Thomas Covenant conversion ?

[Agentorange]

had a quick look in the search engine without finding this, so.....

Like most people  ( I suspect ) I have a tendency when reading SF or fantasy to mentally start statting up the creatures and monsters  therein and i've often wondered if anybody did so for the Thomas Covenant books. I'm pretty sure White Dwarf did a D'n'D conversion in one issue, but did anybody ever do an RQ version ? . l always wondered how to do the Ur Vile wedge formation with the focused magic. I figured there'd be some mileage in looking at the CoC group casting rules and adapting them in some way. But wondered what other people thought.

No particular reason ,just idle curiousity.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Agentorange

[smiorgan]

1 hour ago, Agentorange said:

had a quick look in the search engine without finding this, so.....

Like most people  ( I suspect ) I have a tendency when reading SF or fantasy to mentally start statting up the creatures and monsters  therein and i've often wondered if anybody did so for the Thomas Covenant books. I'm pretty sure White Dwarf did a D'n'D conversion in one issue, but did anybody ever do an RQ version ? . l always wondered how to do the Ur Vile wedge formation with the focused magic. I figured there'd be some mileage in looking at the CoC group casting rules and adapting them in some way. But wondered what other people thought.

No particular reason ,just idle curiousity.

Never heard of anything Thomas Covenant related. I wonder how fit for an RPG adaptation the books are, but I'm intrigued.

I have a strange relationship with the books. I was immediately sucked into the first book of the series but then I never managed to finish the second. I found the character of Thomas Covenant quite interesting - not necessarily likeable, being a deeply flawed individual - but interesting for sure. In contrast, I did not like the world building, which seemed pretty weak and did not really come alive.

 

[Agentorange]

6 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Never heard of anything Thomas Covenant related. I wonder how fit for an RPG adaptation the books are, but I'm intrigued.

I don't think as a whole it would lend itself particularly well as a RPG setting, some of the ideas would make good adaptations. I've already mentioned the group magic of the Ur Viles  who also seem to have a fair bit of skill at alchemy etc. The Forestals are interesting druid/genius loci sort of figures and there's all sorts of other other bits and pieces that are cool. But overall like you I wonder how good a fit it'd be.

And lets face it if the players were really to get into character they'd end up so angst ridden and emotionally overwrought they'd need months of counselling between each game session 😁

[Bill the barbarian]

12 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

And lets face it if the players were really to get into character they'd end up so angst ridden and emotionally overwrought they'd need months of counselling between each game session 😁

Yep, literature to slit your wrists by.

[Agentorange]

13 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Yep, literature to slit your wrists by.

I've read the first and second chronicles but gave up midway through the last series. Basically it felt as though the last 4 books could be summed up in one line:

"Linden Avery whines a lot "
 

That's your review  right there 😄

[Akhôrahil]

Thomas Covenant needs to be played by a player who really doesn’t want to be there and adamantly rejects the entire premise of the game.

[Joerg]

Somebody talking about me behind my back?

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Agentorange said:

I've read the first and second chronicles but gave up midway through the last series. Basically it felt as though the last 4 books could be summed up in one line:

"Linden Avery whines a lot "

Same here.  And they both whine a lot.

10 hours ago, smiorgan said:

In contrast, I did not like the world building, which seemed pretty weak and did not really come alive.

It is weak. 

[soltakss]

 

Spoiler

But ur-viles were cool, as was a giant purifying himself in lava.

 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

 

  Hide contents

But ur-viles were cool, as was a giant purifying himself in lava.

 

Yes, and there are still a lot of interesting ideas to mine from it.  I'm actually in the middle of re-reading the 2nd series at the moment.  Some of the Sunbane effects I think work well for Chaos nests (or for thinking about the Blood Sun to come), the Ravers as possessing demons, or the Elohim as a species one might find in the Skydome or the Godtime.

[Ali the Helering]

15 hours ago, smiorgan said:

I did not like the world building, which seemed pretty weak and did not really come alive.

It is intentionally weak and 2D, because it is an Otherworld experience, with each visit to the Land an extended HeroQuest.                                                                                       Back in my pre-Runequest AD&D (spit!) days, I attempted to use the White Dwarf 21 write-up of a rhadamaerl for a character, but with limited success.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, Ali the Helering said:

It is intentionally weak and 2D, because it is an Otherworld experience, with each visit to the Land an extended HeroQuest.                                                                                       Back in my pre-Runequest AD&D (spit!) days, I attempted to use the White Dwarf 21 write-up of a rhadamaerl for a character, but with limited success.

Now Ali, I would have thought you to be more tolerant than that!

[Ali the Helering]

Just now, Bill the barbarian said:

Now Ali, I would have thought you to be more tolerant than that!

Ah, how kind.  Ah, how wrong!  I am lobbying for the next Methodist Service Book to contain a Rite of Execration for anything touched by Gygax Dragonlord.🤪

[Agentorange]

2 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

                                                                                       Back in my pre-Runequest AD&D (spit!) days, I attempted to use the White Dwarf 21 write-up of a rhadamaerl for a character, but with limited success.

Ah, I knew I'd seen it in White Dwarf somewhere !

[Agentorange]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

 

  Hide contents

But ur-viles were cool, as was a giant purifying himself in lava.

 

Indeed, there was a fair bit of cool stuff in there. I quite enjoyed the first and second series, yes the main characters were unrelentingly morose but at least you were given context for that. But the last series I just couldn't hack, endless grey whiny misery for page after page. In the end I gave up and read a book about historical plagues for a bit of light relief.....

