Ruin Masters from RiotMinds

[smiorgan]

OK, I got this one - reading the PDF and waiting for the hardback: 

https://riotminds.se/ruinmasters/

I am quite pleased of what I am reading and the art is gorgeous.

Since the discussion around the Drachar och Demoner family is usually quite confusing (at least for non-Scandinavians) here is some info on this particular game:

- It's CLEARLY a game in the BRP lineage: it's d100 roll under, classless, armor absorbs damage, rolled hit locations, it even uses the Resistance Table. But it's not pure BRP.

-  WHFRP is also a declared influence. And I do see some similarities with WHFRP2: it uses only d10s, characteristics are 3d10 (edit: 2d10+10, in fact).

- It's not an English translation of Drachar og Demoner 2016 (a look at the character sheet is sufficient to see how different the two games are), though it's somehow a sister project to it, apparently.

- It's not related with Trudvang Chronicles. 

-It's very minimalist. 4 characteristics, 6 skills.

- It's designed for hexcrawling and dungeon crawling (it uses hexes in dungeons as well). It has lots of tables for random exploration.

- It has its own setting (Caldarox) which is a post-apocalyptic fantasy world where the secret of magic has been lost, and it makes a lot of sense to go dungeon delving in search of magic artifacts. The setting is quite detailed.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by smiorgan

[smiorgan]

Here's three blog posts that I've found about Ruin Masters:

About the Kickstarter (not very interesting as of now):

https://yawningportal.org/ruin-masters-by-riotminds/

About character creation (quite informative):

https://yawningportal.org/first-look-at-ruin-masters-by-riotminds-character-creation/

About modes of play (also quite interesting):

https://yawningportal.org/ruin-masters-modes-of-play/

 

[smiorgan]

An this is a review on RPG.net:

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/18/18979.phtml

 

[smiorgan]

Behold Furfax the Rogue, my first attempt at a Ruins Masters character. Strong willed but physically weak, Furfax is a local con-man. Since he does not have the required Physique of 18, Furfax wields his dagger and throws knives at -3%, for a grand modified skill of 17% and 19% respectively.

Honestly, Furfax reminds me of the puniest Stormbringer characters I have ever rolled - you know those Orgien peasants, Nadsokorian beggars or Yurite tribesmen...  

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by smiorgan

[Mugen]

Note that, according to one of the pages you linked, characteristics are rolled using 2D10+10, and not 3D10, which may explain in part why your character seems so weak.

https://yawningportal.org/first-look-at-ruin-masters-by-riotminds-character-creation/

But even with this fix, skill base values are very low. 21% on average, with 70% to distribute, and a (very rare) 70% maximum.

[smiorgan]

5 hours ago, Mugen said:

Note that, according to one of the pages you linked, characteristics are rolled using 2D10+10, and not 3D10, which may explain in part why your character seems so weak.

https://yawningportal.org/first-look-at-ruin-masters-by-riotminds-character-creation/

But even with this fix, skill base values are very low. 21% on average, with 70% to distribute, and a (very rare) 70% maximum.

You are correct. And, in fact, I did roll 2d10+10, but I was quite unlucky with Physique (3+2+10) and a bit below average with Intelligence (3+5+10). 

[yojimbo]

The bestiary has just kickstarted.

[smiorgan]

In RM criticals (perfect rolls) are fixed at 01-03 and fumbles (critical failures) at 98-00.

There are random tables of effects  for both in spellcasting.

Damage rolls have their own "crit" mechanics with explosive d10s. Roll again and add on a 10.

I don't speak Swedish, but I've found enough scraps of info in English to understand that some of these mechanics (explosive rolls, spellcasting tables) were first introduced in Drachar og Demoner 2016. In the Swedish game these were on top of a more standard BRP engine, which ultimately derives from the original Magic World (Worlds of Wonder). 

When they set to develop Ruin Masters for the English speaking market they left out many legacy aspects but kept these "new" mechanics.

 

[Rich Tom]

So what do you all think? Could this be a game that appeals to old Stormbringer/ Magic World lags, who sadly miss our favourite game, or is it too far away in gaming feel? 

[smiorgan]

On 9/13/2021 at 9:22 PM, Rich Tom said:

So what do you all think? Could this be a game that appeals to old Stormbringer/ Magic World lags, who sadly miss our favourite game, or is it too far away in gaming feel? 

It could remind you of Magic World, yes. And in some ways it's what MW could  have been but never was: clean layout, evocative art with a classic fantasy feel, a fully developed setting. But it's much more streamlined than MW (6 skills only!) and with a pretty limited magic system. And it's in many ways its own thing: it's geared towards sandbox play and offers pretty extensive hexcrawling rules.

Better to consider it a separate game in the extended BRP family...

