A question about Spirit Cults

[Shiningbrow]

16 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

Again, this is already a thing, it’s called propitiation. It is not the same thing as initiation.

I'm not sure that's what's been intended in the writings.

Yes, there is propitiary worship, but I don't think they've indicated that POW needs to be sacrificed. I've always assumed that it's a 'normal' worship ceremony, in which MPs are given... And that's what I would assume - there's no connection  made between the person and the malign entity.

Thus, the difference between Malia, and my example above (I don't see it as propitiation, but cult secret).

[Shiningbrow]

21 hours ago, radmonger said:

Which i guess shows that, while NPCs can do what they want, if you want to have players initiate in a cult, you probably are well served by writing down what their magic can do.  The rune spell format works well for this, although sometimes one of the other magic systems works better....

And everything is going to play much smoother if the character, player and gm are all on the same page as to how things work.

To a large extent, this goes back to who the rulebooks are related to. Are they only meant for PCs? Or are they supposed to incorporate NPCs as well?

I'd say, they have to be for the NPCs as well, so the GMs can write them up.

So, while there may be a spirit cult that doesn't give Rune spells probably won't be taken up by PCs (unless there's a really good reason to), it is important to have them in the books somewhere so that a GM can take that as a guide. (better than "YGMV, so you do it all yourself")

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm not sure that's what's been intended in the writings.

yes, your interpretation was common, and probably correct, for rq2 rules.  Initiates sacrificed POW, lay members didn't.

To go from vampires to squids, tales of the reaching moon #10 has a Magasta cult writeup. That has not-always-voluntary 'initiates', who have to donate an additional 2 POW annually to remain a member, but get no magical benefits. While the full priests get to summon kraken.

Part of the change in RQ:G to give initiates reusable rune magic was effectively dropping the initiation tax. 1 POW gets you first cult RP, or your 10th. So now the rules distinction between lay members and initiates is whether they have cult RP, not whether they spent POW.

So I'd imagine a RQ:G writeup of that version of Magasta would have it be  lay members who do the sacrificing, as in the Malia and Vivamort, and maybe it doesn't have initiate members at all.

 

 

[metcalph]

14 minutes ago, radmonger said:

To go from vampires to squids, tales of the reaching moon #10 has a Magasta cult writeup. That has not-always-voluntary 'initiates', who have to donate an additional 2 POW annually to remain a member, but get no magical benefits. While the full priests get to summon kraken.

They get access to rune spells for being an initiate.  The sacrifice of additional powe was to fuel Magasta's Pool, I'd thought.

[soltakss]

On 2/7/2023 at 7:09 AM, Shiningbrow said:

There is NO requirement that the deity/spirit gives anything back to the initiate - at all! It may help with a DI, but that's also unlikely a lot of the time.

Well, there is, because the point of POW spent adds to the Rune Pool, and any increase in the Rune Pool allows an Adventurers to learn a new Runespell. p313-314 of the RQG Rules has this quote:

Quote

An adventurer gains access to cult special or associated cult Rune spells at the same time they sacrifice POW for Rune points. For each point of POW sacrificed, the adventurer acquires the right to cast an additional cult special Rune magic spell. As the magical link between the cultist and the deity deepens, the adventurer also gains a broader use of the deity’s power.

 

[Shiningbrow]

13 hours ago, soltakss said:

Well, there is, because the point of POW spent adds to the Rune Pool, and any increase in the Rune Pool allows an Adventurers to learn a new Runespell. p313-314 of the RQG Rules has this quote:

 

But.. the RQG only lists a handful of cults, and even the upcoming GoGs won't list every possible entity you could sacrifice POW to.

The world of Glorantha is not restricted by the RQG rulebooks.

[Jeff]

16 hours ago, soltakss said:

Well, there is, because the point of POW spent adds to the Rune Pool, and any increase in the Rune Pool allows an Adventurers to learn a new Runespell. p313-314 of the RQG Rules has this quote:

 

Not all deities have power to lend, even to their initiates.

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Not all deities have power to lend, even to their initiates.

So it is possible to initiate to such entities? is there any restriction, or could you just go round declaring yourself an initiate of Arachne Solara, a random rock, or whatever?

Would that just mean you get the rune pool, but have nothing to spend it on?

i suppose there is a plausible case of an entity that only offered 2 point or greater spells, which couldn't be cast from a 1 point RP. And them maybe some of the entities that are normally considered beyond the reach of mortal worship, like Aether or Glorantha, could actually potentially give out magic.

All you need is to get your RP high enough to cast the smallest spell they have available. if that is, say, 30 points, then only the likes of Cragspider can actually cast it.

 

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 minute ago, radmonger said:

or could you just go round declaring yourself an initiate of Arachne Solara

i thought that Cragspider was in fact an initiate of Arachne Solara, isn't that her entire shtick?

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/a/aranea/cragspider/

Edited February 10, 2023 by Qizilbashwoman

[hipsterinspace]

3 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

i thought that Cragspider was in fact an initiate of Arachne Solara, isn't that her entire shtick?

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/a/aranea/cragspider/

I was under the impression Aranea was a different entity, that she offers spider magic as a child of Kropa and sister of Gorakiki to her mostly troll followers, while Arachnae Solara is the primordial goddess Glorantha.

[Akhôrahil]

13 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

i thought that Cragspider was in fact an initiate of Arachne Solara, isn't that her entire shtick?

Bunches of people in The Smoking Ruins are Initiates of Arachne Solara, including with Rune Magic. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

13 hours ago, radmonger said:

So it is possible to initiate to such entities?

Nysalor would be one example of a god with Initiates who also provides no Rune Magic.

[radmonger]

If i remember correctly, Cragspider's magical power in the dragon pass boardgame was to destroy every living thing in seven map hexes, on a scale where several military units fit in each map hex. 

That's a greater level of destruction than entire lunar magical artillery regiments. If that is some form of rune magic (i.e. power granted by worship or emulation) then the Cragspider must be channeling something big.

A 30 point rune spell would actually be pretty mechanically interesting. You could learn it in day 1 of a campaign, and then spend an entire heroic career trying to get your stats high enough to have a rune poll big enough to cast it.

 

 

 

[g33k]

On 2/10/2023 at 10:05 AM, hipsterinspace said:

I was under the impression Aranea was a different entity, that she offers spider magic as a child of Kropa and sister of Gorakiki to her mostly troll followers, while Arachnae Solara is the primordial goddess Glorantha.

I think there are never-clarified hints that the shared spiderform (shared by ArachneSolara & Aranea) hints at some underlying relationship... possibly even some sort of identification between them.

Nothing firm, nothing "stated," just hints.

But I cannot for the life of me recall where I read those.