sorcery so I cannot agree that mysticism is just an "approach". Now please understand that I am not disagreeing with you insofar as I think that every culture in Glorantha probably has its own system of mysticism, just as Kralorela which is ostensibly mainly Mystical also has shamans, priests and sorcerers. We really do need a discrete system for mysticism in Glorantha to reflect what Greg wrote.

My friend used a Warhammer random Chaos name generator to name his kitten. He settled on Skullcrush Throb-toad. It was shortened to Skull or Skullie, but never carried the same dignity as his full name. Some less complimentary suggestions: Lurker, Runt, Skank, Ambush. Just steer away from names from Cats them Musical.

I tip my hat to the GM of this session. Very nicely done.

I completely agree. The fact is that the isolated renunciate makes for a truly terrible player character. A fighting mystic like a Taraltaran or an Immanent Mastery initiate make for far more interesting and action packed stories. I did once play a saintly Franciscan monk in Ars Magica (and had a great time too), but the setting lent itself to allowing the character to shine. Agreed. Let us also remember the great Orlanthi mystical tradition of the Larnstings. The foremost member of whom was probably Sartar, who never killed anybody but did periodically change people into things. If I were to play a Larnsting, I think I would want to develop the means of causing Chaos' desire to consume to turn upon itself, effectively making chaos features cure themselves like a cancer that gave itself cancer.