Edited September 15, 2021 by smiorgan

[Lloyd Dupont]

What's wrong with Magic World?
It's pretty clean I thought ... 😮
(TBH I don't play Magic Word exactly, but I am inspired by it, even for my -still work in progress - scifi settings 😮 )

Edited September 15, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[NickMiddleton]

5 hours ago, smiorgan said:

It could remind you of Magic World, yes. And in some ways it's what MW could  have been but never was: clean layout, evocative art with a classic fantasy feel, a fully developed setting…

1 hour ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

What's wrong with Magic World?
It's pretty clean I thought ... 😮
(TBH I don't play Magic Word exactly, but I am inspired by it, even for my -still work in progress - scifi settings 😮 )

Smiorgan can obviously speak for themselves, but the three things I’ve emphasised from their post are the most common criticisms of Magic World, and all have substance. The published layout is poor; not terrible, but compared to the compact elegance of the original Elric! it’s disappointingly flabby, unnecessarily inflating the page count at the least. It re-uses a lot of art from previous publications, and whilst much of it is perfectly fine b&w work, there’s no real coherence to the art direction, nor does it really align with the broader tone of the text. The Southern Reaches setting in Magic World was always intended as a sample, an example of what could be done with the game: some (perhaps many) prefer to have a specific setting for a game. *shrug* 

[Lloyd Dupont]

so.. critic is art with the book and lack of setting?

ha well, no wonder I didnt noticed, I dont care much about both of those! ^_^

[Rich Tom]

 

16 hours ago, smiorgan said:

It could remind you of Magic World, yes. And in some ways it's what MW could  have been but never was: clean layout, evocative art with a classic fantasy feel, a fully developed setting. But it's much more streamlined than MW (6 skills only!) and with a pretty limited magic system. And it's in many ways its own thing: it's geared towards sandbox play and offers pretty extensive hexcrawling rules.

Better to consider it a separate game in the extended BRP family...

Thanks smiorgan.

My attraction to MW was and is, a lot of Magic, quite a few monsters and that high Fantasy feel, with competent characters that were interesting to play on their first adventure, in a solid D100 BRP mechanic. I think that maybe I'll give Ruin Masters a look. You never know, I may like it.

[smiorgan]

On 9/15/2021 at 6:36 PM, Rich Tom said:

 

Thanks smiorgan.

My attraction to MW was and is, a lot of Magic, quite a few monsters and that high Fantasy feel, with competent characters that were interesting to play on their first adventure, in a solid D100 BRP mechanic. I think that maybe I'll give Ruin Masters a look. You never know, I may like it.

I don't know:

Magic - RM has a limited number of spells, think more of the original Magic World from Worlds of Wonder, than the Elric derived Magic World, which certainly has many more. Moreover RM has a very specific assumption about spells: spells are only in magic objects from before the cataclysm (The Superflux), which you find in dungeons (think RQ spell matrices).

Monsters- RM has 15 monsters, classic creatures, with a few variants. They are well done, but Magic World has many more. A RW bestiary is being kickstarted now.

EDIT: RM however has a huge (Elric! style) table with about 90 "simple monsters" (e.g. giant animals, vermin swarms) and non player characters.

Competent Characters. RM characters have much less characterization than in MW. They are quick and simple and ready to go to the dungeon.

Edited September 17, 2021 by smiorgan

[smiorgan]

On 9/15/2021 at 12:24 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

so.. critic is art with the book and lack of setting?

ha well, no wonder I didnt noticed, I dont care much about both of those! ^_^

Speaking as someone who owns Elric! and has played the heck out of it, my dissatisfaction with Magic World is that it was a very good idea badly executed (for reasons that I understand to be largely independent from the will of the main editor).

The bad execution amounts to 5 things, in order of importance:

1- Typos galore, and editorial  inconsistencies. E.g. The weapons table makes me cry.

2- Flabby layout

3- Inconsistent reused art, and some new art which is quite bad

4- A few (not many) small ill advised rules changes (spell memorization and free INT, changes to High Magic/ Eastern Magic) or bugs resulting from combination of sources (unclarity about summoning elementals).

5- The setting could have benefited of a bit more space and of an introductory adventure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rich Tom]

Hi Guys. I bought the book. I rather like it. The system emphasizes hex and dungeon crawling. It feels very tight and reminds me of a sort of D100lite like Frontier Space or Basic Fantasy RPG. It doesn't feel very BRP but there is some commonality. 

Riot Minds have sold the rights to all their catalogue to another company called Cmon. This happened over a month ago and then SILENCE. I found out about Ruin Masters from BRP Central. There's a Bestiary however I missed the Kick Starter. I think an adventure came out with the Bestiary. I have been on C'mon's Facebook page and asked but now can't find my post. (Maybe deleted, very ominous).

So,does anybody know anything about the developments? Has it gone to the Magic World Graveyard in the sky? Oh and play isn't much like MW which is sad although it is still good.

