+10 to cult weapons gift in Humakt

[DrDave]

So a new character gets the +10% to attack with cult weapons.  I assume that is a bonus when you roll an attack, not a 10% rise in skill.  (Especially since a rise in skill would cover parries, which this gift doesn't.)

 

[Bill the barbarian]

2 hours ago, DrDave said:

So a new character gets the +10% to attack with cult weapons.  I assume that is a bonus when you roll an attack, not a 10% rise in skill.  (Especially since a rise in skill would cover parries, which this gift doesn't.)

10 percent increase to the skill itself (and this would, as you noted, include parry with the cult weapon not a shield).

edited due to forgetting about the cult referred to in the question is Humakt ... mistakes are attributed to that and removed...

Cheers

Edited September 17, 2019 by Bill the barbarian
mistakes

[DrDave]

So you end up with a split skill with two different values for attack and parry?

For starting characters, does this get lost if it would push your value over 100%

[Bill the barbarian]

Just now, DrDave said:

So you end up with a split skill with two different values for attack and parry?

 

No the parry will always equal the attack under non magical circumstances. Without looking them up, which I invite you to do, I am unsure of which magics might temporally alter this axiom. I believe augments might also create a temporary difference.

[HreshtIronBorne]

We play it as just +10% All sword skills. Yes literally all of them, for both attacks and parties. Humakt is the God of Death, his RuneLords are literally called Swords. +10% Sword skill is still probably one of their weakest gift options. 

[DrDave]

So most people read it as a bonus to attack skills?

 

[DrDave]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

We play it as just +10% All sword skills. Yes literally all of them, for both attacks and parties. Humakt is the God of Death, his RuneLords are literally called Swords. +10% Sword skill is still probably one of their weakest gift options. 

What do you think are strongest ones?

[davecake]

45 minutes ago, DrDave said:

What do you think are strongest ones?

For combat, the double damage with sword ones are all incredibly powerful. 

For roleplaying/general utility, Sense Assassin is great. 

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, DrDave said:

So most people read it as a bonus to attack skills?

This kinda tricky. +10% when you attack is what it explicitly says.

However, it's more reasonable to interpret it as one of many, many rules incongruities left over from cut&paste jobs from earlier editions and a substandard (or merely hurried) editing process, and realize that it must surely mean +10% to all Sword skills.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

For combat, the double damage with sword ones are all incredibly powerful. . 

You will probably want to wait until you have a properly powerful magical weapon for it, though.

[davecake]

6 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

You will probably want to wait until you have a properly powerful magical weapon for it, though.

It is how you make a properly powerful magic weapon. Seriously, not many GMs are going to give you a magic weapon that does double damage of any kind on its own. But whether your sword is plain old bronze or proper iron, you are going to want to learn Repair. 

(and I think most GMs would let you change which sword has the magic boost out of combat at a temple service) 

[Akhôrahil]

1 minute ago, davecake said:

It is how you make a properly powerful magic weapon. Seriously, not many GMs are going to give you a magic weapon that does double damage of any kind on its own. But whether your sword is plain old bronze or proper iron, you are going to want to learn Repair. 

Since it's a one-off for a weapon and pretty costly, you wouldn't want to commit until you have a better-than-average sword. Then you take the gift for that sword.

3 minutes ago, davecake said:

But whether your sword is plain old bronze or proper iron, you are going to want to learn Repair. 

Oddly enough, not. Taking that permanent damage to it from Repair - which you don't take from mundane repair - is horrible on a weapon you need to keep forever. Sure, you can have it as a spell for real emergencies, but if you go around casting Repair a lot, you're going to regret it!

1 minute ago, davecake said:

(and I think most GMs would let you change which sword has the magic boost out of combat at a temple service) 

You can do that, but it makes the gift ridiculously powerful and an absolute no-brainer. The risk of losing the weapon or wanting to switch to another weapon later are the only things that keep the gift the slightest reasonable in power level.

[PhilHibbs]

13 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

You will probably want to wait until you have a properly powerful magical weapon for it, though.

It's a nice thing to add to an existing magic weapon, but you might never get one. The Humakti in my game got an heirloom sword with a Strength matrix and +1 HP, and put "+50% HP" and "double damage" on it.

[Akhôrahil]

2 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

It's a nice thing to add to an existing magic weapon, but you might never get one. The Humakti in my game got an heirloom sword with a Strength matrix and +1 HP, and put "+50% HP" and "double damage" on it.

It depends a lot on GM attitude, both to amounts of loot and whether you can buy iron weapons for money. If at all possible, you very very much want an iron weapon first.

[PhilHibbs]

Oh, and on the original question, I take it literally as "+10 to attack", not "+10 to skill". The skill remains unchanged and so goes up through experience more easily if it's under 100 (but what kind of crappy Humakti doesn't start with 100% sword skill, eh).