I would suggest a different approach. I think that the mainstay of surviving illumination in the West is the Arkat Cult, by which I mean the one that Mularik Ironeye belongs to, not those abortive schismatic Safelstran city state cults. They are a small, selective crew with a join-or-die mentality and an intensely strict moral code and an Orwellian review process. The aim of Irensavalism is to attain a new gnosis of the Invisible God. The aim of Illumination is personal liberation. Now to a casual and uninformed eye, a mad hermit sitting in a cave performing asceticism doesn't look much different to another mad hermit sitting in a cave performing asceticism, but one might be a sort of Satanic version of Catweazle, while the other might be St. John the Divine. The fact is, it is possible for mystics to have radically different aims and outcomes, even if their practices seem similar. I think that Irensavalist mystics are busily performing asceticism in order to enter the Saint Plane in order to HQ towards their new gnosis, which is a Transcendental form of Mysticism, but bears no relationship to Illumination. By comparison, I regard Illumination as a form of Layman Zen Buddhism combined with Anthropological insight. Certain individuals are subjected to a series of questions (koans) that set up a high degree of cognitive dissonance, and when these implicit, largely culturally based contradictions reach a critical mass, the individual either goes insane, or becomes able to separate themselves from their cultural prejudice and preconceptions, and thus also from those of other cultures, and the spiritual penalties of those societies. The difference being that Zen would never accept that Chaos is in any way tolerable, as while Chaos was once a valuable tool in the creation of the world, it is now solely a source of corruption, and the Buddhist teaching is that when one crosses a river, one leaves the boat behind, and if the boat has become a crawling perversion that spits disease and mutation causing danger to everybody, it is better than it be burned for the compassionate safety of everyone else while you compassionately pray the chaos boat enjoys a better rebirth than its present hellbeast manifestation. I hope you haven't seriously thought that my argument was so simplistic, as I assure you it is multi-layered. Yes, I do think that Illumination is a recipe for munchkinism. I think that it is a means by which that certain individuals in Glorantha can break social conventions and achieve a lot more power than is available within the confines of their culture alone. Illumination is a shortcut to Herodom. It is also a shortcut to Chaos. My complaints about Illumination are different. Firstly, while I grant that Illumination might initially allow a view of all peoples as fundamentally trapped within their worldviews and unable to see beyond the constraints of their upbringing and preconceptions, of necessity, I debate the notion that this amounts to a philosophical neutrality towards Chaos instantly. I strongly debate that an illuminate would look upon your average pus-spurting chaos rape monster with the post-cultural equanimity that the Illumination write-up suggests. The Arkati of Mularik Ironeye certainly don't regard chaos in this way, and they are illuminated. I would argue that most illuminates in the Lunar Empire can see some superficial value in employing chaos monsters as shock troops so that Lunar Citizens might not have to die, but will that cultural equanimity be maintained when the Crimson Bat traverses their province and their friends and family end up in the bat's belly? Chaos may have been present at the beginning of the world as a formative element, the Primal Plasma, but the Unholy Trio polluted the Chaosium and now it is a source of only bad things. Just because you have become spontaneously become a Zen anthropologist doesn't mean you suddenly look on nuclear war and nuclear waste with equanimity, (and lets face facts, mutations and the end of the world is what Chaos is all about) in fact it utterly cuts against the fundamental reason for the insight which promotes that illumination, which is compassion. You will cure the chaotic if you can, and destroy them if you must, but you will understand that if you value the survival of the world as a vehicle of further illumination that it needs to be protected, and rampant chaos is a huge existential threat to that. Secondly, and for this discussion, more importantly, I think Illumination is a very bad model for mysticism for a very tangible reason within the RQG rules. Why? Well, let me explain... Illumination is not a complete picture of the process, and in fact Nysalorism is not a "live tradition", but in fact a dead one, resuscitated by the Lunars in much the same way that the Medieval Church kept a bastardized form of Latin alive long after it was a dead language. The illumination write-up produces this false expectation that all mysticism results in a form of "illumination" as its desired outcome, but this is not correct in any way. In fact, Nysalorism as a dead cult in fact has not mystical practice, and the only thing that remains is its legacy of a name for its singular philosophical outlook at completion. Draconic mysticism seriously doesn't care about illumination, its goal is to gain enough spiritual power, and wisdom to complete the rebirths necessary to become a True Dragon. This seems to be a very Immanent style of mysticism, until one realizes that the asceticism comes in not partaking of the powers prematurely, and ultimately a True Dragon is both Transcendent and Immanent as it pleases. The HQ rules do in fact cover Mysticism, and so does the Mongoose Second Age rules. However unsatisfactory these approaches are, they provide some guidance. I would also hasten to point out that we do in fact have a Cult write-up for a live mystical tradition in the forthcoming RuneQuest: Gods of Glorantha volume, that being the Cult of Dayzatar. In this write-up we are told that Dayzatar monks must have been Priests of a Friendly cult before becoming monks, that they must swear to a code of conduct; that they meditate to remove their worldly failings and sins and largely live lives of isolation and contemplation. They do however get their own Rune Magic. What they don't get is the power of Refutations as discussed in HQ, though in fact, they probably should. The issue of Mysticism in Glorantha is a bit like the issue of Magic in Pendragon. In both systems and worlds, characters have existed for a long time without access to the info, and while the characters have interacted with these powers, they have always been mysterious and out of reach, which has added to their allure, but has also been a bit dissatisfying. Now when Pendragon introduced a magic system, some people relished the opportunity to play a magic user, while others didn't like the system and said that the air of mystery behind magic was ruined by it. In fact it was objectively a very interesting magic system, but it certainly has the potential to disrupt the folkloric impetus that motivated many knightly adventures. This need not be the case in Glorantha, as it is implicitly a far more magical place, but if we are to introduce mysticism, it needs to make strong use of the cornerstones of Mysticism, such as ascetic practice, meditation on the nature of reality, the intricacies of philosophical approach, and so forth, and these should have a tangible effect on the power of the Mystic. What mysticism is NOT however is a dead tradition. Nysalorism is a dead tradition. Irensavalism is a live tradition. Draconic Mysticism is a live tradition. the Sadhus of Teshnos are a live tradition, the cult of Dayzatar is a live tradition, etc. In short, Mysticism needs a separate write-up in the same way that Sorcery, Shamanism and Divine Magic have been written up, and it needs to be good. It also should never assume that illumination is the same for every Mystical Tradition, as they each have very different aims and objectives even if they look superficially similar.

