The night sky

[D]

I've been building a model of the night sky for my Apple lane build and I thought people might like to see it. it is the view from the southern edge of the sky dome

 

[Shiningbrow]

Very cool what you've done !

I had always thought that a) the Red Moon was MUCH bigger, and b) the White and Blue Moons would be much smaller (barely perceptible), otherwise they'd have a much greater cultic following.

I don't recognise Polestar, which I would have expected to be fairly central to upper central, and pretty much in the same spot. And more obvious than most other stars/planets/gods/spirits.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Shiningbrow

[D]

thank you.

Polestar is just left of centre near the top of the video, its pale green. When there are other things, like buildings etc, in view the Red moon seems quite large, but I may tweak it. I haven't place the White and Blue moon's in this build, but may do as work progresses. The planets / stars that don't rotate with the dome and are visible are, Mastakos, Lightfore, Entekos, Lokarnos, Twinstars, Shargash, Artia, the boat planet, Orlanths ring, Kalikos, Rausa and Theya

[jajagappa]

40 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

b) the White and Blue Moons would be much smaller

Are you thinking that Lightfore and Mastakos are moons?

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Are you thinking that Lightfore and Mastakos are moons?

Apparently..... 😓

Again, i didn't think those would be so large (especially compared to the Red Moon...)

I had envisaged most things in the sky to be somewhat small(er) - other than the aforementioned.

[D]

i thought they were a good size, their apparent size might be because of the filming angle, Unreal engine can do funny things with perspective, it's why this done in version 5 and doesn't have Apple Lane in it 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Again, i didn't think those would be so large (especially compared to the Red Moon...)

I think Lightfore has generally been presented as similar in size to our RW moon so looked correct to me. The other planets seemed to be reasonable size. (Not sure if Shargash was there, but I think supposed to be close to Lightfore in size too.)

[D]

the big yellow thing is Yelm, sorry forgot to add that to the list.  I left it orbiting to show passage of time  Lightfore does need resizing. Shargash is the red planet near Orlanths ring

[Shiningbrow]

20 hours ago, D said:

the big yellow thing is Yelm,

Ohhh... it was the colour (and the black background where I could still see stars) that threw me!

[D]

6 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Ohhh... it was the colour (and the black background where I could still see stars) that threw me!

understandable.

[Joerg]

On 5/3/2023 at 6:15 PM, jajagappa said:

I think Lightfore has generally been presented as similar in size to our RW moon so looked correct to me. The other planets seemed to be reasonable size. (Not sure if Shargash was there, but I think supposed to be close to Lightfore in size too.)

Not so much size but luminosity. Tolat/Shargash is bigger but less luminous.

The star map in the Guide p.645 seems to have Orlanth's Ring following the rotation of the sky dome, but the text description seems to work like your steadily ascending western rise. (The ritual of the Dragonrise dance may have had the ring in different places, as the Orlanthi dancers did half a week's motion in a single night.)

[D]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

The star map in the Guide p.645 seems to have Orlanth's Ring following the rotation of the sky dome, but the text description seems to work like your steadily ascending western rise. (The ritual of the Dragonrise dance may have had the ring in different places, as the Orlanthi dancers did half a week's motion in a single night.)

I noticed that a few weeks ago. I've been working off of the descriptions and only using the star map for referencing the stars that move with sky dome. I decided not to try and plot the location of Orlanths ring during the Dragon Rise, as it would be too complicated, plotting the orbit of the Boat planet was hard enough 

[Erol of Backford]

D, where is the viewer of this video positioned on Glorantha is there a spot on a map? Does it matter which season it is? I suppose the sky elements move but according to their own travels related to a stationary Glorantha rather than any tilting or rotation of flat Glorantha?

This brings a whole new meaning to sitting by the fire at a Praxian Morokanth BBQ eating seasoned herdman skewers on a stick.

[D]

26 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

D, where is the viewer of this video positioned on Glorantha is there a spot on a map? Does it matter which season it is? I suppose the sky elements move but according to their own travels related to a stationary Glorantha rather than any tilting or rotation of flat Glorantha?

This brings a whole new meaning to sitting by the fire at a Praxian Morokanth BBQ eating seasoned herdman skewers on a stick.

the viewer is at the southern edge of the sky dome, it was the best location I could find for getting the widest view and not having to move the camera, I tried doing one looking straight up at Pole star but couldn't get a decent amount of the sky in. The video starts in the second week of Sea season 1624 so I could include the Boat planet and the extra stars in Orlanths ring.

The Sky dome tilts North and then South as the year progresses and the dome rotates just over 360 degrees a day so as the year goes on, Yelm rises in a different constellation. 

[Erol of Backford]

On 5/7/2023 at 3:24 PM, D said:

so I could include the Boat planet and the extra stars in Orlanths ring

I had just read through the Boat Planet scenario last week and was wondering. Thanks again.

On 5/7/2023 at 3:24 PM, D said:

the viewer is at the southern edge of the sky dome

So is that the southernmost edge of Pamaltela or beyond in the Sea of Fire, red arrow in clip below?

