Eurmal

[Erol of Backford]

I have never been in a campagin with the trickster as a PC and for that matter they have always been at the periphery in any campaign. I have many questions and hope to find out more via links and reading. Is there a list that shows Eurmal sources?

Are there any mainstream 1600-1625 Eurmali that are adventurer types might travel with a PC group and not be an outcast or loner?

Eurmal teaching men to speak to dragons- if so where and when?

Eurmal Great Temple in Slontos - where is it or would it have been, has it been roughly located on any map?

The God Learners had a Great Temple to Eurmal, where they collected every single RuneSpell that Eurmal taught and made them available to all the Eurmali in the Great Temple in Slontos. Where is there a cult write up besides in the Gods of Gloranth book and is there some source for the possible full list of spells?

...which may have sunk under the weight of Trickster magical abuses, when they obtained access to the full range of Eurmal's divine spells. How deep is it below the surface, are there some spaces which still have air, who are the inhabitants? "Still populated by the descendants of the original Eurmali."

There were some adventures at the Plateau of States I recall reading where boggles were doing crazy stuff and even a giant boggle? Does anyone recall where is is in print?

• Eurmal (or his son Yomat) is a promethean thief of fire and other civilizatory achievements from the gods, possibly including the secret of iron working for the Third Eye Blue people.
• All "mostali" are cargo cultists.
• Yomat = Humakt. IIRC, iron was created to “carry death”. Yomat–Humakt is the friend of men because he brought death to the world. (Humakt “inherited” death from Eurmal, and perhaps that is as seriously as one needs to take Eurmal’s begetting Yomat.)

Are there associate gods and subcults that give skills and or spells such as Mostal, Humakt and or Thief gods?

Where actually is Slontos University and is there any plan of it?

Is there a Clown College in Thanor? Is there any source on it?

An illuminated Trickster is surely a follower of Eurmal the destroyer, Eurmal the world wrecker, who kept stealing death and passing it around for laughs - Eurmal before he got scared of all the vengeful victims relentlessly pursuing him, and ran to Orlanth for help. What sources for the destroyer or world wrecker are there if any?

Eurmali temple in Pavis - wasn't there a trickster write up in a fanzine that had a reapearing trickster temple in the rubble? Anyone recall what zine it was in?

[mfbrandi]

13 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where is there a cult write up besides in the Gods of Glorantha book and is there some source for the possible full list of spells?

Pages 59 to 72 in Storm Tribe are given over to an Eurmal cult write-up including the Death Finder and Destroyer aspects. Don’t expect anything like a usable spell list, though, because Hero Wars … and Eurmal!

[Erol of Backford]

Some good material there Mr. Brandi. Thanks!

He even created a ruling family by mating with himself, and they became respected in those lands! What a jokester he was! At the end the gods became angry and alarmed, and destroyed the whole region where he had taken over. That is why Slontos sank beneath the waves.

[mfbrandi]

2 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

He even created a ruling family by mating with himself

Classic Heinlein/Gerrold/Arkat behaviour, I’d say. 😜

[Erol of Backford]

Deadeye the Death-Finder:

If a trickster or Humakti stays the night there and lives (which is rare), they get the Deadeye, which kills people they look at. Would this be like sever spirit?

Edited October 9, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Eurmal Great Temple in Slontos - where is it or would it have been, has it been roughly located on any map?

The God Learners had a Great Temple to Eurmal, where they collected every single RuneSpell that Eurmal taught and made them available to all the Eurmali in the Great Temple in Slontos.

Guide p.351 has the map of old Slontos (before she rolled over).  Check out the Thanor entry.  Then look at the current map on p.357 and the entry for Thanor on p.362.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Eurmal teaching men to speak to dragons- if so where and when?

Early 2nd Age in Dragon Pass.  If I remember correctly it would be referenced in KoS in the section on the EWF.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

There were some adventures at the Plateau of States I recall reading where boggles were doing crazy stuff and even a giant boggle? Does anyone recall where is is in print?

Jeff Okamoto's campaign log from Sandy Petersen's original campaign.  The relevant log is here: Book One — The Quest – The Well of Daliath (chaosium.com)

 

[Erol of Backford]

If boggles are near would it not suggest a trickster shrine?

This interplay lasted for awhile during which some other boggles dragged away Jaranx and his llama. After more meaningless dialogue we discovered where they had taken him.

[Erol of Backford]

KoS p.92, Rostand the Speaker...

[EricW]

Eurmal PCs are great fun to play. The other members of the party tend to barely tolerate them because they are so useful, invisibility spells, thief skills, and that awesome lie spell. But of course nobody is immune to the pranks.