I enjoyed what you wrote and largely agree with it. I do think that there is enough evidence to still defend the idea that Immanent Mastery is a mystical tradition. (1) In HeroQuest we are told there are 2 forms of Mysticism, transcendental and immanent. The transcendent seeks to go beyond the world, while the Immanent see that the world is within us. The very name of Immanent Mastery suggests that second string of mysticism which is often neglected. I recall that the Lunar Taraltaran Sect are Immanent Mystics who practice a scimitar martial art, for example. Draconic Mysticism definitely has elements of both Transcendental and Immanent philosophy to it, and that is what Immanent Mastery is seeking to emulate. I think in fact that what they have produced is a successfully simplified form of Draconic transformation which is indeed perfectly within the purview of Immanent mysticism. (2) Immanent Mastery is described as a Kralorelan Mystery cult. We know however that it was in fact an attempt by the Jrusteli to harness and understand the Draconic Mysteries. It does however possess a Charismatic Wisdom skill which is substantially akin to Illumination in many ways but is obviously (as you suggest) a New Age parody of it, as it is based on a superficial and reductionist God Learner understanding of the Draconic Mysteries. In fact the Jrusteli were singularly unable to duplicate the Draconic Mysteries, and Immanent Mastery is likely their best effort at doing so. For all that, Immanent Mastery is really little different to Hykim and Mikyh (itself a Draconic cult which gave rise to Totemic Shamanism), and might be classed as a Draconic Heresy. There is also record of the fact that many of the Dragonewt cities in Dragon Pass themselves practice draconic heresies. Now the term Draconic Heresy might easily be misapplied or over applied. As such I think it is unfair to say that the intention of Immanent Mastery isn't mysticism, but that it is a failed form of Draconic mysticism, undoubtedly interspersed with legitimate Draconic teachings. I would even go so far as to say that a follower of Immanent Mastery may well be able to integrate into a true Draconic Tradition if they underwent the split brain surgery and were prepared to jettison the parts of their training that were extraneous to what the Dragonewts might teach them. I would also argue that a failed mystic is still a mystic, just not a very good one. The Exarchs may consider them idiots, but then the Exarchs perform a similarly misunderstood and mutant form of Sorcery, using Permanent Pow instead of Magic Points, that derives from the Godhood of their Emperor, so really, who are the idiots?

I am not talking about illumination, I am talking about mysticism, the 4th type of magic in Glorantha. I strongly suggest that Irensavalism sounds a lot more like a sorcerous branch of mystic practice than any form of sorcery. There is some overlap between all the schools of magic, and this one area where sorcery and mysticism overlap imo, as what else do you call going on a journey of the inner spirit to establish contact with a higher manifestation of the Invisible God? Sorcery, but not as the rules know it. I also think that Illumination is all but worthless as a means by which to understand mysticism as a school of magic in Glorantha. Even Immanent Mastery is a better example (and it is not a good example either imo).

Waiting for the hardback copy.

I daresay you are correct insofar as the rules are concerned, but it would be supremely odd for the West not to have a school of mysticism and Irensavalism more than fits that bill, given its similarities to Catharism.

My interpretation of the situation is this (take it or leave it). YGMV, but official history suggests that Leika fails in her bid. Sartarite Tribal Kings are (of necessity) a pragmatic lot and will have no problem horse trading political favors even with their enemies as needs must. The fact is that the Orlanth temple of Jonstown is not the true political powerhouse of the city; that is the Lhankor Mhy Temple. Jonstown is run, not by Tribal Kings, but by a Guild Ring, and many of those Guilds are tied in worship, not to Orlanth, but to Lhankor Mhy who run what is effectively Startar's great University city. Lhankor Mhy is a patron deity to many guilds such as the scribes, the bookbinders, the alchemists etc, all of which are over-represented in Jonstown, due to the need to service a very important center of learning. I would suggest that even if Leika traded the artifact, and even given the rise in the importance of Orlanth given the situation in 1625 Sartar (war). The Malani would likely weigh the value of the artifact against the likelihood of Leika's bid succeeding and agree to support her to get cash and prizes while undermining her politically on other fronts, wasting her time in a political holding action and throwing their ultimate support ultimately behind another candidate (Argrath?).

