MOVE and Speed in BRP

[Atgxtg]

THis one is for those with a copy of the game.

What are the MOVE rates in BRO, and how does that relate to the distance a character can cover in a melee round?

I read that Humans have MOVE 10, Horse MOVE 12, but do they give a MOve rate for a vehicle?

Just wondering so I can get the vehicle Move rate in line with the character rates.

[Chaot]

If no one answers before I get home from work I'll pull out the book and give you an answer.

As a side note, I never liked how Move was assigned a number. I houseruled that Move=(Dex + Siz)/2. It works well.

[Enpeze]

If no one answers before I get home from work I'll pull out the book and give you an answer.

As a side note, I never liked how Move was assigned a number. I houseruled that Move=(Dex + Siz)/2. It works well.

SIZ? then maybe some people would like to play fatman in your game.

[Enpeze]

THis one is for those with a copy of the game.

What are the MOVE rates in BRO, and how does that relate to the distance a character can cover in a melee round?

I read that Humans have MOVE 10, Horse MOVE 12, but do they give a MOve rate for a vehicle?

Just wondering so I can get the vehicle Move rate in line with the character rates.

Interesting question. Its time for a handy linear speed/Move table. In Gurps there is one such table and cleverly its combined with minus modifiers on shooting. (shooting at moving targets with different speed and shooting if the shooter is moving itsself with a certain speed)

[TrippyHippy]

Exactly - it's actually pretty difficult to calculate movement in a rpg system.

There are several factors - physical strength and balance, muscle type and gait, physical fitness and what type of movement you are actually trying to do (sprinting or long distance?).

[Atgxtg]

Exactly - it's actually pretty difficult to calculate movement in a rpg system.

There are several factors - physical strength and balance, muscle type and gait, physical fitness and what type of movement you are actually trying to do (sprinting or long distance?).

It really isn't that difficult. Human beings all move within a certain speed range, and it's not hard to comeup with something that works in that range. I mean, it isn't any more complex than the factors involved in sword fighting, or archery, and we run those off all the time.

The MOVE 10 is almost right for m/sec for an person sprinting over a short distance. Probably just right for combat.

But, to get new things, like cars and planes working on the same scale as as everything else, we need to see what the MOVE rates are for various creatures, and how far a character is allowed to move in a round.

[Chaot]

I've had a chance to glance over the movement rules for vehicles. It actually operates on two different systems. Vehicles have a 'Rated Speed' and Creatures have a 'Move.' To give you a comparison, under the equipment section, a horse has a Rate Speed of 2. Under the Creatures section, a horse has the Move of 12.

[drohem]

I've had a chance to glance over the movement rules for vehicles. It actually operates on two different systems. Vehicles have a 'Rated Speed' and Creatures have a 'Move.' To give you a comparison, under the equipment section, a horse has a Rate Speed of 2. Under the Creatures section, a horse has the Move of 12.

The Vehicle chart on p. 267 shows both attributes for vehicles: there is a Rated Speed and MOV for each vehicle.

On p.265 in the descriptions of the attributes of vehicles, it explains that the Rated Speed is used in the abstract chase rules, and the MOV is the maximum speed of a vehicle in a combat round.

When I read the chase rules on p.216-217, it seems that there is no connection between Rated Speed and MOV. As I understood it, the two things are exculsive of each other. The chase rules are used in abstract abjudication of a chase sequence; whereas, the MOV score is specific to a combat round.

[Chaot]

SIZ? then maybe some people would like to play fatman in your game.

Well...

I rather view it as an artifact of the system. DEX is a combination of agility and manual dexterity. SIZ is a combination of height and weight.

If you're a big guy or gal, you're going to control the movement options in your immediate area. If you're dealing with an extended movement contest, you're going to have to deal with CON checks. I view 'fatman' as a character with a high SIZ and a low CON. I also think Aragorn (who is tall and healthy) can cover more ground than Frodo (who is short and healthy). Hence, the houserule.

After POW, SIZ is the strongest stat in BRP. It affects both damage bonus and hit points. Anyone who wants to 'game' the system is goning to put points in SIZ, and not for a high MOV stat.

[Chaot]

The Vehicle chart on p. 267 shows both attributes for vehicles: there is a Rated Speed and MOV for each vehicle.

You're right, I missed that. I will point out that the horse MOV is 4 on that chart and the Creature write up is MOV 12.

