Sir_Godspeed

This does remind me a bit of a perspective someone espoused on some other site: that Glorantha actually is just as mundane as our real world, but that we play through stories and sagas that involve supernatural elements just as much as RW stories do. It's not a perspective I'll ever use, because it doesn't sound all that fun to use in-universe (and kind of removes the point of making up fantasy worlds), but that doesn't mean that it's not fun to *think about* every now and then. This "The God Learners Retconned the Universe"-theory strikes me much the same way. Probably not one I'll ever entertain seriously, but another fun conspiracy or meta-textual perspective to ponder. As for time in the God Time, I think the general gist is that while linear time as we know it didn't exist - sequential narratives *did*. It's just that you could also have multiple sequences existing side by side, and thus multiple truths and multiple causalities, without mutual exclusivity. This was mostly made impossible by the Compromise. That's how I read it, anyway.

This is pure coincidence, but after reading some of The Secret History of the Mongols, and more generally about steppe peoples, I decided to create a Genghis Khan-expy for my own (perpetually evolving and not much used) fantasy setting. One thing I wanted to explore there was having a character who managed to become legendary and nearly conquer the known world almost completely without magical aid - which would sort of serve as a counterweight to the otherwise fairly common appearance of magic in the history of great conquerors and empires. It just like it thematically should be in there somewhere, a character who by sheer force of iron will and dogged determination managed to gut down every sorcerer, spirit and god sent to him, who by sheer grit and defiance would ride through curses, and raze temples and mage academies. And then, much like the real Genghis Khan, meet his demise at some point, effectively vanishing out of history and being left as a massive enigma to later historians, and kind of a bogeyman to a lot of magic groups. Part of this legacy was also a highly mixed feeling in his people, who revered him immensely as the man who made conquerors out of horse-herders living in yurts, but also nearly driving them to extinction by his unfathomable ambition. I had this little vignette written out where a magically talented ambassador arrives in his yurt to parlay, and sees a man surrounded by a blinding host of spirits circling around him like a flock of birds, attracted by the enormous innate power, but kept at bay by an iron will and discipline. Now, Sheng Seleris isn't really this, of course, as he is a demigod and of course very much uses magic - partly because that's just how Glorantha works (ie. its fundamental logic is bascially magical in the colloquial sense). However, I've always really like this idea of him as mostly driven by sheer grit and determination - and the idea that such could negate magic is very appealing to me. A bit different from the orthodox Vithelan sage who overcomes sorcerers, priests and shamans by avoidance and serene nullification - but thematically appealing in its own way. Anyway, this thread has been enlightening about this topic. I didn't previously know about the Zolathi - only that Sheng brought with him a bunch of guys he'd previously been tortured together with as the kernel of his empire.

I'm wondering if it's just superficially significant, since Sevening in the Lunar context is a step towards enlightenment (as far as I know), and not much else, whereas this seems to have a different kind of significance. I'm not sure though, it could share in something common.

So Zarlen is the god of scouting, I take it? Or is it more complex than that? Also, yeah, this myth does do a good job of showing us the biases and prejudices of Hyaloring society. None of the people in Glorantha can really be said to be "good guys" except in specific contexts.

If there is one, I hope it also covers the other cultivars of wild cabbage, including, but not limited to kohlrabi/rutabaga, cauliflower, kale, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, savoy, collard greens, Iceberg salad, etc. Methinks either Heler or Eurmal has some play in this god's ancestry.

I must admit I kind of intepreted the "demi" as a roundabout way of saying that they were flightless. Speaking of demi-birds, if the Dragonewts still have them, why's DH never gotten a hold of anyone to try and revive their avilry? I think there was some talk about Jar-Eel or Hon-eel doing some Heroquesting to bring them back, but would that even be necessary if they're hanging around in Dragon Pass? Is it more of a case that the Dragonewts just won't part with them? Or are the ratites of the Golden Age Peloria different from modern demibirds?

Is that a thing in Glorantha?

Oh, derp. I totally meant Jolaty, Sheng's god after he was released from Kralorela. Somehow I got it mixed up with Sheng's previous name.

Seems odd that a Brithini with a diet of grain and fish would be shorter than a Pelorian with a diet based on grain and possibly not much else. I understand the comparison might be to highland Orlanthi, but the Brithini diet doesn't seem bad compared to agricultural serfs; some fish are very fatty and nice, after all. Also, how do Brithini Zzaburi fulfill their caste rules of being the tallest around? Hats and plateau shoes are already in used, but 30cm heels is pretty extreme. And what does this means for the town populated by short people that were allegedly tapped short in Fronela? I don't know, this feels like explaining something that didn't need explaining, to me. It just raises more questions, and not necessarily the fun kin.

AgartuSay is supposedly Sheng's god, but what do we know about it beyond that? Seems to be that beyond anything else, it's his personal deity. The comparison to Arkat is fine, of course, as they are both "Others" of deities created within Time, however, one is explicitly referred to as a deity, while the other is explicitly a mortal man (at least it seems so).

This is interesting. It was always my impression from reading the Glorious Reascent of Yelm that the Pelorians considered the Ram People and Andam Horde to be two different groups, who attacked at different times, and that more specifically, the Rams were named or associated with that Big-ass Iron Ram they used to besiege cities. Always wondered how they got so much iron to begin with, but I guess this is the God Time, so who knows. That's a neat way of describing bronze.

