Issaries cult spirits - spirits of Place

[Squaredeal Sten]

I was just re-reading Cults of Runequest- The Lightbringers, and noted on page 63 that cult spirits are "spirits of roads, pathways, and of commerce and communication."

The spirits of roads and pathways would be Genius Loci, to use a term from the Bestiary page 170.  But  I am drawing a blank on what such a spirit might be like, except that it would tend to be confined to that place.  (Which might be pretty big if you consider that all roads on a continent are connected.).  The only reason to summon such a cult spirit that I can think of is essentially Pathwatch.

What else can you think of in this context?

The other category, spirits of commerce and communication, seems vague to me.  What do I get if i get a spirit of commerce?  A spirit of advertising, or of discounting a flow of payments to present value?  (Would this last be more appropriate as an Etyries spirit?)

A spirit of communication might at least teach you a new language in the same way that other spirits might teach a spell.  .Or might be a bound spirit who will translate, for example bound as a Ring of Speaking New Pelorian.  This is a concept that I have not encountered in RuneQuest adventures,, but it does also seem implied by the Bestiary page 166.  It seems a very convenient thing to me. 

What else comes to your mind   here?

What I don't see in these categories is a spirit of a deceased Issaries initiate, which I might expect as an allied spirit.

Edited May 20 by Squaredeal Sten
spelling / typing

[M Helsdon]

18 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The other category, spirits of commerce and communication, seems vague to me.  What do I get if i get a spirit of commerce? 

A deceased merchant's spirit would be a spirit of commerce; a deceased herald would be a spirit of communication. 

[scott-martin]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

But  I am drawing a blank on what such a spirit might be like, except that it would tend to be confined to that place.  (Which might be pretty big if you consider that all roads on a continent are connected.).  The only reason to summon such a cult spirit that I can think of is essentially Pathwatch.

They are often Pathwatchers. 

One thing to consider is that a "road" is by definition a liminal space more important for existing "between" the points on the map where settled life unfolds. Conventional genii loci tend to coalesce around a persistent natural or built feature of the landscape. They don't travel. If you want to see them you generally have to go where they are. They're largely nouns. Road spirits are more transactional (verbs) and so are a way to manage the experience of progress across space (locus). This is not to say that they're boring or abstract or featureless entities like a roadside chain restaurant . . . they can be as rich and storied as their route allows . . . but if it helps, think of them as expressing a heavier narrative (time) element as people who are intimate with a given road will learn and remember roughly "where and when" on the journey certain things tend to happen. 

Some roads do not have real endpoints and so like you say you can stay on the road network your whole life (and beyond!) without dropping back into "normal" settled space. You can interact with any fraction of the larger road experience you like . . . from the painstakingly specific to the useless universal. They have whatever magic they have. Keep in mind that Issaries cult spirits have access to Spell Trading and so can accumulate truly bizarre effect inventories to rival any storied ancestral lineage.

It might help to think about song lines. This is a backdoor to "station-to-station" heroquesting or "pathworking" of course but no need to get that fancy. The Issaries cult is almost infinitely flexible and so can incorporate its own flavor of shamanism, hrestol idealistic adventurism ("errantry") and other forms of deep magic. We just don't call it that. "Psychopomp" will do well enough.

Edited May 20 by scott-martin
finishing the grammatical joke, getting practical in the middle

[Squaredeal Sten]

So if an Issaries is hunting for bandits who interfere with trade, he or she might summon a road spirit to identify places where robberies or kidnappings  happen.  Or  where the culprits went as long as their path was near the road.

 

 

Edited May 20 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Squaredeal Sten]

I wonder whether someone might voluntarily accept covert possession by a translator spirit.  

Pros and cons of this??

[Nick Brooke]

Glossolalia. It’s a pro and a con.

[scott-martin]

49 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Pros and cons of this??

Well it's always going to be pentecost somewhere.

[Brian Duguid]

Some fragmented thoughts, from a book on cult spirits started but not yet progressed very far:

- spirits of paths that will aid those who befriend them and hinder those who do not; the latter may wonder quite why their journey through the same territory seemed to take so much longer; these spirits may take the form of someone or something that made the path, such as a deer for a hill trail

- spirits of crossroads, which can again help or hinder but with regard to direction rather than time; a minority of these may hold the secrets to the direction not ordinarily visible, the spirit roads

- spirits of wayfinding, bound forever to repeat a specific journey, they could be a helpful companion for any merchant unfamiliar with a particular trade route

[mfbrandi]

14 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Conventional genii loci tend to coalesce around a persistent natural or built feature of the landscape. They don’t travel.

That was my first thought, too, but then I began to be charmed by @Squaredeal Sten’s conception of roads — and road networks — as places. On the one hand, we have things apart () and motion () between them, but on the other hand, we have the ansible () eliminating the gap. The network is here and it is there — but to the spirit of the network all nodes are here. The “lawful” alternative to reconciling and via ?