[Ali the Helering]

26 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

Indeed, there was a fair bit of cool stuff in there. I quite enjoyed the first and second series, yes the main characters were unrelentingly morose but at least you were given context for that. But the last series I just couldn't hack, endless grey whiny misery for page after page. In the end I gave up and read a book about historical plagues for a bit of light relief.....

At least it prepared you for these recent months of unremitting light and laughter...

[svensson]

You know, I tried reading Tommy Crybaby and His Whiny Little Bitch Adventures three times.

I made it through the first trilogy and started the second.... once. With effort. But after awhile the Mea Culpa Flagellation Festival got to be entirely too much.

I liked the Bannor character and the Sea-Giants subculture though, but Thomas was one of the most dislikeable protagonists ever.

Edited June 10, 2021 by svensson

[Ali the Helering]

3 minutes ago, svensson said:

You know, I tried reading Tommy Crybaby and His Whiny Little Bitch Adventures three times.

I made it through the first trilogy and started the second.... once. With effort. But after awhile, the Mea Culpa Flagellation Festival got to be entirely too much.

I liked the Bannor character and the Sea-Giants subculture though, but Thomas was one of the most dislikeable protagonists ever.

I think this may say something about Donaldson's vision of himself and his youth in India, with his father as a doctor of those with leprosy.  I say this as someone who was born in Myanmar and whose sisters grew up there with our father as Chairman of two 'leper colonies' as they were called.  I have seen the aftermath of body horror on young children.   

The thing I have real issues with is that some critics have praised him for his 'fast pace', while I find the Linden books d-r-a-a-a-a-g out interminably.

His vision of the Land, though, is glorious.

[svensson]

2 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

I think this may say something about Donaldson's vision of himself and his youth in India, with his father as a doctor of those with leprosy.  I say this as someone who was born in Myanmar and whose sisters grew up there with our father as Chairman of two 'leper colonies' as they were called.  I have seen the aftermath of body horror on young children.   

The thing I have real issues with is that some critics have praised him for his 'fast pace', while I find the Linden books d-r-a-a-a-a-g out interminably.

His vision of the Land, though, is glorious.

That's an interesting personal background. It's not at all common to meet someone from a G8 nation who's actually been to the 'bottom 8' and seen what the world looks like without electricity and fresh water.

I once knew a US Navy doctor who worked on the Hansen's colony on Molokai, HI, for a few years. Thank God the disease is far more treatable than it used to be.

When I served in Central America in the way back, my unit medics treated a lot of people in the villages with small pox and similar curable diseases. It wasn't that the cures weren't available, it was that the governments were too corrupt and banal to actually get the medicines [supplied by USAMRIID for free!] out to the campesinos who needed it.

While I can see what Donaldson was trying to do with his depiction, the character of Thomas Covenant just didn't seem to have many redeeming features. The character was so full of self-pity and self loathing that you almost rooted for him to just jump from a cliff, kill himself, and finally STFU.

But then, I've been told I have 'empathy issues' 😁

[Ali the Helering]

44 minutes ago, svensson said:

While I can see what Donaldson was trying to do with his depiction, the character of Thomas Covenant just didn't seem to have many redeeming features. The character was so full of self-pity and self loathing that you almost rooted for him to just jump from a cliff, kill himself, and finally STFU.

But then, I've been told I have 'empathy issues' 😁

No, I agree with you!  I think that Donaldson may be transferring his empathy issues to Covenant.  You seem amazingly sane in the way you have described your self-awareness.😇

[Akhôrahil]

59 minutes ago, svensson said:

While I can see what Donaldson was trying to do with his depiction, the character of Thomas Covenant just didn't seem to have many redeeming features. The character was so full of self-pity and self loathing that you almost rooted for him to just jump from a cliff, kill himself, and finally STFU.

But then, I've been told I have 'empathy issues' 😁

I believe the point is that TC really would love to give himself over to the Land, but he knows what will happen in the real world if he lets up his self-discipline - he will get sloppy with his medical condition, and then he will rot away. So he has to distance himself, and he does it by being an asshole, but in turn he hates himself for that.

I mean, it’s not any less whiny because of it, but he kinda has his reasons.

[svensson]

2 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

No, I agree with you!  I think that Donaldson may be transferring his empathy issues to Covenant.  You seem amazingly sane in the way you have described your self-awareness.😇

Well, let's just say that I don't much care what happens to an adult in the inevitable event that they pay for their stupidity, be that jail, disfigurement, or any other 'Darwin' situation. When somebody 'dies stupid' I've been known to laugh my ass off... on a couple of occasions right in front of their family. I mean, I'm an alcoholic in recovery but when Amy Winehouse went Tango Uniform, my first comment was, 'And who didn't see this one coming?' As a rule I could do without about 60% of humanity [including people I know] and I'm a little disappointed that COVID didn't do more damage.

About the only people I automatically give the benefit of the doubt to are children. Everyone else could get hit with a fire truck so far as I care. And I'm not sparing myself the rod on this thing either. One of the few 'words of wisdom' that I actually originated myself goes something like this:

"On any given day, YOU are the idiot that makes someone else's life worse. No matter how reasonable, polite, 'woke', or courteous you are, you are still as likely to be the knucklehead making things harder as anyone."

[edUrVile]

No one would play Thomas Covenant. The setting itself is great though. You should be able to play a player who has leprosy and then suddenly doesn't have leprosy.

[Malin]

Look, some of us love unrelenting misery....

 

 

[Ali the Helering]

Unfortunately, as with so many works of fantasy literature, the lack of attention to demographics destroys it as a setting for serious campaign gaming.  That is why I suggested it as an 'otherworld' or 'heroquest' setting from the RW.