Ovadorudus is Vadrus, from what I know, yes. No idea who Thengist is, although it's interesting to see that apparently Vadrudings are explicitly identified with the Rams (who are otherwise identified as Vingkotlings), which might lend credence to the idea that the term "Ram" is actually a wider term than Vingkotling per se, although it clearly doesn't cover ALL "Umathings"/para-Orlanthi, as it doesn't cover the Andam Horde, it seems. Is it just me, or is the prose in this myth a bit more... casual, than the others? Verlaro does feel like a negative stereotype of Lodril, yeah.

Do we know that? Would the Lunars know where the Pentans were entering their territory? Should they have troops stationed every few kilometers? If so, would they be able to put up any resistance or call for reinforcements in time? It's not like this was a small area to cover.

Intercepting a nomadic cavalry army is probably very hard. Maybe. Glamour has some terribly nasty magics in it though. And Alkoth is literally impenetrable, so there's that, and the lands around are marsh.

Just gonna add that, as far as Pelorian chronology is concerned, the Dawn really isn't that long ago. If Zarkos was ruined with the Flood or Ice Age (I forget which), then that still leaves a lot of the Storm Age for peoples to differentiate from each other. It doesn't take much more than desperate, terrified survivors losing their last goats to plague, and some myths to the death of an elder, a few generations inbetween, and whoopse-daisy you're now hunter-gatherers. But as you mentioned, that's just one of several possibilities. There's also differentiating between what the Dara Happans believe about the Votanki and what their actual origin is.

I've read the Guide and Revealed Mythologies, but I'm not familiar with Hrestol's Saga, or a lot of the genealogical stuff here. Where would we find this, the Middle Sea Empire? The Sorcery book? EDIT: Is Mt. Ladaral the same as Lodril's mountain on the Guide's God-Learner maps? I always thought it go drowned very early on in the Storm Age. Can't say I've thought it felt like it was placed at the mouth of the modern Janube.

All I can say is that there has to be something the Malkioni histories are not telling us about how the reproductivity of the caste system worked in Danmalastan. Either because they don't know, or they don't want to tell.

Oh, huh. I always got the impression that it was worldwide.

Those are some badass guys. More reasons to buy Ride Like The Wind. Always interesting to see the various forms Storm worshippers took before Heortlings as we know them came to be. The guy in the front is, if not a Rune Lord, certainly some kind of leader. He's the one with the Biggest Hat, after all, and has a staff/scepter instead of a pole-pick, not to mention the wings. It's probably too much to ask for to see their rumoured allies (bull-riders, lion-warriors and something else), but who knows. I also recognize the artist's style. It's the same guy who drew a lot of the new series of Prophet from Image Comics. Simon Roy, I think his name is. Great artist. https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/01/10-reasons-why-brandon-grahams-prophet-is-the-best.html

The Great Goat appears to have been Ragnaglar's Wild Companion during the descent from Dini. Whether that is literally Thed, or some other kind of thing going on, it does create a relation between him and goats that carry on to Broos. But, as others pointed out, the Balazarings might not care, or if they do, they might make very different conclusions. EDIT: I'm very sorry for multiposting. I just couldn't find out how to just quote part of a post and have it stay in the posting box when I switched pages.

Well, damn. If we take that as canon and at face value, it certainly seems to tie up some threads very conveniently.

As others have noted, the idea seems to be that the Votanki are descended from the Zarkosites.

Funny. This is very much like the myth of Thor and the goats that draw his chariot. In the evening he would butcher them, eat their meat, and then put their bones back into their skin, swing his hammer above them, and they would return to life. I wonder how/if there is any relation to Buserian, or Bisos, or Turos. All of these are cattle-themed names, possibly due to the prehistoric Cattle Hsunchen that migrated into Pelanda and Peloria from along the Janube, but this might not count for all of these elements. Well, for the urban Dara Happans maybe, but for most other societies, certainly free gathering probably predated organized agriculture, back to the Green Age. But this is conjecture. Real talk: this is probably the most sympathetic Yelm has ever come across for as long as I've read Glorantha. I honestly feel bad for the guy here. Unless, of course, the Emperor isn't Yelm but Murharzam or something. Still. Cattle-calling songs reminds me the ones in my own language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDnJ3QuSrY If I were to guess, I'd say Buserian's songs mostly serve to show that she is a goddess that can adapt to the needs of the herd, which is a good example for cowherders to follow. I honestly don't think this is too big of a difference. Divine family relations are quite mutable, imho, and whether someone are sisters or daughter-mother is among the least drastic ones.

I was thinking of Daga, but turns out he is the god of drought rather than famine, as I thought. But yeah, seemingly some incarnation of the concept of hunger or famine, I reckon. It's rather interesting to see these gods of extremely primitive concepts arise more recently than kingship and such, but I guess that's what happens when you are a group of survivors of the Apocalypse of an urban society. Possibly, or one of the several Blue People around Lake Oronin, maybe? They have several incarnations, but some of them are associated with sorcery, like the Logicians and so on. They have at least one leader mentioned by name, but I can't recall what it is. EDIT: YarGan, is the guy i'm thinking of, I think. King of Logic aka Blue King. Anyway, hard to tell with no further hints.

Oh, and this thread is certainly not pointless, I've enjoyed reading the myths so far, and I'm probably more motivated than ever to buy the game.