Spoiler

The TfL rune also has the horizontal bar, but joining nothing that wasn’t already joined. Cheeky!

14 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Issaries cult spirits have access to Spell Trading and so can accumulate truly bizarre effect inventories to rival any storied ancestral lineage.

A magical Amazon. A hell of a personal shopper.

14 hours ago, scott-martin said:

its own flavor of shamanism, hrestol idealistic adventurism

Those successfully tuned in to the spirits of the road are on the bus. The inevitable casualties are under it (per Alan Moore writing for Sounds). An Issaries shaman is addressed as “Neal”?

Edited May 21 by mfbrandi
punctuation

[David Scott]

15 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

What else can you think of in this context?

I think that these spirits should be looked in the context of Summon Cult Spirit and Command Cult spirit. So why would you summon these spirits. and then do they need commanding  and if they can be commanded what do they do:

Note that all of them can be commanded into a binding, which is likely the best use. I suspect that as every Issaries initiate has a statue, these are the obvious place to make a spirit binding. I'd also give them some context by associate them with Issaries Runes of Movement and Harmony. Build them using Creating a Spirit 164, RQ Bestiary. I see these as specialist spirits. For skill levels, use INTx5.

• roads - Movement. Give them a point of Pathwatch specific to their road, or mobility, and Farsee. You could fancy up the mobility by allowing it to multispell a caravan once to get it out of danger. as well as Farsee. They may have Customs (any),  and able to augment interactions where the trader is off their normal route.
• pathways - as roads, but specific to a tradepath. I'd let them have Detect Enemies too.
• commerce - Harmony. Let them have any Issaries commerce skill to use as an Augment - Bargain, Customs (any), Evaluate, and maybe Glamour. Make them specialists like a gem evaluator.  They may also have Glamour.
• communication - Harmony.  Let them have any Issaries communication skill to use as an Augment - Orate, and Speak (any) Language. Make them specific translators. They may also have Glamour. 

If you apply this to other cult spirits, it forms an easy to use template: Lhankor Mhy is served by spirits of knowledge and by the guardians of such knowledge.

• Knowlege - Truth. Let them have any Lhankor Mhy appropriate skill to use as an Augment: Read/Write (Any Languages), Any Lore skill, Bureaucracy, Customs (any), Evaluate, Library Use. Make them specialists, eg Read/Write New Pelorian, Customs (Balazar), etc. Some may have an appropriate Rune spell.
• Guardian of Knowledge - Stasis. Bind these into valuable texts or objects and they will attack transgressors in spirit combat.

[Ynneadwraith]

A spirit of the road could be a fantastic boon if you don't know your route. Has satellite navigation been around so long that we've forgotten how hard it could be beforehand?

It could be that 'getting lost on the road' isn't the most exciting thing to be roleplaying so it doesn't come up very often, but there's definite narrative potential in it (especially if the spirit of the road is deliberately confusing the route because it's been offended in some way). Or things like an ill-placed pothole hobbling a cart-horse perhaps.

Thinking about bandits/highwaymen, it would be very much worth their while to get into the good books of the road spirit of the stretch they frequent. It could be that when you're waylaid the road spirit is on their side!

As for communication spirits, I suppose it's not just the words you're saying being understood but the sentiment too. Say you come across a very wary (and very well armed) hsunchen band. You very much want to say 'we mean you no harm'. You might even know the words for 'we no hurt' in a language they'd understand, but would they believe you? A communication spirit might be able to help communicate the base sensation of 'we're not a threat to you' to them and diffuse the situation, or give you a hint as to what customs they have that get this message across (a mutual exchange of gifts for instance).

A spirit of commerce might be a 'quest initiator' for a wandering merchant. Something like a marketing lead. An insight into where there's opportunity to be had.

[Erol of Backford]

Do you see them as something like talking mileposts that only speak to cult traders bound to roadside shrines? Modern weighstations of sorts? Do you get the "trade weather forecast" from them? 30% chance of a big sale, 42% chance of several wagons/carts passing buy this afternoon?

Are they linked to the next cult spirit via some sort of ethereal Ethernet?

   

Would divination not work similarly if you ask the right question?

What information would be offered? Who was nearby recently, what is a hot commodity now? Does it tell of the other trader's personalities or if they were honest or not? The biggest question might be did they leave a good amount of money "on the table" if you will as a resultant of the last big transaction? 

I suppose all sorts of scenario links could be available as well. Is it like a coffee shop message board for Issaries initiates and more information is available to those of a higher cult rank or that make a greater donation?

