Strangers in Prax?

[MOB]

15 hours ago, David Scott said:

Remember that Strangers in Prax is three separate adventures, so unless reprinted as is:

• The Lunar Coders, no interest for RQG as they've left Prax. (by Michael O'Brien)

None of the Coders ever probably return to Prax again after they are recalled following the Cradle episode; their involvement in that debacle I outline in this other thread, along with what happens to all of them in the years afterwards up to the current RQG timeline.

(TL/DR: After being cleared in the recriminations that followed the Cradle, Count Julan is later promoted to higher office in the Citadel of Halfway; Princess Anderida withdraws to the Red Moon; Maculus finally retires to do his 'sorcerer in a tower' thing in his own purpose-built retreat near Eneal in Aggar; Nose Ring is said to be captaining one of the fabled Black Galleys in the Underworld, seeking the Giant baby; and Eslas defects from the Empire to serve the returned Sheng Seleris).

But, in the shattered times after the Dragonrise, Princess Anderida's daughter Johana forms a new cadre of Lunar Coders, so who knows where they might appear!

Edited March 23, 2022 by MOB

[Ian A. Thomson]

16 minutes ago, MOB said:

None of the Coders ever probably return to Prax again after they are recalled following the Cradle episode; their involvement in that debacle I outline in this other thread, along with what happens to all of them in the years afterwards up to the current RQG timeline.

(TL/DR: After being cleared in the recriminations that followed the Cradle, Count Julan is later promoted to higher office in the Citadel of Halfway; Princess Anderida withdraws to the Red Moon; Maculus finally retires to do his 'sorcerer in a tower' thing in his own purpose-built retreat near Eneal in Aggar; Nose Ring is said to be captaining one of the fabled Black Galleys in the Underworld, seeking the Giant baby; and Eslas defects from the Empire to serve the returned Sheng Seleris).

But, in the shattered times after the Dragonrise, Princess Anderida's daughter Johana forms a new cadre of Lunar Coders, so who knows where they might appear!

Yes, definitely recall that they don't return to Pavis. I was more imagining that they might in the few years after (and before the above events) be sent on at least a couple of other missions in or around the Empire before they disband, or even separately. I seem to remember Eslas goes on a mission to the Redlands for instance. And hoping that this will presumably fit the new timeline for RQG, by at least a couple of years overlap?

[Nick Brooke]

I think my esteemed colleague @David Scott is mistaken when he dismisses the Coders as having “no interest for RQG.” You could say the same about the RuneQuest Classics Pavis, Big Rubble and Borderlands. Plenty of people still have fun with that older material, either playing it “as-is” (in the Before Times) or else sensibly adapting it for post-Dragonrise play.

More of an issue (but not that much of one, IMO) is the deliberately gross, RQ3-exploiting statblocks of many of the Strangers. But that would be a bad reason to dismiss the core RQ3 Renaissance publications (Sun County, Troubled Waters, Shadows & Strangers).

Modest proposal: bundle Troubled Waters plus The Lunar Coders plus Barran the Monster-Slayer into one book. (Skip Arlaten the Magus if the Guide to Glorantha retcon of the West and changes to Sorcery rules between RQ3 and RQG make him unsalvageable; I don’t have a dog in that fight). Reissue Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands as-is. Put no effort into converting RQ3 to either RQ Classic or RQG (or indeed writing conversion notes): our readers are intelligent, they can do what’s necessary to use these titles in their games.

Job done.

[MOB]

1 hour ago, Ian Thomson said:

Yes, definitely recall that they don't return to Pavis. I was more imagining that they might in the few years after (and before the above events) be sent on at least a couple of other missions in or around the Empire before they disband, or even separately. I seem to remember Eslas goes on a mission to the Redlands for instance. And hoping that this will presumably fit the new timeline for RQG, by at least a couple of years overlap?

