How would you defeat the crimson bat?

[Akhôrahil]

22 minutes ago, firestell said:

Of course, as this thread shows, there are still ways to kill it without 600% weapon skill.

I just wanted it done in one round at no losses. It can certainly be done without Trances, but things start to become a lot riskier at that point.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

33 minutes ago, firestell said:

Worst case you'll need a trickster to bless the weapon with Strike beforehand

If we're talking using the ridiculous Trickster spells, another option is a good Lie to Jar-eel and have her kill the Bat.

 

[PhilHibbs]

My trickster's solution was to just say "I killed the Crimson Bat! Three times!" and cast Lie. It did turn out to be the first pebble that led to his downfall avalanche.

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

My trickster's solution was to just say "I killed the Crimson Bat! Three times!" and cast Lie. It did turn out to be the first pebble that led to his downfall avalanche.

Cast Lie. Walk up to the Cultists. Tell them "The Crimson Bat has been replaced with a perfect illusion that doesn't need to be fed. If it looks hungry, it's just part of the illusion."

Edited August 15 by Akhôrahil

[Alex]

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

If it looks hungry, it's just part of the illusion.

See also, every housecat ever.  "Yawl!  I've never been fed in my entire life!!  I'm so hungry I might die at any second!!!"

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:16 AM, Akhôrahil said:

"The Crimson Bat has been replaced with a perfect illusion that doesn't need to be fed

I'm sure the cultists would just leave said bat and go looking for the real one. (also, I imagine they'd figure it out once a worship ceremony has been conducted - or, more likely, Invitation Divination** to find out where the real bat is...).

Now, if it was "The bat is now fully satiated, and no longer needs souls to survive - any extra will kill it" (or similar) - you might be onto something.

 

 

ETA: **Ah, crap! I should have proofed it...  That's what happens when you let auto-correct in ...

Edited August 17 by Shiningbrow

[Shiningbrow]

10 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If we're talking using the ridiculous Trickster spells, another option is a good Lie to Jar-eel and have her kill the Bat.

 

I don't think it would work on her.

Harrek, though, sounds like the sort of guy who would take to any Lie - magically enforced or otherwise - if it sounds like a good idea!

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm sure the cultists would just leave said bat and go looking for the real one. (also, I imagine they'd figure it out once a worship ceremony has been conducted - or, more likely, Invitation to find out where the real bat is...).

That was the idea - now the Bat is uncommanded for a while, and doesn’t get fed. If it starts chewing on people on its own, those could as easily be the Lunar army.

[Kloster]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

That was the idea - now the Bat is uncommanded for a while, and doesn’t get fed. If it starts chewing on people on its own, those could as easily be the Lunar army.

This would defeat the lunar army, but not the bat ... until there is no lunar to eat of course.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

14 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I don't think it would work on her.    (Jar-Eel)

Harrek, though, sounds like the sort of guy who would take to any Lie - magically enforced or otherwise - if it sounds like a good idea!

Is there something I don't know about Jar-Eel that makes her immune to a well phrased Lie spell?

BTW, if the Bat understands any language, that would make It a target for a well phrased Lie spell.  🙂

For the record, I think Lie is a ridiculous broken OP spell, that, to quote a friend " has never not been broken".

Edited August 16 by Rodney Dangerduck

[firestell]

The bat is immune to rune magic. I suspect the other heroes might have similar effects.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, firestell said:

The bat is immune to rune magic.

But only immune magic which targets it. Hence the need to buff weapons and hit with those.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

9 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

But only immune magic which targets it. Hence the need to buff weapons and hit with those.

And note that Lie is not cast at targets.  It is cast on the Trickster telling the Lie.  There is no POW v POW roll, Countermagic doesn't help, etc...

[Akhôrahil]

11 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

And note that Lie is not cast at targets.  It is cast on the Trickster telling the Lie.  There is no POW v POW roll, Countermagic doesn't help, etc...

This too.

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Is there something I don't know about Jar-Eel that makes her immune to a well phrased Lie spell?

I would imagine she has an excellent chance of breaking free in one round, but unlikely to be immune.

