Re-imagined Supers Rules?

[Michael Hopcroft]

I'm not at all familiar with all the new circumstances of Chaosium/BRP/etc. I still have my BGB and I am not giving it up. But I am wondering, off the top of my head, what Chaaosium's design team or preferred freelancers would so if they were given the task of developing a super-powers subsystem for BRP -- starting from scratch.

Superworld does have its adherents. But it gets really clumsy at higher power levels, and at the "best (insert your specialty here) on the planet" level on which many classic characters live. The problem would get even more pronounced if they go to percentile attributes (or however you explain the rules in CoC7, which I sadly don't have yet). It could be that Runequest players aren't all that attracted to superheroes, or that the level of crunch inherent in BRP simply doesn't go along with bench-pressing jetliners and flying to the center of the galaxy in a few minutes.

But if you were an RPG designer, and you had been given the task of re-inventing the BRP supers rules, what would you do?

[Sean_RDP]

I have Superworld somewhere but its been a long time since I looked through it.  I have never played it. My Supers game of choice was always Marvel Super Heroes, though I dabbled in a few others too.

The primary issue I see with BRP as the basis for a supers game is lethality and scope. BRP games can be pretty lethal bits and in a genre were the good guys try to not kill everyone they meet, that takes a bit of careful planning. "Opps you cut off the Joker's arm, roll a POW x5 to avoid pissing your pants since Batman said to bring him in alive and unspoiled." Scope is also an issue: can you make one set of rules that works for gritty street level no powers games to galactic godlike beings blowing up galaxies? That might be difficult to pull off. 

So variable characteristic levels would be important, with a guide on using characters in the same game from different power levels. I would also layer another Health mechanic in. So Bruising and Lethal, where people cannot die from being bruised but criticals can do Lethal damage. Kind of like RoleMaster with Concussion Hits, which don't really kill you for losing them but the crits will do you in for sure. 

And then powers... I would think powers would have to have more than a linear progression. A Level 2 or cost 2 power is twice as powerful as a Level 1, and Level 3 is twice as powerful as level 2 or even three times as powerful. Yet the low tier powers should still be very useful.

Just some thoughts, not as coherent as I would like.

[Simlasa]

I've ran a bit of Superworld waybackwhen but I was really aiming for something brutal and 'street-level'... closer to Gangs of New York (the book) meets Underworld (the RPG). Sin City, Judge Dredd and the Eddie Current comics were in the Appendix N as well.

It played fine... but yes, PCs died and PCs killed people.

Superhero RPGs seem like one of the more contentious genres in general. There's a vast spectrum of power levels on show in the source materials and I'm not sure any system can really cover them all and do them well. Plus, the source material is notoriously inconsistent and driven by plot. I'm not sure any mash-up with RPGs, except for the most railroad variety, is going to 'feel' much like the comics or movies.

 

[Mankcam]

Well if you're playing any kind of Pulp game, you'ld want to make Mook rules for default opponents, and only use typical combat rules for notable encounters and villains. So this would be separate for the Superpowers rules, but if you were wanting to play the comic-book style superheroes you would have to use Pulp Mooks rules as the default and then mix that in with whatever else you come up with for the Powers system.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Mankcam

[Mankcam]

HQ would be a good fit for Pulp Era and Super Heroes I would think.

I'ld rather see that system with those genres actually, and leave fantasy for more gritty rules like RQ

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Mankcam

[Chaot]

I think powers need to be looked at in a broader way as well.  Something like the focus skills in Gods of Law or the ridiculously powerful skills some mythos creatures have.  Dr. Manhattan would have a SubAtomic Particle Control skill and a Non Linear Perception of Time skill.  Spidey would have a Spidey Sense skill, a Climb Walls Skill, a Webslinger skill, etc.  The trick is finding an elegant subsystem to keep it light and tie it together.

Writing up a BRP Supers system has long been on my wish list of things to do.

[Charles VA]

49 minutes ago, Chaot said:

Writing up a BRP Supers system has long been on my wish list of things to do.

I would be interested in seeing this. I enjoy Superworld completely but I never turn down new ideas.

[Chris]

Hi

I have tried out many different Supers games, over many years, some worked ok at some level others just didn't work at all.

I am now using BASH, which seems to work well and is easy for the players to understand their characters.

It is also easy for the GM with all the NPCs to look after and deadly blows are not standard.

 

Try it  here http://www.bashrpg.com/

 

Chris

[TrippyHippy]

Honestly, if I were to do another Chaosium-based Supers game, I'd use the HeroQuest ruleset. It scales better and the use of key words and narrative tropes actually suit the genre better..

Edited January 6, 2016 by TrippyHippy

[Baulderstone]

6 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Honestly, if I were to do another Chaosium-based Supers game, I'd use the HeroQuest ruleset. It scales better and the use of key words and narrative tropes actually suit the genre better..

You'd certainly need to use something along the lines of HeroQuest if you wanted a Supers game that captured the feel of a comic-book. Interactions between characters in comics tend to be far more driven by narrative concerns than by attempts to simulate "realistic" interactions of their powers. Revolution D100 might be a good choice as well for that genre. 