[Byll]

Could the spirit of the road manifest as various migratory creatures that cross the region in different seasons? (but in this case shepherd travellers along a trail or road)

[M Helsdon]

I strongly suspect that there are Issaries way shrines on many trade routes, which receive offerings from passing caravans. These are probably inhabited or become inhabited by Issaries spirits and become the protective spirits of the way.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 5/23/2024 at 4:05 AM, Byll said:

Could the spirit of the road manifest as various migratory creatures that cross the region in different seasons? (but in this case shepherd travellers along a trail or road)

I would think that a road spirit could manifest as a traveler, if not as the creature that made the original trail (suggested above).    Or a malign road spirit could manifest as a bandit.  About that last, I could believe in either a spirit OF the road, or a spirit haunting a stretch of road.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 5/23/2024 at 4:24 AM, M Helsdon said:

I strongly suspect that there are Issaries way shrines on many trade routes, which receive offerings from passing caravans. These are probably inhabited or become inhabited by Issaries spirits and become the protective spirits of the way.

Or if you begin with a spirit of the road, some pious Issaries establishes the shrine to that spirit, as a means of thanks or as part of a bargain with the spirit.  Then of course someone can maintain that shrine as a service to the cult.  As I understand it Issaries has no god talkers, but a pious initiate might do this for the cult, and perhaps be rewarded.  No spell teaching from the shrine though, since initiates don"t yet have their doctoral degrees.

 

[jajagappa]

On 5/20/2024 at 1:49 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

But  I am drawing a blank on what such a spirit might be like, except that it would tend to be confined to that place.

The Riddling Raven of the Crossroads is one example.

The scarecrow spirit who only wants a brain (some of yours perhaps?) might be another.

The small singing spirits who respond to your questions and tell you to "Follow the XXX Road".

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 5/22/2024 at 3:34 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Do you see them as something like talking mileposts that only speak to cult traders bound to roadside shrines? Modern weighstations of sorts? Do you get the "trade weather forecast" from them? 30% chance of a big sale, 42% chance of several wagons/carts passing buy this afternoon?

Are they linked to the next cult spirit via some sort of ethereal Ethernet?

   

Would divination not work similarly if you ask the right question?

What information would be offered? Who was nearby recently, what is a hot commodity now? Does it tell of the other trader's personalities or if they were honest or not? The biggest question might be did they leave a good amount of money "on the table" if you will as a resultant of the last big transaction? 

I suppose all sorts of scenario links could be available as well. Is it like a coffee shop message board for Issaries initiates and more information is available to those of a higher cult rank or that make a greater donation?

It strikes me that since the god knows what his initiates tell him, and a good Issaries will accompany each transaction with a prayer, Divination should potentially yield an Issaries initiate a lot of market information.  Less of course for Lunar areas.  

But I have not seen players take advantage of this.  Guys. you are missing a bet!

 

[Joerg]

The spirit of a road (when displeased) could do things about the road, like stretching distances, making the road offer greater resistance (uphill both ways) and make it a lot bumpier and harder on the beasts and vehicles than it should be.

[Ynneadwraith]

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

The spirit of a road (when displeased) could do things about the road, like stretching distances, making the road offer greater resistance (uphill both ways) and make it a lot bumpier and harder on the beasts and vehicles than it should be.

May I also offer a disproportionate number of unobserved cowpats...

[Erol of Backford]

On 5/25/2024 at 8:07 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

But I have not seen players take advantage of this.  Guys. you are missing a bet!

How many divinitions does each rune character have, I suppose its based on rune points but wouldn't they always want to hold a reserve for potential trouble?

On 5/26/2024 at 5:54 AM, Joerg said:

a lot bumpier and harder on the beasts and vehicles than it should be

I could see this when the grey line of cult vows are not followed... kinda sorta. Maybe a mule just refuses to go or the recently greased axel suddenly starts smoking!?

On 5/26/2024 at 5:54 AM, Joerg said:

like stretching distances

Doesn't this happen in places like Pavis already?

On 5/26/2024 at 4:08 PM, Ynneadwraith said:

cowpats

Lol, I had to look this up, cow paddies is what I'm used to hearing... I supposed out west of me they might say buffalo chips!

That might actually be a trade boon?

Fire starter anyone?

1 clack each... depending on what you cook it may leave a slightly different taste than what you are used to... maybe a slightly nutty flavor?

  

[Squaredeal Sten]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How many divinitions does each rune character have, I suppose its based on rune points but wouldn't they always want to hold a reserve for potential trouble?..... 

Yes of course players keep a reserve.  But Issaries has weekly minor holy days.  And why wouldn't you Divine what cargo to take with you on a season long caravan to another region of Glorantha?  Well chosen goods will trade better, at least that is my head canon.    It's certainly worth expending a couple of Rune points to ensure success since you will probably take at least one week getting your trade goods together.