Yes, as outlined in the other thread. 'The Fate of the Coders':

Julan, Eslas, Maculus, and a new member, Anderida's daughter Johana, continue in their Coder service on missions throughout the Lunar periphery for a couple of years. It is after Eslas is left behind - or chooses to remain behind - on a disastrous mission beyond the Redlands that the group disbands: this is around the time of the Dragonrise.

And then we get The New Coders, with Johana as the leader and a new crew of heroes

[Godlearner]

12 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

But Arlaten the Magus [and for that matter the Coder Maculus the Monitor] are going to require rebuilds from the ground up. As far as I can see, the new Sorcery system is completely different from the RQ3 version. And given how much all three major groups in Strangers depends on Sorcery for their builds, that's gonna take some work.

Nah, it's not that different. Having written up sorcerers for JC, I can say it's totally doable.

[Jeff]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:14 AM, Ian Thomson said:

Is the problem with reprinting Strangers in Prax one of time, and person-power? Or are there legal issues/copyrights etc?

I for one would be delighted to assist co-ordinate (or helm) a fan-created re-release of these three stories (well, the Coders and Arlaten) for no financial remuneration

And I can't imagine I'd be alone in offering that support

Possibly there is the chunky rules-conversion issue, but I'm pretty confident we'd find someone to do a good job of that too.

The primary problem with reprinting Strangers in Prax is that it is a RQ3 supplement set some years before the current setting. As we have two books we are editing that are set in the Pavis and Big Rubble of 1625-1628, reprinting something set before the RQG period is not a high priority. 

[Rick Meints]

12 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Oh heck yes. I'm three weeks of full-time work into doing all that with the old Pavis & Big Rubble Companions now. And I am happy to add SiP into the middle of that cruel machine of soulless productivity!

I would very much like to get a proofed ms word file of the text for SiP. No updates to any of the contents, please. (other than obvious typos).

[Ian A. Thomson]

6 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I would very much like to get a proofed ms word file of the text for SiP. No updates to any of the contents, please. (other than obvious typos).

Roger that. Machine sounds begin :)

That's my morning well-spent. Lunar Coders now all present as a Word doc done except for a final check through and tidying the RQ3 stats. Any volunteers?

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[Nick Brooke]

9 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Roger that. Machine sounds begin 🙂

That's my morning well-spent. Lunar Coders now all present as a Word doc done except for a final check through and tidying the RQ3 stats. Any volunteers?

I’ll check them. My email’s in my sig.

Cheers, Nick

[Ian A. Thomson]

Awesome :)

The only thing not done is tidying up the RQ stats and of course the header sizes

Since the stats could be done as new stats are created (not a job I am suited for). Though you will make someone's job easier if you sort them out first

And the header sizes during layout (which I would happily do myself if it was part of a request to get it ready for release) :)

Sending Coders now

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:25 AM, Nick Brooke said:

I think my esteemed colleague @David Scott is mistaken when he dismisses the Coders as having “no interest for RQG.” You could say the same about the RuneQuest Classics Pavis, Big Rubble and Borderlands. Plenty of people still have fun with that older material, either playing it “as-is” (in the Before Times) or else sensibly adapting it for post-Dragonrise play.

More of an issue (but not that much of one, IMO) is the deliberately gross, RQ3-exploiting statblocks of many of the Strangers. But that would be a bad reason to dismiss the core RQ3 Renaissance publications (Sun County, Troubled Waters, Shadows & Strangers).

Modest proposal: bundle Troubled Waters plus The Lunar Coders plus Barran the Monster-Slayer into one book. (Skip Arlaten the Magus if the Guide to Glorantha retcon of the West and changes to Sorcery rules between RQ3 and RQG make him unsalvageable; I don’t have a dog in that fight). Reissue Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands as-is. Put no effort into converting RQ3 to either RQ Classic or RQG (or indeed writing conversion notes): our readers are intelligent, they can do what’s necessary to use these titles in their games.

Job done.

I remember planning to run the Troubled Waters Campaign, but then life events overtook and the deep freeze fell. For years I was like Han Solo in suspended animation, but probably not as cool.