[smiorgan]

17 hours ago, Rich Tom said:

 

So,does anybody know anything about the developments? Has it gone to the Magic World Graveyard in the sky? Oh and play isn't much like MW which is sad although it is still good.

Hi, it is indeed possible that RM goes the way of Magic World and fades into nothingness, but maybe not.

The facts I know:

Riotminds was releasing a retro edition of Drakar och Demoner in Swedish and a Ruin Masters in English, which is DoD inspired but different. DoD was sold to Fria Ligan, RM was sold to Cmon.

Fria Ligan kickstarted DoD in Swedish and in English (with the Dragonbane title). It reuses art from RM but it's not compatible. It however covers the same niche of RM. It's still BRP derived but with d20 roll under. See the other thread here.

Cmon RPG director is Francesco Nepitello, whom I really trust as a designer. If they decide to do something with RM I'm sure it will be good. The problem is they also have got the rights to Trudvang, which might be a higher priority for them. 

I hope the at least put the bestiary on sale on Drivethru ...

[Rich Tom]

Me too. I hope the Bestiary comes out on Drivethru. There was an extra adventure and some sandbox adventure thing in the pipeline, if they came out at least the set would be available. Maybe they will look at POD as well. Anyway it is positive that you trust their designer. We can only wait and see.

Thanks.

 

[Rich Tom]

I have Zero confidence in Cmon to publish now. Na... This is a dead I. P. 

[Mankcam]

This is a pity, I only found out about Ruin Masters kickstarter quite late, and it looks more interesting than Dragonbane to me. Very BRP/WFRP influenced, but simplified and with a classic fantasy vibe.

I found a great unboxing of it only this morning, I can't believe this was totally off my radar at the time:

 

Ah well, it's one of those that got away... 😐

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Mankcam

[Ravenheart87]

4 hours ago, Mankcam said:

This is a pity, I only found out about Ruin Masters kickstarter quite late, and it looks more interesting than Dragonbane to me. Very BRP/WFRP influenced, but simplified and with a classic fantasy vibe.

 

You really didn't miss anything. RuinMaster was a quick cashgrab by RiotMinds. It looks pretty, but its design is confused, its layout is amateurish, and is overall a forgettable game. Dragonbane is a much better designed and written game.

[Rich Tom]

On 4/1/2023 at 3:14 PM, Ravenheart87 said:

You really didn't miss anything. RuinMaster was a quick cashgrab by RiotMinds. It looks pretty, but its design is confused, its layout is amateurish, and is overall a forgettable game. Dragonbane is a much better designed and written game.

I don't know about that. It appeared pretty clear to me. The layout was clear and well presented. it had few typos and I don't remember reading anything twice to understand it. It was however, BRP in name only and was really hard D00lite, being more akin to Star Frontiers, Barebones Fantasy or FrontierSpace in concept. I liked the aspect that absolutely every aspect of the character was adjustable through experience points, (although they were called something else). It was a bit one dimentional and reminiscent of OSR in its adventure style. I rather liked it and would have bought the second book.

Dragonbane appears to me to be an unfinished product. It only has sixteen monsters- There is no Scale mail or ring mail. There are no naval rules or rules for castles. The adventure creation  rules are simple and rather bland. Treasure comes in on playing cards but the information isn't repeated in the rule book. The book weighs in at 115 pages and feels more like a quick starter than a proper core rule book. Apart from being 20 sided dice resolution, it is rather generic Magic World esque but clearer and with awsome graphics. There is talk of a supplement, however with kick starter funds around 670.000€, I was expecting a lot more game. I do like it and would by a supplement, should one arise but this is just too brief to play outside of a published adventure.

Anyway Dragonbane is off to the printers and Ruinmasters is out of print despite two 200,000€+ Kickstarters. So the differences are a bit mute.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Rich Tom

[g33k]

On 4/7/2023 at 3:30 PM, Rich Tom said:

... It was however, BRP in name only and was really hard D00lite, being more akin to Star Frontiers, Barebones Fantasy or FrontierSpace in concept ...

Did it go for the 0-99 & crit/fumble doubles as per d00lite?

[Mugen]

On 4/1/2023 at 3:14 PM, Ravenheart87 said:

You really didn't miss anything. RuinMaster was a quick cashgrab by RiotMinds. It looks pretty, but its design is confused, its layout is amateurish, and is overall a forgettable game. Dragonbane is a much better designed and written game.

From my point of view, that's a terrible thing to say. As for myself, I was not impressed by Dragonbane. The way skill opposition is handled (roll under, lowest roll wins), and the fact you have to forfeit your attack to defend (which means that if you miss that roll, you've just lost your turn) were two major design flaws in my opinion.

Everything new in DB seemed to be taken from Forbidden Land.