Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 2 - Doraddi

[David Scott]

Doraddi section comments here!

Main thread: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6467-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-2/

Week 2 errors: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6432-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-2-errors/

Here's one of the sketches for the Doraddi illustration by Jeff Laubenstein.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by David Scott

[jrutila]

This whole chapter was new stuff for me. All in all Pamaltelan cultures are little less known and thus interesting to read about. I don't know how common it is in our world to have cultures where women are in political power by default. In that sense it is refreshing to read these Gloranthan cultures that differ from my learned norms.

The map has "Maslo Culture" mentioned but this chapter does not speak about it a single word. I can find the word later in the book so maybe it will be cleared up later.

The picture is enlighting. The clothing clearly marks ones position in the society. The amount of runes in these pictures really highlights the foundation of runes in Glorantha. The problem is that everytime I see a fantasy-themed picture in the Internet I cannot straight away apply it to Glorantha. I always find myself thinking how many runes the picture is missing.

I am having mixed messages with Doraddi religion. They worship Pamalt pantheon but their religion is shamanic. There was in some older HeroQuest book about this mixed, weird magic where animist way of magic was used to interact with gods. I don't remember the term but is this now something like that?

"We Tried That Already" is a funny way to open up the culture. If there would only be definitive access to the scriptures of "Nochet Knowledge Temple"

[Akhôrahil]

I thought this section was... bland. It does give a good overview about things you would have to know in order to play in Doraddi society, but unlike the Orlanthi and Praxian sections, after reading it I ask myself "so what would you do as Doraddi character?" without having an answer. The combination of extreme conservatism and a fairly harmonious and peaceful society doesn't make for a lot of adventuring bait. Later on, we get both area descriptions and hints at the Hero Wars (I'm sure the New Artmali Empire is going to be well received...), but for now, the section isn't very grabby.

And while it's probably just a matter of limited source material, the Doraddi culture seems extremely monolithic for something that spans an entire continent. 

[Oracle]

This chapter contains completely new information about the Doraddi Culture – at least as far as I know with respect to official Glorantha publications. Could well be, that this is an enhanced version from the already mentioned Pamaltela book, planned to be part of the RuneQuest III Glorantha box, but dropped and never released making this box the Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars box.

The whole section tells me, that I do not know anything about Pamaltela. New Culture, new gods. Again a fantastic illustration of some Doraddi people … much to learn here.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Oracle

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, jrutila said:

am having mixed messages with Doraddi religion. They worship Pamalt pantheon but their religion is shamanic. There was in some older HeroQuest book about this mixed, weird magic where animist way of magic was used to interact with gods. I don't remember the term but is this now something like that?

This mixed religion is quite common in Glorantha (and our world). There's likely only the hsunchen as true animists in Glorantha. The mixed scale is sliding: Praxians - mostly animistic with some theism roughy 75/25. Orlanthi - mostly theistic with some animism ( ancestor worship and kolati), maybe 85/15 to 95/5. I'm usure where the doraddi sit. There's no weird stuff needed you can access some gods as gods or great spirits, and vice versa, but some gods can only be accessed by theism, and some spirits only by animism. 

[Joerg]

What to do as a Doraddi character? Pretty much the same stuff as the Orlanthi basic clan stuff, really - internal and external conflicts, raids, chaos threats, big hunts, and fighting or abetting abominations of bad civilzations like Exigers, Kresh, Artmali, Embyli, Mountain Trolls, or Mostali.

The Doraddi meeting contest is probably more fun to play than the Orlanthi greeting.

 

 My thoughts on reading the Doraddi section: rather few.

Reed huts, reed skirts, no grass – an old complaint of mine. These reeds apparently are limited to wet sites, and don’t enter the plains, but this will make them an unobtainable resource for hunting camps following a herd.

It is a bit unfortunate that the sidebar text for the Kresh matriarch on p.25 repeats the Kresh description text on p.22 verbatim.

 

 

[metcalph]

16 hours ago, jrutila said:

I am having mixed messages with Doraddi religion. They worship Pamalt pantheon but their religion is shamanic. There was in some older HeroQuest book about this mixed, weird magic where animist way of magic was used to interact with gods. I don't remember the term but is this now something like that?

The phraseology was misapplied magic and it no longer exists.  Pamalt is a God but his worshippers prefer to do much of his magic in the form of spirits (like Storm Bull and Waha).  

The most noteworthy passage in this section was reference to a High Shamanic Ideal involving the _integration_ of spirits.  While it would be something that a God Learner would say, I feel the jargon doesn't really tell us anything (and the usage of integration is downright misleading to survivors of the Hero Wars period and would be better understood as acquiring a relationship with a spirit).  I would instead say that a Doraddi feels obliged to care for his spirits in the same way that Pamalt (or whoever his patron God is) cares for him.  

[David Scott]

My first contact with Pamaltela was in 1994 Tales of the Reaching Moon #11 the Pamaltela Special (I was guest editor!).

It's still a goldmine of info if you can find it. Looking at the Doraddi section in the Guide reminded me that Pamaltela is huge and that no intro to the Doraddi is going to justice to the depth of variation that must be present on the southern continent. Just looking at the distribution map made me realise that the Doraddi cover more area that the whole northern continent. It was however good to see the info back in print and not just restricted to a 23 year old publication!

