The Colymar Campaign and the Star Heart

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, dvdmacateer said:

Where does the idea that Broo males have stingers and that they only target female animals come from?

they don't only target female animals

the original Broo was "they rape women and the un-abortionable monster rips its way out of the womb, killing you". We don't, uh, have that anymore because that is nightmare fuel.

Now they are still horrible monsters, but they have dicks that work like stingers. Anyone gets stung, they get a foetus IN THEIR BODY. You can cut or magic it out. Body horror but rape metaphor.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Atgxtg]

It's sort of the conundrum of putting something that is supposed to be bad into the game, especially as it realted to modern sensibilties.  Broo are despised and feared as monsters for these specific traits and abilities, but because rape is something that people are not comfortable with in the real world, and that has generally targeted one gender, it has become a sensitive issue. And that's not even getting into the disease aspects. It hits a little too close to home for some people's comfort.

Conversely, the cult of Thanatar who decapitate people and enslave their spirits are at least as bad, yet don't upset people as much, because, thankfully,  we don't have a history of something similar happening to people in modern times. At least not to the same extent as rape.

 

 

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

The two posts above pretty much cover it.

They both also touch on the topic of evaluating "problematic" themes in fiction. Certain themes might be worse on paper than others, but when you take into account how they manifest in real life, something that's arguably less horrible on paper can become a lot more iffy for players to navigate.

Compare, for example, the comparison between some evil dark lord who wants to kill everyone and end the universe, versus a society that has a race-based slavery system. Arguably the first one is the worst thing ever, but has no relevant bearing on real life, whereas the latter is something that occured within less than the last two centuries, and has tangible, verifiable ramifications down to this day.

This isn't rocket science or anything, but it's good to keep in mind when worldbuilding, and to allay fears that "political correctness is going mad" or the like.

[Qizilbashwoman]

2 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This isn't rocket science or anything, but it's good to keep in mind when worldbuilding, and to allay fears that "political correctness is going mad" or the like.

It's "the problem with orcs", Glorantha-style.

[JonL]

Yeah, the odds of someone at your gaming table having been a victim of post-decapitation necromantic enslavement are significantly lower than the chance that someone has experienced sexual assault. Common decency should take that into consideration.

The development of things like X-Cards, and agreed upon Lines & Veils (possibly even to the extent of players submitting the latter anonymously) are of great value for this sort of thing. I mostly play with people I've been close to for decades such that we all trust one another and have a good handle on one another's boundaries and needs. When playing with people you don't know as intimately though, addressing content expectations up front and employing common sense safety tools is a wise practice.

When I've (rarely) used Broos in game, I told the players that their characters know them as malevolent disease monsters that reproduce like parasitic wasps crossed with Giger aliens, and left it at that. In character, an NPC might say something like, "<grimly>Broos did this.<spits> When we find them, no quarter, no mercy, and no one left behind."  

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

they don't only target female animals

the original Broo was "they rape women and the un-abortionable monster rips its way out of the womb, killing you". We don't, uh, have that anymore because that is nightmare fuel.

That's not the original write-up of the broo. RQ2 provides only the game stats.

Borderlands provides the long write-up of the species, and it specifies that the broo larva breeds in the viscera of the host (Borderlands and Beyond p.39), after engaging in sodomitic practices (sidebar p.37 ibidem).

Quote

Now they are still horrible monsters, but they have dicks that work like stingers. Anyone gets stung, they get a foetus IN THEIR BODY. You can cut or magic it out. Body horror but rape metaphor.

No subcutaneous implantation (that's reserved for Pierson's Puppeteers), but sodomy - presumably non-consensual.

Sodomy, when applied to human-human interactions, doesn't usually include vaginal penetration.

The write-up talks about procreation with herd beasts and remains silent about biological interactions with humans (other than eating them the same as they do steeds and other herd beasts).

All the rest is the dirty minds of players.