Be great to see this material available again.

What’s the conversion process to RQG? Passions, Runes, Rune pools, Then it gets tricker with sorcery. Not forgetting minor adjustments to strike ranks. Appearance to Charisma - Did I miss anything? 

[Nick Brooke]

29 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

What’s the conversion process to RQG? Passions, Runes, Rune pools, Then it gets tricker with sorcery. Not forgetting minor adjustments to strike ranks. Appearance to Charisma - Did I miss anything? 

For RQ Classics, see the advice at the back of the core rulebook (pages 432-437). But the books themselves aren't converted, those are guidelines for RQG GMs using them with the new system. My advice is to wing it - add things you actually need on the fly, rather than investing many hours in unnecessary conversion work. Remember, the players don't ever get to audit your NPCs! If a strike rank or hit point breakdown is "slightly wrong," who cares?

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

30 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

For RQ Classics, see the advice at the back of the core rulebook (pages 432-437). But the books themselves aren't converted, those are guidelines for RQG GMs using them with the new system. My advice is to wing it - add things you actually need on the fly, rather than investing many hours in unnecessary conversion work. Remember, the players don't ever get to audit your NPCs! If a strike rank or hit point breakdown is "slightly wrong," who cares?

Good point. The more I thought about the more small things you could get hung up about in a conversion .  It really doesn’t matter that much in running the game. Broad brush stokes - it’s close enough.

I guess there’s an argument for a full conversion if you’re trying to remove potential barriers for newcomers to the game. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Bill the barbarian]

2 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

What’s the conversion process to RQG? Passions, Runes, Rune pools, Then it gets tricker with sorcery. Not forgetting minor adjustments to strike ranks. Appearance to Charisma - Did I miss anything? 

This looks as good your usual thinking. First rate! One might add Rune Spells and mod the weapons and armour but this depends on the balance you are seeking (and this is really a GM decision in the long run).

 

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

For RQ Classics, see the advice at the back of the core rulebook (pages 432-437). But the books themselves aren't converted, those are guidelines for RQG GMs using them with the new system. My advice is to wing it - add things you actually need on the fly, rather than investing many hours in unnecessary conversion work. Remember, the players don't ever get to audit your NPCs! If a strike rank or hit point breakdown is "slightly wrong," who cares?

Been saying and running with this thought in mind for quite some time! I run classic modules with RQG rules (cheap, you bet your sweet bippie I am! I spent good hard cash on those classic modules! Plus this time, I want to play the new modules, not run them! Dammit, it's my turn). If your players note and complain that an NPC has a plus or minus 7% in Animal Lore from what they were expecting them to have, I will eat my toque! If they notice (or if they might notice) the fact the armour is one or two points higher change the chainmail to ring, and Bob's your uncle (and he makes wicked Bison Burgers!). Should you fear the NPC will be too weak, let them keep the higher armour... and hand wave an explanation IF NEEDED.

 

1 hour ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Good point. The more I thought about the more small things you could get hung up about in a conversion .  It really doesn’t matter that much in running the game. Broad brush stokes - it’s close enough.

 

Close enough for Rock n Roll, hand grenades, and on-the-fly RQ conversions, eh?

Edited March 24, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Close enough for Rock n Roll, hand grenades, and on-the-fly RQ conversions, eh?

Yeah I’d forgotten about the little differences in how things are calculated in RQ3 - characteristics , dex sr, damage bonus and weapon damage bla bla etc but thankfully that level of detail is’nt necessary for Rock n’ Roll RuneQuest, or is that Jazz RuneQuest? I know the scales, Let’s get back to improv 🎶  😎

 

I

Edited March 24, 2022 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Ian A. Thomson]

10 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Good point. The more I thought about the more small things you could get hung up about in a conversion .  It really doesn’t matter that much in running the game. Broad brush stokes - it’s close enough.

I guess there’s an argument for a full conversion if you’re trying to remove potential barriers for newcomers to the game. 