Lie to Harrek seems like it would work supremely well. He’s not exactly an intellectual.

[svensson]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:34 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

 

Coerced spell trading?

Thanatar head.

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Is there something I don't know about Jar-Eel that makes her immune to a well phrased Lie spell?

That depends - do you know she's a demi-goddess?

I would think that's she's much less likely to be affected by such mind-altering spells or effects than your typical human. Especially given her role as converter to the faith.

[Shiningbrow]

6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

He’s not exactly an intellectual.

Are we being too harsh on him?

Just because he goes berserk doesn't mean he can't be incredibly intelligent... Maybe his philosophical insights are actually amazing??

[Joerg]

On 8/16/2024 at 6:13 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I'm sure the cultists would just leave said bat and go looking for the real one. (also, I imagine they'd figure it out once a worship ceremony has been conducted - or, more likely, Invitation Divination** to find out where the real bat is...).

Now, if it was "The bat is now fully satiated, and no longer needs souls to survive - any extra will kill it" (or similar) - you might be onto something.

If you Lie, then tell the cultists that the Bat is in the critical phase, and only feeding it initiates and priests of the cult will keep it alive. Once the Bat has eaten its priesthood, it is out of control, so better do this while the Bat still is in Lunar territory.

Edited August 17 by Joerg

[narsilion]

All those mechanical combinations and min-maxing remind me of „Airship Recipee” made for infamous Polish system „Crystals of Time”. I asked chatGPT to translate it to English. I post it as a spoiler not to clutter the tread

Spoiler

To create an airship, you need quite powerful characters (around level 10): a sorcerer, a mage, an alchemist, and an illusionist, along with a Troll Strength Belt, a ship, the ability to inscribe permanent runes, a lot of mana, and some talent in construction and interior design. You'll also need 4 ballistae, 4 zweihanders, a telescope, 4 suitable thrones of power, a set of custom-made windows, and various trinkets to decorate the interior.

1. The entire team sails out to sea and searches for a large kraken, then lures it with the ship.

2. When the kraken destroys the ship (sadly, but we include it in the costs), the mage casts Levitation on everyone, and the illusionist casts Improved Invisibility and Omission, allowing the team to safely fly above the kraken.

3. Next, the illusionist casts Animate Rope, attaching the Belt of Troll Strength to the end of the rope. The animated rope then loops the belt around one of the kraken's tentacles.

4. The Belt of Troll Strength grants the wearer the strength and intelligence of a troll (about 240 and 40, respectively), which usually means a boost in muscle power at the cost of mental clarity. For the kraken (6000 strength, 15 intelligence), this means it suddenly can't lift its tentacle and becomes just smart enough to be susceptible to illusion magic.

5. The illusionist then casts control spells on the kraken, such as Charm or Dominate Monster. With its new intelligence of 40, the kraken isn’t highly resistant to this. Alternatively, a druid could use animal control spells.

6. The kraken is then transported toward the shore.

7. Illusory wings are cast on it, which is a spell whose "buoyancy" depends on strength. The mage casts Water Breathing, which allows aquatic creatures to breathe air.

8. The belt is removed, and the kraken is forced to fly over land, albeit at low altitude. Thanks to Water Breathing, the kraken isn't in danger, so the charm remains intact.

9. The spells are removed, causing the kraken to fall and suffocate.

10. The sorcerer then raises the kraken as an undead creature, which gains a significant strength bonus, at least x3. It’s likely a wight or striga, and its speed boost of at least x2 is also beneficial, as the airship's flight speed will depend on it.

11. The illusionist imbues the kraken with magical wings inscribed with runes. With 24,000 strength, the kraken can carry a considerable load through the air.

12. The mage inscribes the kraken with Levitation runes, which are needed for certain stationary operations.

13. The kraken is hollowed out, removing unnecessary parts like the digestive system. The eyes are removed, and windows are installed. An exit can be made at the back or side.

14. The kraken's interior is lined with wallpaper, carpets are laid down, and a cozy interior is arranged, complete with thrones of illusion, darkness, and magic. The interior decoration is necessary to prevent the kraken from draining the life energy of passengers by touch.

