Starting the Heroquest

[Squaredeal Sten]

I have only run players through two heroquests, and would appreciate your comments on how to start one, magically and as a GM.  At this point I am running on Arcane Lore plus various forum and Facebook and face-to-face comments, including what fragments I hear about the playtest run at Chaosium con, plus Simon Phipp's Secrets of Heroquesting, and Andrew L. Montgomery's  Company of the Dragon.  These various sources are not necessarily 100% compatible but they do rhyme.

I am going to lay out my suppositions about how to initiate a heroquest magically (i.e. Da Rules, however unwritten they may be as of today), but I am really interested in your suggestions about how to GM the starting phase. 

It seems to me that if I have prepared one, or if the players have prepared one, I don't want to let that go to waste by staking all the prep work on one die roll, and I am willing to put in some handwavium to get the night's adventure started.  On the other hand, just personally, I really want consistency with the Gloranthan background, so I also want some limits.

Tell me f you disagree with any of these proposed principles:

As i understand it there are several different levels of heroquest, ranging from  In-World to Gods World.  The least magical input and risk is involved in the In-world variety, which also have the least expected reward.  However it may still morph into a higher level quest.

As I understand it, a large amount of magic is normally required to create a doorway or coincident space between the Mundane world and the Hero Plane or Gods World.   This usually requires "community support" and a lot of it, which i interpret as the donation of magic Points by large numbers of people.  A single heroquester can't create the magical doorway on his or her own.  This requirement will normally be reduced through use of ritual practices, but even so a large number of people will be wanted, as a supporting audience rather than as participants in the quest..  

The specific number of people or of donated magic points required is currently undefined.  This is the primary point for applying handwavium.  I understand that less magic is required to start an in-world quest and much more is required to transit to the Gods plane / world, in rough proportion to the expected benefits and risk of the planned quest.

As i understand it some places are easier to start a heroquest from:  To start from, you generally need a Sanctified space, and a temple is the normal starting point because it is a superior and pre-made sanctified space.  A temple might even have an Artifact which makes it easier.  But there are also "actual regions or spots in the world where mythical or legendary events took place", and in those places in the Mundane world one is always closer to the hero plane, at least for the purposes of some quests.

Sacred Time is a time when it is easier to initiate a heroquest, because the mundane and other planes are closer together / easier to bridge at that time.  Cults' high and seasonal holy days will also be easier times for quests pertaining to the cults in question.

As i understand it you can also get into a heroquest "by accident" (p.51 of Arcane Lore) and as a practical matter this means the GM wants to run one.   One variety of such "accidents" is being summoned into someone else's quest.
 

OK, having said these things,

- I am  inclined, in the case of quests NOT initiated by the players, to say that the community and its priest(s) have done what is needed to fulfill the requirements, to describe the gathering of the clan and the ceremony, but not to require the players to do much to set all this up.

- I am inclined to explain requirements to my players to the extent necessary, probably by having an NPC priest lay the requirements out, but to be brief about it.

- But if the players are initiating the quest, to require more planning and resource-gathering from them.  How much more?  i don't know.  Your thoughts?

 

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

- I am  inclined, in the case of quests NOT initiated by the players, to say that the community and its priest(s) have done what is needed to fulfill the requirements, to describe the gathering of the clan and the ceremony, but not to require the players to do much to set all this up.

Generally, yes.  But let them do some of the important prep (there's some good ideas in the HeroQuest works, e.g. SKoH, Pavis, 11 Lights, and HQG itself).  Lay out the myth/quest as the priests understand it (or have the PC's investigate documents to frame it).  There are some ritual/required roles.  Who takes which role?  Provide them with (or have them create) masks or artifacts to help make this role association clear.  (If no masks, paint their faces!)  Staying in character later should provide initial bonuses (e.g. augments), and failing to do so may incur penalties.  Ancillary roles can be determined by the players - if an Orlanth quest, someone might be Heler or a Thunder Brother, etc.

But I always make the crossing over occur - it's no fun if you stop the quest right at the start!  (Where they end up when they fall down the rabbit hole is another question altogether.)

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

- I am inclined to explain requirements to my players to the extent necessary, probably by having an NPC priest lay the requirements out, but to be brief about it.