For a tasteless subject, the write-up is fairly tastefully worded.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Joerg

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, JonL said:

Yeah, the odds of someone at your gaming table having been a victim of post-decapitation necromantic enslavement are significantly lower than the chance that someone has experienced sexual assault. Common decency should take that into consideration.

Exactly. That said, somebody might not not be forthcoming about everything bad that has ever happened to them or what might bother them. So it's not always a case of a caullous or unthinking GM, but could be a case where a Gm unknowing hit too close to home.

The game and style of the campaign being run matter too. For instance if playing a game like Call of Cthulhu then the possibility of someone getting mauled by a werewolf of other monster and the PCs coming across a mauled, half eaten body is a possibility. Now if a player had an actual horrific experience in the past involving a half eaten human body, animal attack or cannibalism, well that's not something they could reasonably expect the GM to know about. 

In play in something actually upsets one of my players, as in real life upset not, "you'll killing my character" upset, then I won't go there, provided I'm made aware of it. Depending on the group sensibilities and  unpleasantness such as Broos behavior can be glossed over, handled with euphemisms such as "have his way with" or skipped. No GM should really be trying to really upset a player. Add atmosphere to an adventure or make a bad guy stand out, sure but we shouldn't try to give players nightmares.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Atgxtg

[Ufnal]

6 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Compare, for example, the comparison between some evil dark lord who wants to kill everyone and end the universe, versus a society that has a race-based slavery system. Arguably the first one is the worst thing ever, but has no relevant bearing on real life, whereas the latter is something that occured within less than the last two centuries, and has tangible, verifiable ramifications down to this day.

This isn't rocket science or anything, but it's good to keep in mind when worldbuilding, and to allay fears that "political correctness is going mad" or the like.

Wait, so Fonrit is getting changed too?

[Sir_Godspeed]

56 minutes ago, Ufnal said:

Wait, so Fonrit is getting changed too?

Probably not, but there are probably some hand grenades in there.

[JonL]

Fornrit is the kind of thing you'd want to talk through first. I was once in a historical Rome game where a player quit after being squicked out when another player's character (a Patrician) casually bought some slaves to bulk up his retinue. No rage outs, just a "You know, I think this game is not for me. You guys have fun." note between sessions.

[Minion1stClass]

10 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

 but because rape is something that people are not comfortable with in the real world, and that has generally targeted one gender, it has become a sensitive issue. 

 

 

Poor wording choice. It has not become a sensitive issue. It always has been. It has just finally been more publicly acknowledged that it is such and people should be more considerate of those who might have been through it without them having to broadcast such to earn sympathy and consideration.

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Minion1stClass said:

Poor wording choice. It has not become a sensitive issue. It always has been. It has just finally been more publicly acknowledged that it is such and people should be more considerate of those who might have been through it without them having to broadcast such to earn sympathy and consideration.

Agreed poor wording choice. In fact I'd say I was off on intent there too. At least as far as that sentence goes, not in the over all effect. What I should have stressed more was that unlike the various other horrible things that can happen in RQ and other RPGs rape and forms of sexual abuse are something that sadly, were more likely to have happened in real life to a player or someone they know, and therefore Broo could hit too close to home. 

It's not that it is worse than the other horrible things that monsters and villains do in RPGs and fiction, it's just that this is something that is more common in the real world, and thus can tap into a pre-existing trauma, although the Broos version is now more like an alien infestation that actual rape. Still the sense of violation is there. 

[soltakss]

On 11/4/2019 at 5:45 PM, Joerg said:

Borderlands provides the long write-up of the species, and it specifies that the broo larva breeds in the viscera of the host (Borderlands and Beyond p.39), after engaging in sodomitic practices (sidebar p.37 ibidem).

Broobirth happens with regular sex as well. What makes it harder to understand is that buggery also includes sex with animals and, as sodomy and buggery are generally accepted to be the same, by extension so does sodomy. Broos don't care which hole they go into, nor what species they love, they are the ultimate spreaders of Free Love in Glorantha.

