Blending RW and Glorantha

[Ali the Helering]

I just had an interesting experience of opening an e-mail, and finding one of my congregation asking if I was a pagan!  Since I use Blogger for posting Bible studies as well as matters Gloranthan it carries my user name.  He had googled Helering, and was now concerned for me....

[Nevermet]

Over on a FB group, I just got done babbling about how some theological concepts apply to heroquesting, so... I sympathize.

[g33k]

So, this "concerned" person ... Tracked down the Gloranthan reference as "worshiper of Heler" and didn't track the context as a game?  Or is one of those fundamentalist- / BADD- / ChickTract- / etc-inspired sorts,  who equate D&D/RPGs with Satanism/Paganism?  Or...,?

[Ali the Helering]

10 minutes ago, g33k said:

So, this "concerned" person ... Tracked down the Gloranthan reference as "worshiper of Heler" and didn't track the context as a game?  Or is one of those fundamentalist- / BADD- / ChickTract- / etc-inspired sorts,  who equate D&D/RPGs with Satanism/Paganism?  Or...,?

Actually well educated and reasonably rational individual, so it came as a real surprise.  However, he is a recent addition to the church and came from one with a less open-minded tradition and more rural setting. 

I think that he didn't grasp the context and had a knee jerk reaction. Unfortunate, but by no means unique! 

[Darius West]

Well... This is not quite what I expected to find when I came to this Forum Topic.  I was under the misapprehension that it would relate to issues of real world info translating into Glorantha, and when mythology should over-rule RL info.  Instead I get people getting harassed for religious beliefs they don't even adhere to by religious fanatics.  This is actually pretty bad.  Perhaps someone needs to educate people about what the 4th Amendment of the US Bill of Rights says?

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Actually well educated and reasonably rational individual, so it came as a real surprise.  However, he is a recent addition to the church and came from one with a less open-minded tradition and more rural setting. 

I think that he didn't grasp the context and had a knee jerk reaction. Unfortunate, but by no means unique! 

If I may -- diffidently* -- offer a suggestion:  it may be worth further/deeper engagement.

Not just a minimal reassurance, but an effort to genuinely educate about RPGs, their fundamental innocuousness, their uses & usefulness, the RPG-ignorance of most critics, the degree to which RPGs are maligned, etc...  I know, I know:  being an educator/ambassador of RPGs is Not Your Job.

In your position, I'd be looking at it more as self-defense.  Many "knee-jerk reactions" come from a place of deep personal/emotional truth, regardless of objective reality.  This reaction sounds alarmingly like something that may linger & fester as distrust (at least); until / unless brought out to light & addressed.

Respectfully Yrs, &c...

 

 

* ok, I admit... I'm not actually very diffident.  But I'm 100% cognizant that this is your life not mine, so it's really none of my business; and that you undoubtedly have dozens of other factors and issues that bear upon the situation, which did not come out in your brief notes here!

[Ali the Helering]

8 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Well... This is not quite what I expected to find when I came to this Forum Topic.  I was under the misapprehension that it would relate to issues of real world info translating into Glorantha, and when mythology should over-rule RL info.  Instead I get people getting harassed for religious beliefs they don't even adhere to by religious fanatics.  This is actually pretty bad.  Perhaps someone needs to educate people about what the 4th Amendment of the US Bill of Rights says?

Only if they were Americans would that be applicable.  Thank you for your concern, but I wasn't being harassed, even if it might seem that way. He was showing misplaced concern for his minister's well being. 

When working as denominational advisor on 'indigenous religions' I was privileged to be welcome at pagan moots - a fact he readily accepted. 

[Ali the Helering]

1 minute ago, g33k said:

If I may -- diffidently* -- offer a suggestion:  it may be worth further/deeper engagement.

Not just a minimal reassurance, but an effort to genuinely educate about RPGs, their fundamental innocuousness, their uses & usefulness, the RPG-ignorance of most critics, the degree to which RPGs are maligned, etc...  I know, I know:  being an educator/ambassador of RPGs is Not Your Job.

In your position, I'd be looking at it more as self-defense.  Many "knee-jerk reactions" come from a place of deep personal/emotional truth, regardless of objective reality.  This reaction sounds alarmingly like something that may linger & fester as distrust (at least); until / unless brought out to light & addressed.

Respectfully Yrs, &c...

 

 

* ok, I admit... I'm not actually very diffident.  But I'm 100% cognizant that this is your life not mine, so it's really none of my business; and that you undoubtedly have dozens of other factors and issues that bear upon the situation, which did not come out in your brief notes here!

No hassle, I am very happy to do so. My predecessor is an 'evangelist' for the virtues of D&D and WH40K, so it isn't RPGs that are the problem anyway. 

More a matter of the inability to distinguish RW from fantasy religion. Of course, that could be seen as Greg's genius. 

