Question about lost characteristic points

[Gallowglass]

Quick rules question, if you lose characteristic points to disease or something like that, can you recover lost points by resting? I can't find an answer in the rulebook, although it's probably in there somewhere. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

21 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

Quick rules question, if you lose characteristic points to disease or something like that, can you recover lost points by resting? I can't find an answer in the rulebook, although it's probably in there somewhere. 

I don't believe you can recover characteristic points by mere rest.  General hit points yes, by normal healing at your normal healing rate.  

To recover characteristic point loss you need either training (it's listed for STR, CON, POW, CHA and DEX but not INT or SIZ) or magic , or some potions if you have an alchemist or a generous GM.  That is what makes Gloranthan diseases so fearsome. They can undo your carefully minimaxed character.

Look it up under healing and diseases. In RQiG and the Red Book of Magic.  Also the Chalana Arroy section of the RQ2 CT Compendium or Cults of Prax.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Scotty]

On 1/15/2023 at 5:12 PM, Gallowglass said:

Quick rules question, if you lose characteristic points to disease or something like that, can you recover lost points by resting? I can't find an answer in the rulebook, although it's probably in there somewhere. 

Yes.

Quote

Is the Restore Health rune spell intended to be the only way of recovering lost characteristic points? The Core rulebook doesn’t seem to list any way of naturally recovering from disease and other things that cause characteristic loss.

Unless contradicted in the rules, assume one characteristic point is restored each season a successful CONx5 roll is made. If the characteristic point loss lasts beyond a year, it is not recovered. See the rules for recovering from Blotches (page 155) for a specific instance of this recovery rate.

Per https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-qa-by-chapter/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-chapter-06-game-system/#ib-toc-anchor-23

[Gallowglass]

12 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

To recover characteristic point loss you need either training (it's listed for STR, CON, POW, CHA and DEX but not INT or SIZ) or magic , or some potions if you have an alchemist or a generous GM.  That is what makes Gloranthan diseases so fearsome. They can undo your carefully minimaxed character.

 

The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about why a patient at a Chalana Arroy temple would need to stay for an extended period of time. The prevalence of powerful healing magic implies (to me) that most patients would be in and out quickly. But if resources are stretched thin, and a patient has nowhere else to go, it might make more sense to keep someone at the temple for a while. Recovery of lost characteristic points seems like one of the few instances in which it makes sense to keep someone at the temple, mainly because the Restore Health spell is expensive, and the patient's condition is not as serious compared to the sick or injured. On the other hand, a season is a very long time...

[Squaredeal Sten]

34 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about why a patient at a Chalana Arroy temple would need to stay for an extended period of time. The prevalence of powerful healing magic implies (to me) that most patients would be in and out quickly. But if resources are stretched thin, and a patient has nowhere else to go, it might make more sense to keep someone at the temple for a while. Recovery of lost characteristic points seems like one of the few instances in which it makes sense to keep someone at the temple, mainly because the Restore Health spell is expensive, and the patient's condition is not as serious compared to the sick or injured. On the other hand, a season is a very long time...

Powerful healing implies powerful obligations even if the CA cult doesn't explicitly charge.  One might incur a smaller obligation with a Healer of Arroin and some herbal potions, and a course of exercise to restore CON or STR.

I take it your desired stay is a season ?  Training generally requires a season.

 

[Gallowglass]

1 minute ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I take it your desired stay is a season ?  Training generally requires a season.

 

The question is more like, "if I were to set an adventure at a Chalana Arroy Temple, is it reasonable to expect some patients staying there for a few days, or even weeks? And what would keep them there if wounds and sickness can be cured immediately?" 

[Squaredeal Sten]

I can imagine that if. It is not urgent to get the patient out the door, rune magicwill not be used when there is a less costly cure like spirit magic, herbal potions, or what is in the Healer of Arroin's repertory.

You can't be using Heal Body all the time instead of  Heal 1 or First Aid.  Or the natural rate of healing.

But natural healing won't take a whole season.  Not even from scorpion man poison, at rate of 1HP every couple of days - no one has 40 HP to lose except a giant.  So STR or CON loss and a course of exercise under supervision would sound like what you want.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Last comments

[Akhôrahil]

14 hours ago, Gallowglass said:

Quick rules question, if you lose characteristic points to disease or something like that, can you recover lost points by resting? I can't find an answer in the rulebook, although it's probably in there somewhere. 