A female broo who gets pregnant always has a Broobirth, no matter who the father was, whether broo or non-broo.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Some of this was a bit confusing, since "sodomy" usually refers to bestiality in Norwegian - but then I realized it mostly refers to anal penetration in English.

[soltakss]

33 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Some of this was a bit confusing, since "sodomy" usually refers to bestiality in Norwegian - but then I realized it mostly refers to anal penetration in English.

Exactly.

In English, sodomy and buggery are mostly the same, but buggery and bestiality can be the same. There's a lot of overlap.

Where else could we have a serious discussion about buggery, sodomy and bestiality in all seriousness in a RPG context?

[Qizilbashwoman]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Broos don't care which hole they go into

they don't even care if there's a hole, that's the entire point of it

[Joerg]

43 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

they don't even care if there's a hole, that's the entire point of it

Even the stove broo's "mother" had openings their broo parent was using. (I don't recall whether the stove was supposed to be cast iron or copper, but this broo was reported by Sandy Petersen. To stay alive, the broo had to keep the fire in its belly running, leading to a rather vegetarian diet.)

Holes are easily made with spears or knives. The broo reproductive organ doesn't get an attack or a damage stat assigned in RQ, unless a Chaos Feature warrants such.

[Sir_Godspeed]

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

Even the stove broo's "mother" had openings their broo parent was using. (I don't recall whether the stove was supposed to be cast iron or copper, but this broo was reported by Sandy Petersen. To stay alive, the broo had to keep the fire in its belly running, leading to a rather vegetarian diet.)

Holes are easily made with spears or knives. The broo reproductive organ doesn't get an attack or a damage stat assigned in RQ, unless a Chaos Feature warrants such.

I think the point Qizil was making was about "holes" in the sense of natural bodily openings. Yes, they can and will make their own if need be.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I think the point Qizil was making was about "holes" in the sense of natural bodily openings. Yes, they can and will make their own if need be.

The point of my post was to clarify my opinion that the point of the broo reproductive organ doesn't have the capacity to pierce skin or hide. From a reproductive point of view, an insertion that may cause the death of the host before the larva is ready to eat its way out of the host is detrimental, which makes a lateral insertion of the larva into the intestinal cavity an unsuitable reproductive strategy.

[Qizilbashwoman]

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

which makes a lateral insertion of the larva into the intestinal cavity an unsuitable reproductive strategy

think of a botfly crossed with a fetus. (now cry.)

i don't think having a broo growing in your anus and blocking the exit is going to keep you alive. if it's under your skin and parasitising you that's a different story.

 

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

think of a botfly crossed with a fetus. (now cry.)

i don't think having a broo growing in your anus and blocking the exit is going to keep you alive. if it's under your skin and parasitising you that's a different story.

Not in the anus, but in the intestinal cavity. The larva first grows as a parasite to the host, until it has ripened enough to feed on meat - that's when it begins to eat its way out of the belly, Alien-style.

Whether face-hugger or bestiality, the larva will have somehow penetrated the intestine into the cavity, leeched upon the blood flow of the host and presumably using it for its waste products, too.

The broo larva still has to beat the diseases its progenitor likely was passing on to the host to kill off the host. It will likely inherit those diseases.

[Akhôrahil]

What is the gestation period for broo larva? This must surely have been defined somewhere?

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

What is the gestation period for broo larva? This must surely have been defined somewhere?

2 seasons and 1D8 weeks, according to Borderlands and Beyond p.39. It is really the defining text for broos.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

2 seasons and 1D8 weeks, according to Borderlands and Beyond p.39. It is really the defining text for broos.

Interesting, that’s a lot longer than I would have thought. Thanks!

[Atgxtg]

On 11/4/2019 at 10:45 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

They both also touch on the topic of evaluating "problematic" themes in fiction. Certain themes might be worse on paper than others, but when you take into account how they manifest in real life, something that's arguably less horrible on paper can become a lot more iffy for players to navigate.

And, of course Your Problematic May Vary. That is thing that might be problematic for some people won't be for others.