On 5/7/2023 at 3:24 PM, D said:

it was the best location I could find for getting the widest view and not having to move the camera

Makes sense to me, I suppose if Glorantha doesn't curve/is flat you see everything higher then the terrain near you so being at the center point of Glorantha is critical. If you were at the center point would Yelm go directly overhead each day no matter the season.

Sorry if these are basic questions but I have not thought much about the sky dome, Orlanth's Ring, the Boat Planet, etc until very recently and more so due to your post.

Following this rabbit hole I found some of Mr. Richard's nores: Glorantha is a flat world surmounted by a Sky Dome. The Sky Dome itself tilts back and forth, north and south, each year. Lots of stuff on FB which I don't have but am able to see a good portion of thankfully...

Thanks again for the video. 

 

[D]

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Makes sense to me, I suppose if Glorantha doesn't curve/is flat you see everything higher then the terrain near you so being at the center point of Glorantha is critical. If you were at the center point would Yelm go directly overhead each day no matter the season.

Yelm's path tilts with the Sky dome as the seasons change, so he always crosses the centre of the dome.

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Sorry if these are basic questions but I have not thought much about the sky dome, Orlanth's Ring, the Boat Planet, etc until very recently and more so due to your post.

 don't worry, they're not basic questions, I've found that the more you look into how the night sky works, the more complicated it gets.

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Thanks again for the video. 

You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it useful

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So is that the southernmost edge of Pamaltela or beyond in the Sea of Fire, red arrow in clip below?

yes, roughly where you red arrow is.

Edited May 7, 2023 by D
messed up quote boxes, had to redo one of them

[Kettlehelm]

Very useful since I couldn't quite understand how Orlanth's ring "spiralled" across the sky.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Kettlehelm

[D]

1 hour ago, Kettlehelm said:

Very useful since I couldn't quite understand how Orlanth's ring "spiralled" across the sky.

I'm glad you found it useful. Orlanths ring is a bit odd.

[Bren]

On 5/3/2023 at 6:47 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I had always thought that a) the Red Moon was MUCH bigger

I too thought the Red Moon would be larger. I thought that, when full, the Red Moon would have at least the apparent brightness of an earthly full moon. Which would probably necessitate it being much larger than our moon and/or else much brighter.

 

On 5/3/2023 at 4:41 AM, D said:

I've been building a model of the night sky for my Apple lane build and I thought people might like to see it. it is the view from the southern edge of the sky dome

Thanks so much for building and sharing this! How the sky works and how it appears are two things I find confusing in Glorantha. And given how familiar with the sky Bronze age folks would be, not knowing how to describe the sky is a big gap in my ability to depict Glorantha to my players.

Have you thought about building a version with the day sky? It would be interesting to see how the Red Moon appears in the day time.

[D]

13 hours ago, Bren said:

I too thought the Red Moon would be larger. I thought that, when full, the Red Moon would have at least the apparent brightness of an earthly full moon. Which would probably necessitate it being much larger than our moon and/or else much brighter.

 

Thanks so much for building and sharing this! How the sky works and how it appears are two things I find confusing in Glorantha. And given how familiar with the sky Bronze age folks would be, not knowing how to describe the sky is a big gap in my ability to depict Glorantha to my players.

Have you thought about building a version with the day sky? It would be interesting to see how the Red Moon appears in the day time.

I'm glad you like it.

scaling the apparent size of the Red moon is a bit tricky, it does look bigger when there's other objects in view. I have been using the night sky in my Apple Lane build, but there is an issue with Unreal engine 4 that makes the stars get bigger the closer to the edge of the screen they are so I decided not to use that for filming the night sky. It doesn't occur in Unreal engine 5, I plan to convert the Apple Lane build to UE5, but it's a bit time consuming. 

the attached picture show a day time view from the top of the tower in Apple Lane, looking north. The Red Moon, Orlanth's ring and Shargash are visible. You can also see the visual issues I'm having with the apparent leaning of the temple in the bottom left corner 

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

? As it comes through my Android device I don't see any astronomical objects, just a glow across the lower sky.

 

[mfbrandi]

56 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

? As it comes through my Android device I don't see any astronomical objects, just a glow across the lower sky.

On that last still, you mean? If so:

Spoiler

I hope labelled correctly — I am no Gloranthan astronomer.

[David Scott]

Don't forget to have a look at the venerable Movable Ephemeris and the Gloranthan Sky

I can easily run the web page using the free CheerpJ Applet Runner extension in Chrome. You don’t need to install Java. Click the Gloranthan Sky link to open the page, then click the CheerpJ icon in the toolbar – it just loads and works! Click the invisible square below to see how it looks (image is there but won't load).

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by David Scott
fixed image

[D]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

? As it comes through my Android device I don't see any astronomical objects, just a glow across the lower sky.

 

sorry about that, I posted it from my PC, Mfbrandi is correct with the labelling.

is this one clearer?

 

[D]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

I hope labelled correctly — I am no Gloranthan astronomer.

You did, thank you