I run it that if you lost them from something mundane, like exhaustion or disease, you regain them through rest as though they were HPs.

It seems weird to me if you never recover naturally from mild diseases. I also like to give people CON damage for exhaustion or exposure (because regular damage is so trivial no-one cares), and then they deserve natural regain.

I don’t believe any of this is RAW, though.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[French Desperate WindChild]

14 hours ago, Gallowglass said:

The question is more like, "if I were to set an adventure at a Chalana Arroy Temple, is it reasonable to expect some patients staying there for a few days, or even weeks? And what would keep them there if wounds and sickness can be cured immediately?" 

If I understand well :

as a GM you want your pcs to stay few days in a CA temple but not too much (and what Scotty proposed seems to much to you)

 

In that case, I would propose that :

- pc will be healed by CA magic after the time you GM need

- but there is no opportunity before because the present healers don't have yet enough RP (they keep them for emergency, the already spent a lot, see the other sick npcs in a more critical condition, etc...)

- of course the priests will welcome the wounded and they will heal them as soon as possible

- but they have to prioritize

- so they will take care the pcs (they stay in the temple) as well as possible, until their turn comes

 

that let you the time to set an adventure in the temple or just to show that characteristic losses is not a little business and that pcs must be cautious

[Shiningbrow]

On 1/16/2023 at 2:03 AM, Gallowglass said:

The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about why a patient at a Chalana Arroy temple would need to stay for an extended period of time. The prevalence of powerful healing magic implies (to me) that most patients would be in and out quickly. But if resources are stretched thin, and a patient has nowhere else to go, it might make more sense to keep someone at the temple for a while. Recovery of lost characteristic points seems like one of the few instances in which it makes sense to keep someone at the temple, mainly because the Restore Health spell is expensive, and the patient's condition is not as serious compared to the sick or injured. On the other hand, a season is a very long time...

How about the basic - "Your service is much appreciated"?

Money is a great way to pay for your healing, but it's certainly not the only way. Not only to pay for healing, but for Healing spells and skills.

Speaking of which, I can see why people would stay at the healer's temple to improve a few skills - First Aid, Treat Poison/Disease, maybe even Alchemy or Plant Lore (specifically medicinal plants).

Similar to the first, but with a twist - your patron (eg, Leika or Kallyr) wants to give some support to the CA temple, and has asked the PCs to just lend a hand. This is especially appropriate if they've just stuffed up somewhere (eg, they've killed or wounded someone that has cost them/her, some unfortunate consequences of the PCs actions that she now needs to deal with).

Or, maybe, just because the High Priestess of CA has asked them to! Those are not the people you say 'no' to...

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

.......

Or, maybe, just because the High Priestess of CA has asked them to! Those are not the people you say 'no' to...

Indeed that one will be easy on the GM: The character, or better yet her quest giver patron,  was healed with rune magic, or even resurrected.  Instead of paying cash the obligation will be worked off. So stick around until Fire Season and then escort a CA party against the threat of broos while the CA deal with a disease outbreak.  Now you have accounted for at least one season, probably two.

[Arcadiagt5]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:43 AM, Scotty said:

Yes.

Per https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-qa-by-chapter/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-chapter-06-game-system/#ib-toc-anchor-23

Thanks. Would this also apply to POW lost to a failed attempt to attune to a powered crystal? 

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

Thanks. Would this also apply to POW lost to a failed attempt to attune to a powered crystal? 

Pretty sure that's a "no". I might allow natural recovery of any characteristic except POW, and even then it depends on the reason for loss, and getting access to Restore Health is by far the preferred option. Natural recovery through rest is going to take you out of adventuring for a while, and there are plenty of other things you can do with that time. It shouldn't be difficult for a community hero ace troubleshooter to get some Restore Health.

[Arcadiagt5]

36 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Pretty sure that's a "no". I might allow natural recovery of any characteristic except POW, and even then it depends on the reason for loss, and getting access to Restore Health is by far the preferred option. Natural recovery through rest is going to take you out of adventuring for a while, and there are plenty of other things you can do with that time. It shouldn't be difficult for a community hero ace troubleshooter to get some Restore Health.