15. A sorcerer should pilot the airship using undead control.

16. Zweihanders or similar large weapons, ideally around 4-6 meters long, are mounted on four of the kraken’s tentacles. Ideally, they should be magical. With a strength of 24,000, the kraken can fight effectively in melee combat (about 6000 damage from strength + weapon damage). It would be useful if the sorcerer forced some proficiency in swords onto the kraken, increasing damage by x1.5.

17. The remaining four tentacles are fitted with rocket launchers in the form of siege ballistae, with, for example, a skeleton permanently mounted for reloading.

18. Homing rockets are prepared. The alchemist mounts an explosive elixir at the front of the ballista’s spear and a pressure-increasing spell at the back. The sorcerer then attaches an undead raven to the tip, which will automatically home in on life energy, such as that of a dragon. The rocket’s warhead could also be made from a dagger with some unpleasant magical effect.

19. From the bottom of the kraken, a glass-metal rotating dome is installed, similar to those on WWII flying fortresses. In the dome, a throne of illusion and a telescope are placed. The illusionist should prepare a few scrolls of "Piercing Illusion," as this spell consumes a lot of mana. They might need to buy these spells, as they are powerful, and the illusionist may not have the required level. Piercing Illusion has a range of sight and can almost certainly kill a single target (ten saving throws with effects like "you die, or if you fail, you die in terrible agony," or "you take 4k100 damage, or if you fail, you turn to stone," or "you go instantly insane, or if you fail, you become a vegetable"). With decent visibility, the telescope and this spell allow for the elimination of enemy mages from at least several kilometers away.

20. A landing platform is prepared for 2 griffons, 4 pegasi, or 12 harpies.

21. The alchemist prepares bombs in the form of explosive elixirs or some poisonous gases.

22. If you're paranoid, you can additionally reinforce the kraken with metal plating and inscribe it with permanent Invisibility, Invisibility to Undead, Illusionary Armor, Magical Armor, and other protective spells that come to mind.

23. If not, paint the kraken in heraldic colors and mount banners to make it look nicer.

24. A practical combat and deployment solution for a resourceful sorcerer would be to tie a small unit of decent undead, such as wights with shards, to the surface of the airship.

25. The mage could also prepare a stock of wands with Fireballs or similar spells for additional firepower in battles against creatures like griffon or pegasus riders, where rockets might be wasted. A level 10 mage could also prepare acceleration cannons, but that might be overkill.

26. TADA! The airship is ready!

 

Edited August 18 by narsilion

[Monty Wild]

'Just' use the trickster spell, Swallow.  Accumulate enough rune points to swallow the bat (180+ points is the hard part), then cast it on yourself (it's target: Self, not targeted on the object being swallowed, so no magic absorption for the bat with this one) and swallow the bat.

The trick is then getting close enough to use it, then getting away from the cult and the ticks that are suddenly unsupported.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Monty Wild said:

'Just' use the trickster spell, Swallow.  Accumulate enough rune points to swallow the bat (180+ points is the hard part), then cast it on yourself (it's target: Self, not targeted on the object being swallowed, so no magic absorption for the bat with this one) and swallow the bat.

The trick is then getting close enough to use it, then getting away from the cult and the ticks that are suddenly unsupported.

The inevitable sequel makes Alien chest-bursting look rather tame.

[metcalph]

What one could do is be swallowed by the Crimson Bat and hold fast.  It's what Ethilrist did with Hungry Jack.  However that worked by turning the victim into its opposite and negating it.  I suspect that Hungry Jack broke because it could not negate Ethilrist's narcissism.

[PhilHibbs]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:35 AM, Monty Wild said:

'Just' use the trickster spell, Swallow.

One thing to bear in mind is... nobody really knows where swallowed stuff goes. You might just be redirecting the problem to another time or place. But then again, when did tricksters ever think about consequences?

And... as you say... that's a lot of points. Really, you need to quest for a version of the spell that works with boosted MPs. Mouth Trance, maybe?

Edited August 20 by PhilHibbs