Mind you, I'm not being critical of the book. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency because Atgxtg asked.

[drohem]

You're right, I missed that. I will point out that the horse MOV is 4 on that chart and the Creature write up is MOV 12.

Mind you, I'm not being critical of the book. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency because Atgxtg asked.

Totally...I caught that inconsistency as well. I would just like to know I am missing something simple that would explain these different MOV attributes. See my others posts in the Q&A with author thread.

I am not trying to nitpick, I would like to understand it so I can play with it.

[Atgxtg]

Well, it all sort of depends on where everything else rates on the move scale. While real life running speeds for humans can, and do vary considerably, we don't want althets zipping past horses and cheetahs. Nor do we want to see elephants outrunning horses because of higher SIZ.

All in all I'd think SIZ cancels out. Higher SIZ might means a longer stride, but it would also mean more mass to move.

At the moment I'm not really worried about human MOV scores but about how fast the cars, and horses are.

With Horse Move rate at 12, I wouldn't go with a formula that can give humans a higher move rate.

But based on the movement rate of 30m/turn for a character and the values listed for vehicles, like a 200Move sports car, and 83 move modern tank, I'm thinking that MOve translates fairly well into kph.

33m/turn =10kph which is fairly close to the 30m move rate for a running character. And a 200kph sports car, 166kph motorcyle and 83kph modern tank all work.

The 12kph/36m per round rate for horses seems a little slow, but since horses can maintain thier top speed longer than a human perhaps horse speed is for a canter, and a gallpoing horse would use perhaps use the sprinting factor like a human (50m vs. 30m or 55m/round) for a top Move of 20. Not as fast as a horse can go, but pretty close to what a horse can sustain.

Then again the 30m/turn rate for a human is closer to a real world walking rate (it's 5.5mph) than a real world running rate anyway.

[NickMiddleton]

Totally...I caught that inconsistency as well. I would just like to know I am missing something simple that would explain these different MOV attributes. See my others posts in the Q&A with author thread.

I am not trying to nitpick, I would like to understand it so I can play with it.

Bear in mind that what you currently have is effectively a proof copy - please DO nit pick, in the sense of letting SOMEONE (either Jason or Chaosium) know about any of these inconsistencies as then there is some chance they'll get fixed before the book goes to print. I'm hoping that these sorts of glitches will have been caught by the proof readers for whom the proof edition was originally intended, but drawing Chaosium's attention to them (perhaps with a stickied list here, rather than swamping them with emails?) can't hurt.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[Shaira]

I'm hoping that these sorts of glitches will have been caught by the proof readers for whom the proof edition was originally intended, but drawing Chaosium's attention to them (perhaps with a stickied list here, rather than swamping them with emails?) can't hurt.

I second that. Stickied list, Triff?

It'll also help us to not report things multiple times, etc, plus compile a basic errata list, etc. I've kind of assumed that Zero Editioners are kind of a last-chance bug-catch snagging team anyway!

[Trifletraxor]

All in all I'd think SIZ cancels out. Higher SIZ might means a longer stride, but it would also mean more mass to move.

SIZ cancels out between the different species, but not between the individual creatures within one. A larger elefant will probably move faster than a smaller one, and a 190 cm human will probably run faster than a 150 cm one. With RuneQuest three I calculated MOVE for Humans as (DEX+SIZ)/8 - with an average of 3 (which was the average then), but possibility for higher or lower MOVE rates. This type of calculation would need a different formula for each species though, so I only made it for PC species and important mounts.

I second that. Stickied list, Triff?

It'll also help us to not report things multiple times, etc, plus compile a basic errata list, etc. I've kind of assumed that Zero Editioners are kind of a last-chance bug-catch snagging team anyway!

What about using thread with preview images from the Zero edition? It's stickied allready?

SGL.

[threedeesix]

SIZ? then maybe some people would like to play fatman in your game.

In RQ, SIZ was based on weight. In BRP it is based on height. Once height (SIZ) is determined, weight is then chosen from a rather large overlapping range.

Rod

[Atgxtg]

SIZ cancels out between the different species, but not between the individual creatures within one. A larger elefant will probably move faster than a smaller one, and a 190 cm human will probably run faster than a 150 cm one. With RuneQuest three I calculated MOVE for Humans as (DEX+SIZ)/8 - with an average of 3 (which was the average then), but possibility for higher or lower MOVE rates. This type of calculation would need a different formula for each species though, so I only made it for PC species and important mounts.