Not exactly the answer I was hoping for but seems legit. Thanks

[Scotty]

8 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

Thanks. Would this also apply to POW lost to a failed attempt to attune to a powered crystal? 

No. I will amend the Q&A.

[Kloster]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:08 AM, Arcadiagt5 said:

Thanks. Would this also apply to POW lost to a failed attempt to attune to a powered crystal? 

 

On 1/27/2023 at 10:19 AM, PhilHibbs said:

Pretty sure that's a "no". I might allow natural recovery of any characteristic except POW, and even then it depends on the reason for loss, and getting access to Restore Health is by far the preferred option. Natural recovery through rest is going to take you out of adventuring for a while, and there are plenty of other things you can do with that time. It shouldn't be difficult for a community hero ace troubleshooter to get some Restore Health.

 

On 1/27/2023 at 12:01 PM, Scotty said:

No. I will amend the Q&A.

Does that mean that 'Restore Health' can restore those POW points lost? Could it work for POW spent, let's say, for learning spells or creating enchantments? Litterally, it seems that yes, but of course, the sensible answer seem to me to be no.

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, Kloster said:

 

 

Does that mean that 'Restore Health' can restore those POW points lost? Could it work for POW spent, let's say, for learning spells or creating enchantments? Litterally, it seems that yes, but of course, the sensible answer seem to me to be no.

I hope it doesn’t !

imagine a shaman with some healers: +10 - 20 - more pow per season to the fetch ?

in all cases I would play that anything you decide to sacrifice cannot be restored

Too easy

I do a big sacrifice… wait a minute can I get back my sacrifice and keep its benefit ?

[Kloster]

13 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I hope it doesn’t !

So do I. This is why I am asking.

[PhilHibbs]

POW is more of a currency than a characteristic. Having said that, all characteristics have a "currency" aspect to them, as shamans can sacrifice any characteristic to reset the shamanic ability cost and that that "loss" shouldn't be restorable with a spell.

[Squaredeal Sten]

The shaman could have sacrificed SIZ.  So is SIZ now recoverable with rest under this ruling?

 

[Scotty]

Per the Q&A:

Note that this only applies to STR, CON, DEX, INT, CHA, and not POW or SIZ.

Quote

Is the Restore Health rune spell intended to be the only way of recovering lost characteristic points? The Core rulebook doesn’t seem to list any way of naturally recovering from disease and other things that cause characteristic loss.

Unless contradicted in the rules, assume one characteristic point is restored each season a successful CONx5 roll is made. If the characteristic point loss lasts beyond a year, it is not recovered. See the rules for recovering from Blotches (page 155) for a specific instance of this recovery rate.

Note that this only applies to STR, CON, DEX, INT, CHA, and not POW or SIZ.

 

[Kloster]

Sorry Scotty, my question was about the spell 'Restore Health'. RQG P337 (by the way, the index says 338): "This spell restores characteristic points that have been lost to disease, to the effects of the sorcery spell Tapping, or to other sources. This spell does not cure any disease that may be present. It does not restore characteristics lost due to death. Each Rune point of Restore Health restores one point of a specified characteristic. Use of this spell can restore characteristic points only up to their value prior to being lost."

[Scotty]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

Sorry Scotty, my question was about the spell 'Restore Health'. RQG P337 (by the way, the index says 338): "This spell restores characteristic points that have been lost to disease, to the effects of the sorcery spell Tapping, or to other sources. This spell does not cure any disease that may be present. It does not restore characteristics lost due to death. Each Rune point of Restore Health restores one point of a specified characteristic. Use of this spell can restore characteristic points only up to their value prior to being lost."

Yes. Restore Health could restore POW lost to disease, Tapping or other sources. If you've spent the POW deliberately, it's not been "lost".  

[Kloster]

52 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yes. Restore Health could restore POW lost to disease, Tapping or other sources. If you've spent the POW deliberately, it's not been "lost".  

Thanks Scotty for the clarification. Stats spent (for spells or other) can not be recovered with 'Restore Health'. Good news.

[Godlearner]

5 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The shaman could have sacrificed SIZ.  So is SIZ now recoverable with rest under this ruling?

I always assumed that sacrificied stats are not regainable, otherwise its not really a sacrifice.