I like how Nick presents some of this in his Black Spear.  In Eleven Lights, Minaryth the sage walks them through ideas based on the results of the PC's investigations.

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

- But if the players are initiating the quest, to require more planning and resource-gathering from them.  How much more?  i don't know.  Your thoughts?

Have them lay out what they think the quest entails.  Yes, it may require some further planning and resources, but if you focus on the quest's roles, this shouldn't be that difficult. 

E.g. this is the story of how Orlanth and the Thunder Brothers rescued the animals from the Evil Enchanter. 

The roles are right there:  Orlanth + Thunder Brothers.  Then determine which Thunder Brothers: the Tracker (Yinkin? Odayla?), the Scout (Tatouth? Destor?), the Warrior(s) (Hedkoranth? Finovan? Heler?), and the Shepherd who can bring the animals home (Voriof? someone else?).

Then just have them describe the resources each brought (choose two or three items as ritually appropriate).

Then, the next bit is how the quest was supposed to go:  the Dark Woods to find the trail, the Enchanter's Fortress, the Rescue of the Animals, the Escape Home.

And there's probably some "secret" or specific encounter in each place.  The elves tried to lead them astray in the Dark Woods, but they saved Blue Fox and she told them how to get through.  Etc.

And you're ready to go.

[French Desperate WindChild]

I have the same issue 🙂 I m not confortable because there is not clear "cost" and "benefit" (aka how much mp / pow to obtain what)

It is easier (for me) about background and "mundane material" (cows, ceremony, sing, etc...) , and @jajagappa answered well (as usual !) and better than any thing I could propose

16 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

- I am  inclined, in the case of quests NOT initiated by the players, to say that the community and its priest(s) have done what is needed to fulfill the requirements, to describe the gathering of the clan and the ceremony, but not to require the players to do much to set all this up.

 

Of course ! that's the best way for me, until we have the next rules. and that eases the reward too (the impact is for community not for pcs, of course pc could gain something, like what shaman can obtain)

16 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

- I am inclined to explain requirements to my players to the extent necessary, probably by having an NPC priest lay the requirements out, but to be brief about it.

yes, and when you will know the rules, if there is any inconsistency with what you (gm) said, you would be able that was the npc who said wrong thing !

 

16 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

- But if the players are initiating the quest, to require more planning and resource-gathering from them.  How much more?  i don't know.  Your thoughts?

the hard point : you need to know the investment, and you need to know the benefit. I would say in this case :

- don't try to know "where" the pc go (mundane / hero /  god / level x plan). In fact I even not sure gloranthan are able to determine it exactly

- prefer to see what they sacrifice (during the start AND during the quest), and adjust the benefits:

-->  Few pow / 20 mp ? a spirit spell is found, a blessing for one or two seasons ? one little bonus for the pc (like a yelmalio gift, or possibility to sacrifce 1-2 pow for hero points / or even if  very little ambitious start, a rune spell. Maybe a weak allied/friend spirit ?)

--> 20 cows ? two slaves ? hundreds mp ? 20 pow ? a new divine spell to the wyter ? a blessing for few years ? bigger bonus for the pc (same level that previously but a reward per station and maybe a rune at 100% ? )

--> more ? whooo able to "disturb" the red emperor, argrath, harreck ? very big price for the pc (permanent new ability : fly , eternity, split fire....)

 

but I m really not sure of my hypothesis. In all cases, my opinion is that is not your role to say your players "if you want to go there and obtain that, you must pay this"

I m more inclined to say "you read/remember / .. that this quest  was done after all the tribe gather together and sacrificed dozens of cows and pig, at least six priests lead the worship ceremony for a week before the heros leave our world to save our community. When they returned successfully we found our fields full of good grain and we were able to eat. They save our life". Let them define what it means, what they expect, and propose opposition  and gain after.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I have the same issue 🙂 I m not confortable because there is not clear "cost" and "benefit" (aka how much mp / pow to obtain what)

Never look at a quest from a "cost"/"benefit" standpoint!  That's so NOT MGF. 🙃

When you read a fantasy novel, how often do you see the protagonist agonizing over how many MP's they need?  Or how much power they need to devote?  You don't. 