Exactly

This is my thinking in a gentle persistent pushing for us just to get Strangers in Prax back out there asap

By the end of today I will have completed reclaiming, reformatting and correcting ALL of the text. 7tigers has already OCR'd it, including epic work getting all the illustrations. Nick is taking a look at tidying the RQ stats bits (I didn't focus on making sure they were properly reformatted as they need to be converted anyway)

So basically all that is needed now is:

* A volunteer to convert the basic RQ stats to RQG (with a focus on simplicity and playability). We don't need the massive detail of SiP, though absolutely must keep some for the main personalities.

* A volunteer to create believable, rules-functional, and simple versions of the sorcerers. There is ZERO need to know how they do what they do. Only 'what it looks like when they do it', 'what effect it has', 'how it can be resisted, or not', and how often they can do it'. Then we just include a note saying RQG sorcery rules will be expanded and extended in future, and this document _may_ be updated to reflect that. In the meantime, sit back relax, and play the stories out with the fun and fascination they was always their primary awesomeness

* Layout in whatever style Chaosium want. (I can do that myself in Word if they have a Word template for the house style)

I would be more than happy to keep hammering into this completely for the love of it, just so Chaosium can re-release this product asap. Nice to get a credit in the acknowledgments somewhere, along with other volunteers, but that's all

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[Bill the barbarian]

Sounds like you have no need for my assistances at all there Ian.

Bravo!

[Ian A. Thomson]

7 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Sounds like you have no need for my assistances at all there Ian.

Printing of such high quality (and 7Tigers OCRing of said printing also such high quality) that only about 5% of text has any errors in

I just use my patented reformatting search and replace method for dealing with paragraph breaks that I developed recovering the P&BR Companion stuff, and off we go :)

Obviously headers and sub-headers need redoing, but that will be a doddle as part of layout

[Godlearner]

Converting a sorcerer will require a creative rewrite of abilities. How close do you want it to be? How strict to the published rules?

[Nick Brooke]

On 3/23/2022 at 5:38 PM, Rick Meints said:

No updates to any of the contents, please. (other than obvious typos).

Before you get carried away…

[Ian A. Thomson]

17 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Before you get carried away…

Yes, no worries. I will add conversion notes into the Companion series if Ch. don't want them. Nothing will be done now that doesn't have a home. The simple sorcery conversion we are working on will go into the P&BR series if it doesn't get added to a new SiP. Thanks for the headsup though

[Nick Brooke]

From the Jonstown Compendium FAQ:

We don’t want the Jonstown Compendium to become a marketplace for “updated” versions of older Chaosium material. Please take care, we’d hate you to invest a lot of time and effort in an unsuitable conversion project.

[Godlearner]

6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

We don’t want the Jonstown Compendium to become a marketplace for “updated” versions of older Chaosium material

I can certainly understand that, but I like to see how things work. Converting on the fly does not work for sorcery. 

I know a lot of people in this group prefer a more narrative game style and HW/HQ is certainly an example of that, for me its torture. I would rather go play an MMO than freeform and will certainly convert anything I decide to use from that system, no matter if it's for JC or other use and hope that enough people see it the same way for it to be a worthwhile endeavor. 

[Nick Brooke]

If you want to propose the Rune affinities, Passions and/or Sorcery techniques the Coders might have in RQG, that’s cool. We don’t want to see products containing “revised and updated” statblocks for NPCs, but suggestions like that would be fine.

What you do for use in your own games is entirely up to you; it’s only when you want to sell something via our community content programme that we take an interest.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

I can certainly understand that, but I like to see how things work. Converting on the fly does not work for sorcery. 

As @Nick Brooke says:

36 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

If you want to propose the Rune affinities, Passions and/or Sorcery techniques the Coders might have in RQG, that’s cool.

Then start a new thread in the same vein as:

Just add spoilers to the title and see if anyone will roll up and help with each NPC. Just don't block publish the original stats in bulk in the thread (that breaks the fan publishing rules).