Eurmal PCs are a lot of trouble to be around. Why bother paying for anything when you can use the formidable magics of your god to steal or cheat? Its pretty much a religious duty. Eurmal PCs never run out of money, between pick pocket or emptying the money box while everyone is busy fighting over WHO STOLE THAT COW, they always have a pocket full of cash. Of course, any associate of the trickster could get in trouble hanging around their "friend" - the cowardly trickster can just turn invisible and hide in the corner, leaving the other PCs to deal with the angry mob. 

I think its important to hand out power in tiny drabs, otherwise Eurmal players can power game up to pretty much invincible very quickly. Remember there is no rule against tricksters using magic on each other, so approaching a powerful shrine like lie or strike, the PC has a fair chance of becoming a victim to the very magic they are seeking to learn. This of course can involve the entire party in ridiculous delusions or dangerous encounters. Visiting the temple in Slontos would be unimaginably dangerous, Eurmal likely has an infinite range of spells, and a great temple, where all of those spells would be available, would attract powerful trickster heroes who would have no compunction over attacking the PC, if there was anything in it for them. 

[mfbrandi]

Of course, a trickster character needn’t be played as being as powerful or as potentially nuts as the Trickster god themself.

Also, not all trickster cults are the cult of Eurmal — though if you like that, go with it, and the title of the thread is … — and a devotee of a Trickster more resembling Prometheus or Enki/Ea might be fun and provide a different set of problems. It wouldn’t be that the PC would necessarily be at odds with the other mortals, but they would still be rooting for a god at odds with the other gods (because on the side of the mortals). Now maybe it is not the Orlanthi who are pissed at the party, but Orlanth raging at them and their god.

In the Atrahasis, the gods get sick of the noise of the ever more numerous humans every 600 years or so and contrive means to wipe many of them out so they can get some sleep. “Every 600 years you have come” — that sounds familiar. (Ellil, the storm god, is the genocide-in-chief — “No form of life should have escaped. How did any man survive the catastrophe?” — I mean, the storm god is always the bad guy, right?) Atrahasis is a worshipper of Enki/Ea, who helps him survive a number of such attacks — including via an “ark” when matters come to a head and it seems all humans are going to be killed. The cycle is broken when a number of population-limiting measures are imposed: shorter lives, barrenness, childhood diseases, celibate ‘taboo’ religious women. That is, there is a compromise that breaks the cycle of catastrophe, this benefits humans (and the gods, as someone has to cook their meals), but there is a cost: we are in Yomat, friend of men territory. Atrahasis himself is described as a wise man and he has to indulge in some deception as to exactly why he is building a reed boat on an unprecedented scale, but he is not a demented clown figure with terrifying magic. So there are other ways to work Trickster worshippers into stories. (By the time we get to Noah, storm–genocide and trickster–friend are the same god. Is this a step in the right direction? Don’t ask me, but it does fit with Wile E./Crafty Coyote as Jesus.)

I would play it that all Tricksters are masks of the same god, even if the worshippers don’t know this, but I suspect it makes no practical difference.

[Darius West]

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Deadeye the Death-Finder:

If a trickster or Humakti stays the night there and lives (which is rare), they get the Deadeye, which kills people they look at. Would this be like sever spirit?

It's more like a sever spirit they can't turn off unless they close their eyes imo.  Either be blind or a murderer.  I've just written a character who went thru that issue tbt.

[jajagappa]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If boggles are near would it not suggest a trickster shrine?

Not necessarily.  Boggles are rather unfathomable being creatures of pure Disorder.  Any trickster shrine present would be disrupted by the presence of the Boggles over the course of time.  Boggles don't need to worship the Trickster to gain Disorder magic - they ARE Disorder magic.

[Erol of Backford]

6 hours ago, EricW said:

Eurmal players can power game up to pretty much invincible very quickly

Good to avoid, appreciate advice.

[PhilHibbs]

9 hours ago, EricW said:

I think its important to hand out power in tiny drabs, otherwise Eurmal players can power game up to pretty much invincible very quickly.

Everyone runs out of rune points eventually, and with everyone having reusable rune magic nowadays this is now more or less the same for everyone.

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

everyone having reusable rune magic nowadays

As we'll be RQ3 unless they make acolyte that's not the case for most. Eurmali would be but it doesn't seem that they have standard rune spells? Besides the G of Glorantha Book is there an Eurmaili cult write up?

[PhilHibbs]

42 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

As we'll be RQ3 unless they make acolyte that's not the case for most. Eurmali would be but it doesn't seem that they have standard rune spells? Besides the G of Glorantha Book is there an Eurmaili cult write up?

No I think Gods of Glorantha Trickster is it. And no common divine.