In one of my games, the clan needed to determine whether to engage in the quest to the Underworld to free their goddess Orane.  They were gathered at the clan moot to decide.  The clan was divided: some wanted to rescue Orane, some felt they should just come to terms with the Lunars.  The PC's had opportunity to speak since they were familiar with some of the events.  One used his Thunderous Voice (e.g. Air Rune inspiration augmenting Orate) to impress upon the clan the need to rescue her.  It was an Opposed Roll vs. clan's approximate level of Resistance.  Totally achieved his goal and the clan gave total support to the effort - i.e. everyone in the clan is joining the Worship and no issues making the crossing.

Keep that part Simple.  No 20 cows for x MP, adding up how many clan members participated, etc.  If you convince the Clan Ring, or the Clan, with Orate, you just do it.

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the hard point : you need to know the investment, and you need to know the benefit.

You really don't.  Let the PC's find a sacred spot to deity X (do some research, talk to their temple or priests, but you don't need more than that).  Perform the Worship service (convince their priest to lead it preferably, but don't block it).  And make the Crossing.

The PC's know the benefit - they want to gain X for {family/clan/temple/etc.}.  You, as GM, can gauge what this means in terms of encounters and possible outcome. 

But I strongly suggest you avoid getting into "quest economics".

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Let them define what it means, what they expect, and propose opposition  and gain after.

Yes!  Stay with this approach and it will be far more satisfying all around.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Keep that part Simple.  No 20 cows for x MP, adding up how many clan members participated, etc.  If you convince the Clan Ring, or the Clan, with Orate, you just do it.

yes that is what i described until we have rules, but here you re describing the "not initiated option" (or what I understand to be it) the pc request for a heroquest, but a lot of  decisions (how much, when, who..) are abstract as that is the clan ring who decides. Note that is probably the best way, I agree, and will do all my possible to put the player in this way

 

that does'nt answer the option "I organize the heroquest myself, i order people to do things, I decide myself how many cows (or anything else) I sacrifice because I am the priest / rune lord / leader", like the king of dragon pass game proposes.

the "mentor card" is not always available, nobody available to abstract it. And that was my last part :  Not yet a rule, so see what players are able to pay, and adapt what they "bought"

I use the spoiler to not pollute too much the topic 🙂
 

Spoiler

from my perspective without standard (or economics as you said), we touch the big issue in the gloranthan family :

one table will play this way, the other one this way... that is fine. but sometimes a table will not play it at all, due to ignorance

then someone will ask what could be the "prize" and will face twenty answers, or maybe will buy a JC supplement, ask a question and understand (or not) that what he bought is only one fan view and not the standard. Could be disappointed, frustrated or angry

 

And for some people, that is hard, very hard, when you want to do things "good" but you need some guidelines because you don't consider yourself legitimate to run it.

The point is, for those who are not in the forum, who are alone and lost in the underworld and have to run a campaign. For those, a part will be able to find a way by themselves, but other will be blocked (and maybe lost for chaosium)

 

You cannot imagine how much I have been progressing in autonomy because this forum, and because there are so many different answers (sometimes) that it let me accept that my way (house rules) are not worse than others

more than 20 years alone, without any idea to run a heroquest (except simon's proposal, i loved the "story" part but didn't like his economics). now, day after day, I m building my options and my opinion, hoping to be aligned with the gm book rules. But I needed a trigger, confronting my question with you (thanks to the white bull campaign, you @jajagappa and others in the forum)

but this trigger, a lot of people don't have access to. And then, without trigger, some people need clear guidelines. you know you must roll dices to determine if your spell is successful or not. You know how many mp /rune points you need to offer madness to your opponent. That"s fine. But entering a heroquest ? mmmmm you don't know anything

I know that may be difficult to understand for those who have been part of the inner circle for more than half their life, but the old lay members or just fresh initiates (like me, I hope^^ well fresh for the status, not the age, unfortunatly) don't experiment and understand the same things that high priests or even god talkers !

 

[jajagappa]

7 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

that does'nt answer the option "I organize the heroquest myself, i order people to do things, I decide myself how many cows (or anything else) I sacrifice because I am the priest / rune lord / leader", like the king of dragon pass game proposes.

Actually, my preference is to keep this simple as well.  Break it down into key components and decide if anything special is needed.  This is actually modeled in the Worship service and the benefits for right date/right place.  Just don't worry about the # of cows, unless that is somehow important to the story!