Of course, not all Super games are actually going for the comic feel. Sometime you want to run a game exploring what a world would really be like with these kind of powers in it. Godlike is a game where your character might be able to toss tanks around, but still be taken down by a single bullet to the head. More traditional D100 sets might be ale to do this if an appropriate way to handle scaling is included. 

[Sean_RDP]

Well I think you could make a variant of the FASERIP / Marvel Supers using d100. In many ways the two systems are already not dissimilar. The Karma mechanic can be used for EXP. Talents and Powers can easily be made into %. Even using the OQ ally system for contacts. That is not to say I disagree about HQ being a good supers system. Indeed I always thought HQ would make a great Star Wars system as well (not to derail the convo). 

[Simlasa]

3 hours ago, Baulderstone said:

Of course, not all Super games are actually going for the comic feel. Sometime you want to run a game exploring what a world would really be like with these kind of powers in it.

That's always been much more my taste in supers stuff, much more interesting to me than the 'speed of plot' variety. There are plenty of comics that go that path as well, or look at the plausible repercussions of having someone like Marvelman/Miracleman around. That's also why I thought City of Heroes was a good fit for BRP, since that game's powers were much more limited than the average supers comic.

[Baulderstone]

2 minutes ago, Simlasa said:

That's always been much more my taste in supers stuff, much more interesting to me than the 'speed of plot' variety. There are plenty of comics that go that path as well, or look at the plausible repercussions of having someone like Marvelman/Miracleman around. That's also why I thought City of Heroes was a good fit for BRP, since that game's powers were much more limited than the average supers comic.

That's where my tastes tend to lie. I'm certainly up for playing something with a more DC/Marvel feel, but when I run something, I like to explore what effect these powers have on a setting. Alan Moore's works were what drew me into comics, so I am a bit biased. 

[Atgxtg]

If I were the designer....

1) I'd chance combat to non-lethal subdual except for special called shots or weapons. That way the Hulk doesn't out and out kill Captain America when he does get lucky and connect. 

2) I'd bring back the old Superworld (boxed set) SIZ table or the RQ3 table so as to better gauge and scale the STR of superstrong characters and the SIZ of large objects. 

3) I'd try to get rid  of the power "levels" and instead try to make every power scalable so that the character gets a certain amount of effect per creation/power point spent. 

4) I'd give all amor some sort of crossover against other types of attack. For example, 50 point Kinetic armor plate will probably soak some energy damage. Not the full 50 points, but something.

5) I'd try to work in different genres/themes used for superheros and try to allow GMS to scale the setting to suit the "Reality" they are playing in. For instance, if playing a "four color" campaign, superstrong characters can fall off of skyscrapers a surive with only a small crater to show for it.  

 

[sladethesniper]

I am about to start up a BRP supers game, street level, noir.  The PCs will start off as regular BRP characters and then undergo an event that grants them powers.  Over the entire story arc, they will have to learn about the world they are now a part of (similar in tone to how the Old World of Darkness used to be), uncover conspiracies, gain allies and grow in power.

 

Some of optional rules we will be using are:

Low rolls win in contested rolls

Skills over 100%

Superpowers, Psionics, Mutations, Magic and Sorcery will all be used.  Extra superpowers will be allowed from City of Heroes (in the downloads section of this very website!), Marvel Superheroes, Mutants and Masterminds, Aberrant, and Heroes Unlimited.

 

Some of the house rules are:

A linear damage scale ported in from Palladium

Dual damage tracks…regular Hit Points and Bludgeoning damage, each of which are equal to CON, but unless characters have Martial Arts, all non-weapon, non-penetrating damage (punch, kick, club, impact, etc) is first taken off Bludgeoning damage, then Hit Points.

A new power called Toughness, that acts a multiple for Hit Points and Bludgeoning damage, so that Toughness 3 is actually Hit Points and Bludgeoning x 4…this is to replicate the fact that Superheroes are very, very tough.

The power of Armor, now protects against all forms of damage, so that they can buy up points of armor fairly cheaply, but with a linear damage scale, it really won’t make the combat all that much longer.

I also plan on a new skill called “Pulled Punches” which allows a character to use reduced damage in combat, which means that they can choose to half damage, quarter damage, a single point or no damage at all.

I plan on keeping regular humans book standard to represent the fact that they are squishy and die quite readily when superpowers start going off…after all, if a punch from a superhero can destroy a tank, then they are technically anti-tank weapons, and in real life when anti-tank weapons go off, civilians die…

 

-STS

[UnlikelyLass]

Aside from the classic Superworld rules, Modiphius does also have the Achtung! Cthulhu supplement Elder Godlike.  In addition to mashing up the Cthulhu Mythos and gritty Superhuman WWII settings, it also effectively adapts the Godlike power-building system to BRP.

So, that's also an option.

[sladethesniper]

Elder Godlike? Never heard of it, but I do have Achtung! Cthulhu...I might have to check it out.

 

-STS