I'm not so sure. The old square-cube law might apply. Someone twice as large would have four times the muscle, but eight times the mass. Based On what I've read on running, it is a high center of gravity that is important.

I'd probably be inclined to give a base rate and then tack on a bonus for making a running roll. Realistically about 9m/sec with +1 for success, +2 for special and +3 for critical. It is a lot simpler and probably gives better results, at least for RPG purposes.

If we want to fit this in with the running rates in BRP. THen we could use 30 or 50m as the base and add 10m for a successful run roll, 20 for a special and 30 for a critical.

By the way, doe anyone know if there is a Run skill in the new BRP book?

I got a table of animal speeds, and it would be easy to work up an average and then add a bonus for running skill. Maybe even up the bonus for running to x2 or x4 for horses and such.

[Jason D]

You're right, I missed that. I will point out that the horse MOV is 4 on that chart and the Creature write up is MOV 12.

Mind you, I'm not being critical of the book. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency because Atgxtg asked.

You know, if there's one thing about BRP that I would have utterly expunged and done over from scratch, it's movement. Trying to reconcile an already fuzzy system with five different game lines that covered it was no small feat, and I'm sure there are still some wonky bits.

The vehicle chart MOV listings on page 267 are based on a travel MOV speed per combat round, assuming one isn't trying to sprint at top speed or overcharge the afterburner. I suspect that the key to that table needs to be rewritten.

The creature MOV listings are based more on a tactical situation, and are assumed to be less-than-sustainable over the long haul.

drohem is correct in that the Chase system values are not intended to be plugged into the character scale - they are their own subsystem and have their own purposes.

However, I am looking at this thread and the soon-to-be-created thread for last-minute changes, and if you see anything that raises a red flag, let me know here or there.

[threedeesix]

You're right, I missed that. I will point out that the horse MOV is 4 on that chart and the Creature write up is MOV 12.

Mind you, I'm not being critical of the book. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency because Atgxtg asked.

I noted this a couple playtest reports ago. Granted this was more than likely after the zero edition was laid out so still may get taken care of.

Rod

[threedeesix]

Wow, Jason was replying to the same thread at the same time. Well done.

Rod

[Jason D]

Bear in mind that what you currently have is effectively a proof copy - please DO nit pick, in the sense of letting SOMEONE (either Jason or Chaosium) know about any of these inconsistencies as then there is some chance they'll get fixed before the book goes to print. I'm hoping that these sorts of glitches will have been caught by the proof readers for whom the proof edition was originally intended, but drawing Chaosium's attention to them (perhaps with a stickied list here, rather than swamping them with emails?) can't hurt.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

I've created a thread (hopefully to be sticked soon) for this very purpose.

Thanks, Nick!

[Jason D]

By the way, doe anyone know if there is a Run skill in the new BRP book?

There isn't.

It's assumed that the GM and players would either use an Agility roll or a DEX resistance roll.

There is no reason that a Running skill can't be added as the GM sees fit, however.

[Trifletraxor]

I've created a thread (hopefully to be sticked soon) for this very purpose.

Thanks, Nick!

Okeidokei Jason, sticky it is! :thumb:

SGL.

[threedeesix]

By the way, doe anyone know if there is a Run skill in the new BRP book?

I suggest this a while ago but there isn't. I created one as a house rule that is based on the climb skill. In other words, a successful Run roll lets you move at "normal" MOV rate and each degree of success or failure modifies that.

Rod

[Atgxtg]

You know, if there's one thing about BRP that I would have utterly expunged and done over from scratch, it's movement. Trying to reconcile an already fuzzy system with five different game lines that covered it was no small feat, and I'm sure there are still some wonky bits.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree, I think either using one system or redoing from scratch would have been best.

BTW, the vehicle speeds for ground and air vehicles do seem to match up fairly well with real world speeds in kph. If these are "cruise rates" rather than sprint rates then kph works out great.

Chase speeds from CoC, assuming BRP is similar, were about vehicle mph/10. So about kph/15 or kph/20 might be a viable solution to get everything on the same scale.

Sorry for the fuss, just working on the vehicle design stuff and trying to get vehicle speeds into game terms. Right now about 3/4kph seems to be the best fit. That would put a sportscar with a 166mph/267kph top speed a MOV of 200, and a "modern" M1A2 tank with a top speed of around 69mph/110hph an MOVof 83.