Well at the moment, what we sadly have is a situation where mysticism "is" illumination within the RQG rules. I think this situation does everyone a disservice. To my mind Lunar Illumination =/= Larnstingism=/=Draconic Wisdom =/= Irensavalism =/=Cult of Dayzatar =/= Kralori Mysticism =/= Eastern Isles Mysticism. All these traditions should be treated as somewhat similar but discrete. I also suspect that Mysticism is somewhat more associated with Hero Status, as it seems that being able to transcend the world is part of what makes a Hero able to interact with the mythic realms of their belief system. HeroQuest and Mongoose both had rules about Mysticism btw, but I think we can do better.

Every sect of Malkionism has strict rules on what is and isn't acceptable in tapping. The teachings of the Invisible God say that you should love creation, and tapping is the opposite of that, and so it needs to be ethically constrained. RQ3 had a series of rules about it.

I would suspect a Harmony Rune on a banner might indicate a desire for parlay. Putting a black rune on a white banner certainly leaves less room for miscommunication. This won't work with Trolls however as it is doubtful whether they see color, so you might be better making such a rune out of wood, or shaving a harmony rune into the hide of livestock then shooing it over to them so they will eat it, see the rune and figure you have fed them so you probably want to talk not fight.

Some intellectual snobs may make a point of it, just to show their disdain for the work of their competitors. Academic politics...

Mongoose Press' "Second Age" books have rules for Draconized Orlanthi mythos cults and for Draconic cults during the EWF. They all rely on a Draconic Mysticism skill to cast. Superficially, Draconic magic doesn't synergise well with other forms of magic. There is this whole lack of a developed system of Mysticism Magic in RQ. HeroQuest had a system based on "refutation", but I get the sense that Draconic Mysticism is pretty different, even if it leads to something pretty similar to Illumination, like most forms of Mysticism. One thing that I have gleaned however is that humans have often found unusual uses for Draconic Egg magic. Nysalor was born from such an Egg and the Egg-Lord of the Sartar Magical Union likely has some sort of Sorcery that combines with Draconic Egg magic. There is mention of another free floating pseudocosmic egg doing the rounds in RQ3's Elder Secrets supplement. Also Dragonewt Skins and their magic reservoirs sheds some light on what the eggs might do. Dragonewts are intrinsically mysterious and alien. Some for example starve to death because they have never learned to eat in all their incarnations. The EWF prove that humans and Dragonewts can interact, but remember that any human requires the brain splitting surgery to ever perform Draconic magic or even to speak Dragonewt. Without the operation you simply can't understand Dragonewt behavior and concepts.

Everything above is correct, but let me add a bit of info as it is something I have spent some time on. Guilds are a long term feature of the Heortling urban landscape, and in fact such organizations have existed as professional organizations in real world history for an extraordinary long time. In every urban society you find similar systems emerging from pre-feudal Japan, to Sumer, to Rome. Artisans form quasi-religious organizations to protect their professional knowledge, and stop external competition, often with a patron saint or deity. New Pavis supplements all make some mention of the Pavic guilds. In Sartar, there is even a "Guild Ring" that rules in places like Jonstown, where the settlement borders multiple tribes and clans that have an interest in the place. Many guilds will form the core of the worship of some local deities i.e. Gustbran for smiths, Minlister for brewers and vintners, Lhankor Mhy for Alchemists, Book Binders, Scribes etc, Donandar for minstrels etc, but the guilds are generally going to be separate organizations to the cults. The notion was that you can take a guild apprenticeship for a series of background skills and a little militia training for free weapon skills in RQ2.