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

More a matter of the inability to distinguish RW from fantasy religion. Of course, that could be seen as Greg's genius. 

Ummm, aren't the Gloranthan beliefs based on real world beliefs?  Although Heler is a Gloranthan god, it wouldn't surprise me if there's some rain god out there in RW that would heed the call if it was put out... 

Out of curiosity, how was this "concern" phrased??? Especially given the comments above above being in pagan moots...

[Ali the Helering]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Ummm, aren't the Gloranthan beliefs based on real world beliefs?  Although Heler is a Gloranthan god, it wouldn't surprise me if there's some rain god out there in RW that would heed the call if it was put out... 

Out of curiosity, how was this "concern" phrased??? Especially given the comments above above being in pagan moots...

Indeed the RW is the model, but Glorantha a different overall picture.  Whilst Heler has similarities to some RW deities, I don't think any is a direct parallel. 

The concern was vaguely phrased, so that it was not directly offensive. I was reassured by his response to my remarks, since tolerance of Paganism is by no means universal. When delivering my course on 'Experiencing Faith' it was often the area which met with the most prejudice. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

Since Ali took this in a good fashion, I don't see the point in taking offense on their behalf. 

It does remind me of someone I knew who read LotR and Wheel of Time, but refused to read Harry Potter, because in the two former, magic was stated as coming from a monotheistic creator god, while the latter was unspecified and potentially pagan or satanic. 

 

[davecake]

Of course, many people in the Gloranthan community do identify as pagan or neo-pagan or other forms of minority spiritual tradition, and bring that perspective to their understanding of Glorantha too. For some, the boundary isn't even that clear - gaming is another way to explore some important spiritual ideas.  

Starting with Greg. 

[Ali the Helering]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Since Ali took this in a good fashion, I don't see the point in taking offense on their behalf. 

It does remind me of someone I knew who read LotR and Wheel of Time, but refused to read Harry Potter, because in the two former, magic was stated as coming from a monotheistic creator god, while the latter was unspecified and potentially pagan or satanic. 

 

There are times my co-religionists make me weep. I knew a minister who held a book-burning of Harry Potter novels. He didn't even recognise it as intolerance. 

[Al.]

I honestly thought that this was going to be a plan to mix RingWorld and Glorantha when I read the title.

[Al.]

5 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

There are times my co-religionists make me weep. I knew a minister who held a book-burning of Harry Potter novels. He didn't even recognise it as intolerance. 

Richard Herring has a (foul mouthed, obviously) routine about the relative evils perpetrated upon children by JK Rowling and some members of the Catholic Church.

[Ali the Helering]

Just now, Al. said:

I honestly thought that this was going to be a plan to mix RingWorld and Glorantha when I read the title.

That too. 

Truestone is scrith. The road to the moon is the arch. The Hungry Plateau is labeled in one map as 'the Lift', presumably the equivalent of the Map of Mars..... 

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

There are times my co-religionists make me weep. I knew a minister who held a book-burning of Harry Potter novels. He didn't even recognise it as intolerance. 

That's what's in video gaming circles is called a "big oof."

[Shiningbrow]

Many a year (decade) ago, one of the guys invited a girl from his church group along, because of the "devil's work" mentality.

I think she got over it pretty quickly...

[Borygon]

You should care more about your Opsec.

Think about it, if your identity can be linked like this by pure accident, then how much hostile actors can know about you just from cursory glance at your online profiles?

This might not look like a big issue but luck is the art of preparing yourself  for the unexpected, and having multiple internet identities not linked with each other can prevent you from someone ordering 16 tons of coal to your home after a bad internet argument (I have done that before.)

[Sir_Godspeed]

35 minutes ago, Borygon said:

You should care more about your Opsec.

Think about it, if your identity can be linked like this by pure accident, then how much hostile actors can know about you just from cursory glance at your online profiles?

This might not look like a big issue but luck is the art of preparing yourself  for the unexpected, and having multiple internet identities not linked with each other can prevent you from someone ordering 16 tons of coal to your home after a bad internet argument (I have done that before.)

You have ordered...?

[g33k]

4 hours ago, Borygon said:

... someone ordering 16 tons of coal to your home after a bad internet argument (I have done that before.)

That was you???!?

Damn... thanks, man!  That was a cold winter.  Everyone else was spending hundreds a month on their heating bills.  Mine was free, and I helped out quite a few friends in the neighborhood, too!

 

 

n.b:

🤣

[Bill the barbarian]

On 5/10/2020 at 12:53 PM, Darius West said:

Well... This is not quite what I expected to find when I came to this Forum Topic.

It is a bit of a surprise, I came cause it was Ali who started the thread, and he always has something of interest to say, and has a tolerant heart in how he says it!