[davecake]

I don’t think allowing transferring the geas between weapons is ridiculously powerful at all - it’s just not hugely and permanently penalising players for losing a weapon during play (of course it still penalises them in the short term). And most ‘ magic weapons’ from any source except Humakti gifts etc are going to be fairly weak. The best you are likely to get is an iron sword, and that is mostly good defensively (unless you are fighting trolls or elves, obviously). Not that there aren’t a few legendary weapons around (Wrath, the Wind Sword, Ironbreaker etc) but a lot of them are more about a spirit that casts magic rather than a damage boost. 

[Joerg]

56 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Since it's a one-off for a weapon and pretty costly, you wouldn't want to commit until you have a better-than-average sword. Then you take the gift for that sword.

Don't you think that Humakt is granting your character that gift with the intention that your character uses it in the name of his god?

Delaying to allocate that gift feels rather lacking in appreciation.

Besides, what are you doing initiating into the Cult of Humakt and not owning a decent sword?

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Don't you think that Humakt is granting your character that gift with the intention that your character uses it in the name of his god?

Delaying to allocate that gift feels rather lacking in appreciation.

I meant not picking up the gift in the first place until you have a good target sword. No need to drag around geases for no reason. 

3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Besides, what are you doing initiating into the Cult of Humakt and not owning a decent sword?

I'm sure it's decent as in "as good as the baseline stats in the rulebook". But when making a serious commitment to an individual weapon like this, surely it makes sense to start with something that's better than average?

[Akhôrahil]

39 minutes ago, davecake said:

I don’t think allowing transferring the geas between weapons is ridiculously powerful at all - it’s just not hugely and permanently penalising players for losing a weapon during play (of course it still penalises them in the short term). And most ‘ magic weapons’ from any source except Humakti gifts etc are going to be fairly weak. The best you are likely to get is an iron sword, and that is mostly good defensively (unless you are fighting trolls or elves, obviously). Not that there aren’t a few legendary weapons around (Wrath, the Wind Sword, Ironbreaker etc) but a lot of them are more about a spirit that casts magic rather than a damage boost. 

You get a (SPOILERS!) very solid magical sword already in one of the adventures in the Adventures book (although perhaps less than ideal as your Humaktl sword, for maintenance reasons).

Apart from small stuff like crystals and spell matrices, magical swords are surely among the most common magical items found in published adventures?

[Bill the barbarian]

4 hours ago, DrDave said:

So most people read it as a bonus to attack skills?

 

No, really consider it a bonus to all skills with swords. Attack and parry, which for the most part will be the same

[David Scott]

6 hours ago, DrDave said:

So a new character gets the +10% to attack with cult weapons.

It's singular so you need to choose which weapon.

Quote

I assume that is a bonus when you roll an attack, not a 10% rise in skill.  (Especially since a rise in skill would cover parries, which this gift doesn't.)

Given that its says

1. +10% to attack with cult weapon.

2. +20% in a cult skill other than weapon.

to bring it inline with RQGs combined attack and parry skill the first one should read as

1. +10% to a cult weapon skill.

This has been added as a correction to the upcoming Cults of Glorantha.

Edited September 17, 2019 by David Scott
Added correction update

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

I don’t think allowing transferring the geas between weapons is ridiculously powerful at all - it’s just not hugely and permanently penalising players for losing a weapon during play (of course it still penalises them in the short term). And most ‘ magic weapons’ from any source except Humakti gifts etc are going to be fairly weak. The best you are likely to get is an iron sword, and that is mostly good defensively (unless you are fighting trolls or elves, obviously). Not that there aren’t a few legendary weapons around (Wrath, the Wind Sword, Ironbreaker etc) but a lot of them are more about a spirit that casts magic rather than a damage boost. 

From memory, in RQIII, you needed a Divine Intervention to move a gift from one sword to another. I have not checked in RQG (not having the rulebook with me), but I assume the rule is the same.

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Oddly enough, not. Taking that permanent damage to it from Repair - which you don't take from mundane repair - is horrible on a weapon you need to keep forever. Sure, you can have it as a spell for real emergencies, but if you go around casting Repair a lot, you're going to regret it!

The spell is (as I read it) for 'on the fly' fixes. As the item looses permanent HP, you should after that bring it to a proper crafter to recover the lost HP.

[Akhôrahil]

6 minutes ago, Kloster said:

As the item looses permanent HP, you should after that bring it to a proper crafter to recover the lost HP.

This isn't my reading, but it's an interesting question, and matters a ton for the usefulness of Repair.

(I read "permanent" as "can't be fixed".)

[Akhôrahil]

12 minutes ago, Kloster said:

From memory, in RQIII, you needed a Divine Intervention to move a gift from one sword to another. I have not checked in RQG (not having the rulebook with me), but I assume the rule is the same.

Divine Intervention is seriously cheap (1 POW, a few rune points until next day of worship) for a Sword of Humakt, though.

But yeah, either Divine Intervention or perhaps taking an additional Geas could be a reasonable compromise.