[Erol of Backford]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

And no common divine.

Maybe a Trickster could be a member of another cult to gain common diving spells?

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

Maybe a Trickster could be a member of another cult to gain common diving spells?

But then the Trickster would have to put up with rules and regulations and routine rituals, not to mention swearing oaths... What Trickster would stand for that?!  Just to get some measly Common spells?  No, no, you're a TRICKSTER!  You "TRICK" others into providing those mundane things when you need them, not spend your days toiling in some temple... 😉

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

swearing oaths

Illuminated trickster...

[French Desperate WindChild]

42 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Illuminated trickster...

In non reusable rune spell for initiate (before rqg) eurmali are enough (too ?) powerful without common divine spell compared with other initiate pcs

If you add a second cult …

remember that is not only a question of rules, why a second cult will accept an eurmali (I mean roleplay issue) ?

why a second cult will teach secret ? Open the door of the inner temple ?with the risk to see everything disturbed or even destroyed or even cursed ?

 

[PhilHibbs]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Illuminated trickster...

As a GM that would be a hard "no". In theory if someone had an idea for a character concept that involved starting off illuminated I wouldn't just shut it down, but "I want to powergame a trickster and have all the common spells" doesn't quite cut it.

In any case, in RQ3 they would be one use.

[Jeff]

Eurmal is a mainstream cult in Sartar. In fact, it is a more common cult than Heler, Engizi, Odayla, Yinkin, etc.

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

And no common divine.

except for Divination, Extension, Multispell. (RQG 295)

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

"I want to powergame a trickster and have all the common spells"

But tricksters shouldn’t be able to rely on their magic. Storm Tribe, p. 66:

Quote

 

Tricksters gain access to Eurmal’s magic. This magic has an erratic source, which often causes random effects to the trickster and those around him. The prescribed Roles and the Trickster Bond … confine this erratic nature with ritual relationships. The erratic effects still occur, but only in the ways defined by the roles. This rarely helps the trickster, but does offer some protection to the normal humans around him.

Eurmal is neither theistic nor animistic nor sorcerous. He seems to partake of all three magic systems, with his powers wobbling back and forth among the Three Otherworlds in erratic cycles and switchbacks. A trickster must independently learn and increase any magic abilities he gains. Trickster magic does not work like affinities, grimoires, or spirits, but more like feats spells, and talents (although an ability can act as any of these at different times). The nature of Eurmal’s power is such that citing specific feats, spirits, or spells would be an endless and futile task. Nonetheless, the experts agree that Eurmal manifests powers through three runes [Disorder, Change, and Illusion].

 

Doubtless, there is a bunch of Hero Wars rules cruft and outdated metaphysics to wade through, but it should be easy enough to houserule something along these lines:

• a trickster cannot be sure of the point cost of a ‘spell’ before casting it — including who pays the cost (random tapping)
• a trickster cannot be sure of the effect of a ‘spell’ before casting it — including who it affects
• a trickster cannot be sure of the magnitude of a ‘spell’ before casting it
• a trickster cannot be sure of the chance of casting of a ‘spell’ before casting it
• to balance this, a trickster can improvise magical effects (subject to all of the above)
• if a trickster learns non-trickster magic — which will be hard for them — it is subject to all the constraints above

This could be arbitrarily complicated, or it could be very simple: the trickster player says what is supposed to happen, then the GM rolls a D4 or D6 to determine the number of things which go wrong and narrates whatever she thinks is amusing. If the GM cannot be trusted — perish the thought — draw misfire effects from a deck of cards. Elaborate to taste, for example allowing more control over weaker magics. So, for example, a trickster describes a weakened version of an effect she should be able to pull off, so the GM rolls D6-2, rolls a 4, and draws 2 misfire effects from the deck. You don’t need a special deck, just a table, which can be improvised on the spot, if need be (e.g. as a way of stake setting).

This way, you can have a trickster character who can cause carnage but not to order, and so cannot be a munchkin because the player lacks sufficient control. To me, this sounds like more fun than playing a bonded trickster — I would keep bonded tricksters for NPCs, but some will like putting on the gimp mask and the leash.

An illuminated trickster is fine, but what would they be like? Think Zorak Zoran, who saw the light but wound up more erratic than he was before: more power perhaps, but even less control. Even if an illuminated trickster is not spotted as an illuminant, they might be spotted as a trickster when their reality distortion field goes on the fritz.

[PhilHibbs]

16 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

No I think Gods of Glorantha Trickster is it. And no common divine.

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

except for Divination, Extension, Multispell. (RQG 295)

We were talking about RQ3, hence the mention of the Gods of Glorantha Trickster cult writeup.