Humakti spirits and/or ghosts?

[Beoferret]

Are they possible? If a Humakti wanted to stick around for awhile as a spirit (perhaps to act as a guard for someone they'd pledged themselves to), would they be able to? Would they experience spirits of retribution? If so, what would those spirits be like?

[soltakss]

As Bind Ghost is/was a Humakt spell, I would say it is possible.

[1d8+DB]

So in the   'Duel At Dangerford' scenario there's something called an Arkati Shadow Guardian,  which is the ghost of a Humakt  hero who acts as a kind of incorporeal referee at  a sacred dueling ground;   making sure that  the fights there  are  kept strictly mano-a-mano.  So yeah, there's  an established precedent for Humakt ghosts;  probably attached to  sacred tests, trials, and ordeals;  as judges and arbiters, I would imagine.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by 1d8+DB

[1d8+DB]

So one thing that occurs to me, is that Humakti  are probably very specific  in what oaths they give for this reason.  It's probably a bad thing if  a  Humakt   is forced to  return to the  Mundane plane, as  a spirit, to simply protect some individual, for an indefinite period of time;  they might return to enact a select act of vengeance against a personal foe, or  to avenge a friend or leader's death, but  I think the cult would frown upon the idea of long-term  'ghost' body-guards.

 

Delekti on the other hand...

[svensson]

A specific cult benefit of the Cult of Humakt is that Humakti cannot be turned into Undead.

However, comma, but.... there is some debate on whether or not the spirit of an intelligent being is 'undead' per se. There is an ambiguous grey area between Daka Fal and Humakt on the matter.

Were I the referee, I would rule that Humakti can choose to become bound spirits in cult or ancestral ritual items, but they cannot be forced to do so. The only exceptions would have to be very extraordinary... Thanatari Heads, for example, or certain foul Lunar magics that trap souls. That's a little anti-Lunar hyperbole there, but what I mean is is that there are canon instances of Humakti souls being trapped by Lunar magicians, but I am unaware of the specific game mechanics of how that was achieved.

[AndrewTBP]

I would assume that anyone described as an Arkati is not dead but on the hero plane guarding something. That's what the Arkat "cult" does, IIRC. 

[soltakss]

9 hours ago, svensson said:

A specific cult benefit of the Cult of Humakt is that Humakti cannot be turned into Undead.

Except for those who can.

The Travels of Bituran Varosh have an example of a Humakti turned into undead and he comments on how it chilled the blood to even think about it.

[svensson]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Except for those who can.

The Travels of Bituran Varosh have an example of a Humakti turned into undead and he comments on how it chilled the blood to even think about it.

Which is why I also said that it was possible under extraordinary circumstances.

[g33k]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

Except for those who can.

The Travels of Bituran Varosh have an example of a Humakti turned into undead and he comments on how it chilled the blood to even think about it.

n.b. that passage seems to need a bit more clarification:  that particular "undead" was a ghost/spirit... which (in general) is NOT a problem for Humakti -- they don't consider such disembodied entities as "undead."

Maybe Biturian was just ignorant on the niceties of Humakt doctrine (the "unreliable narrator" is a BIG part of the Gloranthan oeuvre); or maybe Steve Perrin (or whoever wrote that passage) was working from an earlier/erroneous understanding of "undeath" in Glorantha.

[French Desperate WindChild]

47 minutes ago, svensson said:

Which is why I also said that it was possible under extraordinary circumstances.

= devotion humakt fumble

 thanks to give me an idea:

if (when !) pc die, they have to roll some dices (devotion or other passion) to know where they "go" (if there is no plan on my side of course)

I don't know exactly what, but that sounds interesting, to see their death, not as their adventure's end, but a step to something else, maybe the end, maybe they come back (as some heroes did) maybe as a ghost, maybe elsewhere

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

if (when !) pc die, they have to roll some dices (devotion or other passion) to know where they "go" (if there is no plan on my side of course)

I don't know exactly what, but that sounds interesting, to see their death, not as their adventure's end, but a step to something else, maybe the end, maybe they come back (as some heroes did) maybe as a ghost, maybe elsewhere

Humakti spirits might be sent back to inhabit a sword (particularly if a task was unfinished).  Or they might be sent as gatekeepers to guard a path to the Underworld to ensure the Living do not enter the Land of the Dead without paying the requisite price (i.e. someone must die) and that the Dead do not return to the Land of the Living.

[French Desperate WindChild]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Humakti spirits might be sent back to inhabit a sword (particularly if a task was unfinished).  Or they might be sent as gatekeepers to guard a path to the Underworld to ensure the Living do not enter the Land of the Dead without paying the requisite price (i.e. someone must die) and that the Dead do not return to the Land of the Living.

yes that is an option, but I m not sure (it is not a challenge, you are my loremaster :p) that spirits sent by Humakt for these tasks are sent just after their death.

Seems to me they were long ago good humakti,  and sending spirits who directly know living people (so risk of unfair judgment) should be a management mistake

 

Spoiler

then as the CEO of the world, I would say "humakt, as you are a bad manager,  you're fired, (and don't care you're true or not, that is only 3d6, you are enough munchkin as is, don't add more damage to our relationship, please)

 

[Kargzant]

Spoiler

I always thought ghost binding was odd. I understand Swords of Humakt wanting to stick around to do their duty until dismissed, but I remember in Borderlands there's a situation where a ghost is bound to the sword of a Humakti. How does that work from a faith perspective?

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Kargzant
Possible spoiler

[HreshtIronBorne]

The priest is a Sword. In some Myths/ways Humakt IS the sword/Sword. So, I can definitely see it being one of the options for an honorable end of life to become part of the temple guardians or regalia or something. This could be an option for greivous unhealable wound, aged retiree, devoted guardian, or as a last ditch effort, a la the story of Pavis.