Have the players consider the following:

1) Where does it need to occur (and do they already know, or need to figure it out)?  A temple is the most obvious, but almost any location might have some interesting Godtime tale and become relevant.

2) When does it need to occur?  You've got the tables with bonuses for Season/Week/Day.  Determine what deities or elements or powers are being invoked and you should have an answer (unless the story says otherwise). 

3) Who do you need to be, and what do you need to bring to prove it?  Is the leader Orlanth, Yelm, Ernalda, etc.  Who else is along?  Give bonuses for having the "Right Stuff" aka "the stuff of Heroes".  (maybe +10% for leader, +5% for each correct minor role)

4) Who will help you make the crossing?  Is it family, village, clan, temple?  This is where Loyalty or Love comes into play.  Augment with Orate or Sing or whichever Communication skill makes sense.  Success? Then you've got the support you need for the Worship service.  Failure?  They'll provide support but at a cost, or you must provide the sacrifice.

5) What sacrifice, if any, is needed?  Quality over Quantity!  You want the White Bull, or the Black Bull, or the Red Hen, or the Blue Sheep, or some nice magical item! If you failed item 4, then you've got to come up with it.  If you succeeded at 4, then the Community provides it.  (If One chosen sacrifice seems too "easy", then use the Sacred Numbers!  Three is the classic myth motif.  If it's an Earth Rune related quest use Four.  I'd go with Two for the Moon, personally - duality of Light/Dark, etc - but some might argue Seven.  A proper Yelmic quest either needs One or Ten.)

6) Other accoutrements?  Holy water?  Holy Dirt?  A Bag of Winds to blow you to the Other Side?  A Mirror?  Add them in and add a bonus for their presence.

7) Hold the Worship service.  Maybe lead the Community in Sing or Dance or Meditation for some added augment.  Otherwise, take leader's Worship, add in all the relevant augments including bonus for the nice sacrifice (if you're not rolling against a 100%+ with those bonuses, you're missing something!).  Make the Worship roll.  Crit/Special - you're there and have some augment thanks to your Community's support.  Success - you're there as intended.  Failure - you're there, but something's off (right place, wrong "Age"; or right "Age", wrong place - probably just subtly off).  Fumble - well, have fun with it!  You went somewhere, but perhaps "It's a Trap!" (your enemies screwed you over and somehow intervened in your plans) - now your quest has a "new" First Station/event.  Run with it.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by jajagappa

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

 

3) Who do you need to be, and what do you need to bring to prove it?  Is the leader Orlanth, Yelm, Ernalda, etc.  Who else is along?  Give bonuses for having the "Right Stuff" aka "the stuff of Heroes".  (maybe +10% for leader, +5% for each correct minor role)

I'd probably think number of Rune Points sacrificed to the deity to be relevant here, as it shows how strong the connection is... (along with the Runes themselves )

[jajagappa]

48 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'd probably think number of Rune Points sacrificed to the deity to be relevant here, as it shows how strong the connection is... (along with the Runes themselves )

Yes you could, or roll for Devotion, but I like to tie it to the myth/story.  If you're an initiate of Orlanth and are taking Orlanth's role, you've got the right Runes.  Possibly give a bonus for each +10% over 60% in those.

[Nick Brooke]

I handwave this stuff in Black Spear. It seems to me that if (a) the entire Colymar Tribe directed by its Queen; (b) the congregation of Five Eyes Temple at an unusually high Holy Day; (c) hundreds of Sun Dome Templars, commanded by either of their Counts; or (d) Argrath Dragonspear can’t get a heroquest started, something’s gone wrong with your Glorantha.

[JRE]

I would agree that with a minimum effort the quest starts, but if the support is weak or the preparation is insufficient you have two choices, either make it a shallow quest (normal steps, decreased reward) or add some opposition linked to the failure, so the players know they did not do their homework. I would not have Rune points (beyond Sanctify if needed) used up at start, but some stages may require a certain magic (Fly in many Orlanthi myths, for instance). That is a strong motivation for spell trading, but you need to have other extra preparations if the leader does not exactly fit the mythic protagonist. However I also use that you can draw magic and in extreme cases Rune magic from your supporters, and that is a big plus for supported quests, as you may well have a magic point pool of thousands of points if you have the whole Colymar tribe behind you, and if the high priest of Orlanth Adventurous is fully behind you, hemight lend you the use his Fly spell if you do not have it. The questers still need to roll, but the tools available will be very different. You would need some symbol of the magic beforehand, such as a gift of winged sandals from the priest, not an improvisation when you find you cannot follow the Thunder brothers.