[David Scott]

Here is a link to the Doraddi Pantheon you may not have seen at Glorantha.com:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/doraddi-pantheon/

 

 

[Steve]

Good stuff here on the Doraddi. I hit a problem early on in terms of my own ignorance. In the Housing section on p.23, first paragraph, it days how the poles "double as drags" while on the move? What are "drags" in this context, please? I tried googling but there are too many meanings of the word for me to figure out what is meant here.

As has been said, again this can only be a high-level overview given the massive area covered by the Doraddi, and surely their culture will have huge variances over such a large area.

The mismatches between the art and art description here (see my previous comments in the Hsunchen section) are that the bow and arrows mentioned in the description of the Walker are missing from the illustration as far as I can tell. Lovely to see a culture that it totally alien to me (in Gloranthan terms) drawn out like this though.

I, too, loved the "We tried that already" thing.

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Steve

[Oracle]

4 hours ago, Steve said:

Good stuff here on the Doraddi. I hit a problem early on in terms of my own ignorance. In the Housing section on p.23, first paragraph, it days how the poles "double as drags" while on the move? What are "drags" in this context, please? I tried googling but there are too many meanings of the word for me to figure out what is meant here.

...

I've immediately imagined kind of a stretcher containing their belongings, which is dragged (sic!) by a beast of burden (or some slaves?)

But again: I may be totally wrong here ...

Edited July 4, 2017 by Oracle

[Akhôrahil]

You take two poles, connect them in some way to form a frame, put a load on them, and drag them behind you by holding the upper ends while the lower ends drag on the ground.

It's not exactly efficient, but it beats carrying the load, especially as you have to bring the poles with you anyway.

That's my reading, at least.

(When used with dogs or horses, this kind of dragging solution is called a travois. For a human-use variant, see: http://www.backcountrychronicles.com/travois-game-drag/ )

Edited July 4, 2017 by Akhôrahil

[davecake]

The Guide in general talks about pantheons and deities without specifying the nature of the interaction - some might be regarded as great spirits rather Gods in previous editions, and Storm Bull is clearly both to different people. In previous RQ material the line was a bit fuzzy between divine and shamanic magic anyway (quite a bit of animist magic was in the form of rune spells obtained from spirit cults). 

I think most of the big names in the Pamalt pantheon are animist, but well developed animists with lots of advanced powers and different ways of approaching them that might not always look like animism to the rules. 

[davecake]

I love the Doraddi, one of my favourite bits of Glorantha. So different to most fantasy (and not just because it's more African then European). 

The question of what to do in a game is not difficult to me. There are monsters to fight, many of them chaotic, and social status to gain as a result. The big difference is that they are much more reluctant to settle problems with other Doraddi with violence. Contests and debates instead can still make for interesting games. Plus the plains are littered with weird old ruins of various types etc. 

[davecake]

I agree with Peter that the paragraph that discusses the High Shamanic Ideal is a bit confusing, especially the mention of integration etc. 

[davecake]

One thing not mentioned here but that shows up in Pamaltelan myth is that there are a lot of hsunchen wandering around on the plains. Personally I think there is quite a bit of cultural interaction, and Doraddi shamans may interact with many of the same spirits as the Hsunchen ones, especially spirits of general flora and fauna. 

[Dogboy]

On 04/07/2017 at 11:51 AM, David Scott said:

My first contact with Pamaltela was in 1994 Tales of the Reaching Moon #11 the Pamaltela Special (I was guest editor!).

The Doraddi of the Guide are very much different to that interpretation. I liked the attempt to try and make it not "Fantasy Africa".

Edited July 20, 2017 by Dogboy

[davecake]

I think there is a lot of stuff in Tales 11 that doesn't fit as part of the Doraddi as described in the Guide at all. Some of it is inspired somewhat by Australian Aboriginal culture, which I don't think is a good fit for the Doraddi. Some of the differences can be integrated by assuming it is a regional variant of Doraddi culture from Tarien. 

I actually think Australian Aboriginal derived ideas work better as inspiration for Fiwan myth. 

[Jeff]

23 hours ago, davecake said:

I think there is a lot of stuff in Tales 11 that doesn't fit as part of the Doraddi as described in the Guide at all. Some of it is inspired somewhat by Australian Aboriginal culture, which I don't think is a good fit for the Doraddi. Some of the differences can be integrated by assuming it is a regional variant of Doraddi culture from Tarien. 

I actually think Australian Aboriginal derived ideas work better as inspiration for Fiwan myth. 

Sandy strongly disagreed with the take in Tales 11 and I relied upon his take to develop the Doraddi section of the Guide (and other sections of Pamaltela). 

[Dogboy]

13 hours ago, Jeff said:

Sandy strongly disagreed with the take in Tales 11 and I relied upon his take to develop the Doraddi section of the Guide (and other sections of Pamaltela). 

I get that, and I'm not knocking the official version, just saying that I liked the attempt to take it somewhere less trod. It was a nice experiment.