IMG in the Godtime magic is undifferentiated, so you can use a similar magic to pass a stage. This is an Arkati secret later exploited by the God Learners, and now rediscovered by Argrath and some Lunars. So if you fly to meet a dragon, it does not matter how you fly, but you need to fly. A sorcerer using Fire bolt in a theist quest will appear as using a Sunspear to her fellow questers, wich may raise some questions.

My Glorantha is sorcerously skewed, however, as with preparation it allows you to recreate almost any magic, as demonstrated by the God Learners. The downturn for the GLs is that succesful heroquests make you closer to the mythic figure you follow, which means your sorcerers start to become theist heroes, or dragon wannabes, or human troll hybrids, or undead abominations, depending on the quests you explore. That way you have all those former GL satellites breaking off as they lose sight of the Abiding Truth to focus in their own power. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

What would you think of "with a minimum effort" the quest may become an "accidental" quest, that is the party is drawn into someone else's quest?  As in a Thed or Thanatar priest starting his own with Summons of Evil (summons of law?) and the party are diverted to play a part?

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten

[JRE]

I would always do this as a deliberate event, and I see two options. As a "punishment" for players that did not prepare the heroquest, in terms of knowledge, support  or magic, their heroquest can be hijacked by someone else. A typical one is to appear as enemy in someone else's quest, which could just be your neighbours you are feuding with. The other option is that, as the player characters get more mythical, their shadow in the heroplanes gets larger, and I would increase the chance of them being caught in someone else's HQ. I would not determine this randomly, but as a deliberate event, probably to highlight that they are really heroforming, and for powerful characters a matter of choice, but usually at risk of weakening their connection with the divine if they do not step up.

It can be a bother for the heroic character, but just think who would dare to heroquest when Harrek is nearby with the risk that if he feels like it he will appear as Death in your heroquest. Similarly, just knowing Jar Eel is around may be enough to stop all anti-lunar heroquests, unless you have a loving companion able to keep her distracted for a while...

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

What would you think of "with a minimum effort" the quest may become an "accidental" quest, that is the party is drawn into someone else's quest?  As in a Thed or Thanatar priest starting his own with Summons of Evil (summons of law?) and the party are diverted to play a part?

The less preparation to define and frame the quest, the more likely it is to go awry.  As a GM you might well frame it as being drawn into someone else's quest - but you don't need to spell that out for the players.

As an example, in one of my games, the PC's escaped being imprisoned by a Lunar regiment by being swallowed by a Trickster and escaping through a trap-door in the Trickster's esophagus (you never know what you'll find in a Trickster after all).  Effectively they crossed over to the Other Side creating an impromptu quest without any preparation.  Eventually the main group found themselves in the Fog of Ignorance in which stood an Ivory Tower, the Light of Knowledge amidst Ignorance.  The Ivory Tower (Lhankor Mhy's tower) was under assault by a group of magicians.  In reality, this was a Lunar quest led by "Irrippi Ontor" to take Lhankor Mhy's powers for himself.  The PC's intervened,  defeating the magicians (all wearing appropriate masks of Lunar deities), and saving the Ivory Tower.  They were allowed in to the Tower for their assistance, and found themselves in LM's library, which after enough turns leads back into the relevant LM temple library (Jonstown in this case).

Clearly the PC's were "pulled into" a Lunar quest as foes.  But their perspective was simply that of allies to the Light of Knowledge who helped fend off a dangerous/evil foe.  Through additional heroquests you might come to find that one of these figures is another, opposing heroquester - your shadow, if you will - but this only comes with more experience.

 

[soltakss]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:53 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

I am going to lay out my suppositions about how to initiate a heroquest magically (i.e. Da Rules, however unwritten they may be as of today), but I am really interested in your suggestions about how to GM the starting phase. 

To be honest, I just let it happen.

I have little interest in stopping a HeroQuest by having people fail to roll.

On 4/25/2022 at 4:53 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

As i understand it there are several different levels of heroquest, ranging from  In-World to Gods World.  The least magical input and risk is involved in the In-world variety, which also have the least expected reward.  However it may still morph into a higher level quest.

As I understand it, a large amount of magic is normally required to create a doorway or coincident space between the Mundane world and the Hero Plane or Gods World.   This usually requires "community support" and a lot of it, which i interpret as the donation of magic Points by large numbers of people.  A single heroquester can't create the magical doorway on his or her own.  This requirement will normally be reduced through use of ritual practices, but even so a large number of people will be wanted, as a supporting audience rather than as participants in the quest..  

I just use a HeroQuest as a Runespell that can be cast with an appropriate Rune, nothing more complex than that.

On 4/25/2022 at 4:53 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

As i understand it some places are easier to start a heroquest from:  To start from, you generally need a Sanctified space, and a temple is the normal starting point because it is a superior and pre-made sanctified space.  A temple might even have an Artifact which makes it easier.  But there are also "actual regions or spots in the world where mythical or legendary events took place", and in those places in the Mundane world one is always closer to the hero plane, at least for the purposes of some quests.

Sacred Time is a time when it is easier to initiate a heroquest, because the mundane and other planes are closer together / easier to bridge at that time.  Cults' high and seasonal holy days will also be easier times for quests pertaining to the cults in question.

If you want to, use the sacred place and time modifiers, anything to boost the chance of starting the HeroQuest. Even if they fail to cast the spell, they should be able to try again.

On 4/25/2022 at 4:53 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

- But if the players are initiating the quest, to require more planning and resource-gathering from them.  How much more?  i don't know.  Your thoughts?

Starting the HeroQuest should require something magical, but that's about it.

Resource gathering etc should help to succeed on the HeroQuest, nit to start it, in my opinion.

 

[Lordabdul]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

To be honest, I just let it happen.

I have little interest in stopping a HeroQuest by having people fail to roll.

Exactly. To me the question isn't whether the adventurers start the heroquest, it's how the adventurers start the heroquest. Did they start it on their own or stumble accidentally upon it, or did they prepare for it and managed to negotiate the backing of the entire tribe to provide magical support? The mechanics should model this and I'm happy to say that the upcoming heroquest rules do, by representing community support as extra points you can spend in the heroquest to use heroquesting techniques and boost your rolls.

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

I just use a HeroQuest as a Runespell that can be cast with an appropriate Rune, nothing more complex than that.

FWIW, Arcane Lore had a generalization of the "change planes" spells, where Discorporation is what we have now (1 point Rune Spell to go to the spirit world), but then there was a 2 point version to go to the hero plane, and a 3 point version to go to the god time. I have no idea if that will get used in the upcoming rules. It's easy to handwave and say "it just happens" because there are "converging magical energies" or some bullshit, or there's some priest doing it for you.

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

If you want to, use the sacred place and time modifiers, anything to boost the chance of starting the HeroQuest. Even if they fail to cast the spell, they should be able to try again.

IMHO the sacred place and time modifiers should go on the magical support you get -- i.e. Worship rolls should get easier, which translates to more heroquesting points to spend during the heroquest. Same thing with ritual practices, to explain why people generally meditate for days before big heroquests.

[PhilHibbs]

On 4/28/2022 at 4:57 AM, lordabdul said:

Arcane Lore had a generalization of the "change planes" spells, where Discorporation is what we have now (1 point Rune Spell to go to the spirit world), but then there was a 2 point version to go to the hero plane, and a 3 point version to go to the god time. I have no idea if that will get used in the upcoming rules. It's easy to handwave and say "it just happens" because there are "converging magical energies" or some bullshit, or there's some priest doing it for you.

I don’t see why it’s bullshit. I find the idea of a spell that you cast to change planes is very lacking. Starting a hero quest should be different every time, varying depending on the quest, the location, the participants, the reason for doing it etc.

[Lordabdul]

17 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don’t see why it’s bullshit.

Don't read too much into the swearing... I'm French, we use swear-words as punctuation 😉   

[Shiningbrow]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:28 AM, lordabdul said:

Don't read too much into the swearing... I'm French, we use swear-words as punctuation 😉   

We use punctuation as swear-words.. @!!@@***#1!