Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 13 - Lunar Empire

[David Scott]

Index - https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6558-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-index/

• Please keep your discussions to the current section - it's easy to wander off.
• Please keep your discussions on the current section in this thread.
• Use the Deep discussion thread for related but off topic speculations and investigations.
• Please only add to this if you've read the section. I'm trying to avoid derailments by non-participants.
• If you are having difficulty finding the threads - they are all tagged: guide to glorantha group read, click the tag and the treads will all appear:
• https://basicroleplaying.org/tags/guide to glorantha group read/

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• Please don't forget to start reading the next section, the Lunar Provinces for week 14. From page 328 up to and including page 349. You've got until Monday 25th September.
• Any errors in the next section, please put in the week 14 errors: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6782-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-14-errors/

This week we started our exploration of the Lunar Empire. The threads this week are divided into The Lunar Heartland, First Blessed, Darjiin, Doblian, Karasal, Kostaddi, Oraya, Oronin, Silver Shadow, Sylila and Carmania: 

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6792-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-the-lunar-heartland/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6793-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-first-blessed/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6794-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-darjiin/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6795-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-doblian/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6796-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-karasal/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6797-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-kostaddi/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6798-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-oraya/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6799-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-oronin/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6800-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-silver-shadow/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6801-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-sylila/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6802-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-carmania/

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https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6784-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-deep-discussion/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6745-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-13-errors/

 

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by David Scott

[metcalph]

p292 - I know I've speculated on the likely places before but I'm kinda disappointed that we are not given more information on the Broos Regiment Headquarters, the Madness College, Vampire Town, the Dislocated Zoo Grounds, Third Hand Illumination Town, Undragon Land and the Beyond Nightmares.

[jajagappa]

From the time I discovered RQ2 and Glorantha, I've liked the Lunar Empire.  And there's lots here to review and explore.

Much like @metcalph's comment above, I've always wondered how many Mad Sultanates actually exist.  There's certainly the one in Dorastor.  Ostensibly there is still one in Tork.  But are there others?  The plural usage always seems to suggest so.

There's finally more mention of the Arcos River, and its great valley.  Definitely one of the most forgotten places of Genertela.  At least it's no longer a Blank Land.  "the Arcos remained free and wild" - given it's somewhat 'sibling' status to the Oslir, one wonders if there's a draconic being associated with it?  Something lurking in the depths of the Elf Sea perhaps.

p.293 - Nice single map view of all Peloria including the oft-forgotten, or oft-ignored, regions such as Brolia, Anadiki, and Talastar on one hand and the Arcos Valley on the other.  If you look closely, you'll also discover that the 2nd Daughter's Road points directly to Top of the World Mountain.  And I bet you can guess what the 1st Daughter's Road points to!  ;-)

Climate - I used to think that there was something of a temperature inversion in DH with Yelm's grace keeping it generally warm year-round.  But, no.  Yuthuppa is more on par with Minneapolis and environs.  Elz Ast with Duluth, Minnesota.  No wonder I feel an affinity with DH lands.

Population - interesting to see how densely populated Darjiin, First Blessed, and Sylila are.

[jajagappa]

Nothing like a few good maps. 

p.297 - We're so used to thinking about the Lunar glowline and the centers for those temples.  But adding in the Orlanthi Great Sacred Mountains with that gives a very different perspective.  It suddenly looks like the Red Goddess is having to push through the strongholds of Orlanth - and really follows the great river valley.  It was interesting to me to discover that Giant Top Mountain in Imther was one of the Sacred Mountains.  Gave a new perspective on Imther's position in the barbarian belt; and led to a rethinking of the clans in the mountains and eastern wilds - those really are folk who believe that 'no one can make you do anything', so refugee clans and families have gone there and kept up their Orlanthi ways despite Lunar proximity as they are beyond the Glowline.

I also liked the Mostali 'nullity' zones as I like to think of them (something about the dark grey color used). 

p.302 - Rice growing areas.  What's interesting is just how northerly the rice-growing is.  We think of terrestrial rice is associated with areas of a lot of rain and warmth.  Yet much of the Lunar empire is far more like parts of the Great Plains of the US centered on the Mississippi River.  Suggests that the rice of DH may be more like the wild rice found in the lakes regions of northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. 

p.305 - I don't remember noticing Lakistalia on the Blue Moon Plateau before.  Also get a better sense of the upper Arcos Valley - an area often overlooked.  Not many cities in the latter area:  Darjeeb, Poralals, Serene Victory.  Suggests that this is a region of nomadic herders, descendants of the ancient Zarkosites with their goats, along with other horse herders.  Almost surprising that the trolls of the Elder Wilds haven't swarmed against them yet.

p.310 - the great swamplands/rice fields are quite visible (and of course the Crater).  And Darjjiin is just densely populated. 

[jajagappa]

Can't leave out the art!

p.301 - Finally a picture with Beat-pot Aelwrin (leaving aside the old Jar-eel Assassin t-shirt).  We've seen more now with Prince of Sartar, but gives a view of a much harder, older figure than reading the description of him back in the old WBRM/Dragon Pass game (or even the included text).  This Jar-eel looks more like a successful commander than a radiant goddess.  I'm sure that how she most commonly appears.

p.306 - It's a huge statue of the Red Goddess.  And the Sky Bear looks rather sad.  But still have a sense of an enormous temple here.  What was interesting for the wizard was the tools at his belt: mirror, shears, etc.  Suggests that sorcerous rituals need a lot of accoutrements.  I like the faceplate for the Yanafali warrior - nicely suggestive of the moon's demonic powers.  The Lunar priestess dances on, seemingly oblivious to actions around her.  

p.315 - Great to see the contrasting style of art here, and a very evocative piece.  Hon-eel looks blissfully happy as she takes her harvest.  Nice blend of solar and lunar styles for the Red Emperor here.  The Horse Queen still looks rather proud, even if defeated - they'll be back.  The Storm Barbarian, on the other hand, is far more submissive.

 

[Steve]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Nothing like a few good maps. 

p.297 - We're so used to thinking about the Lunar glowline and the centers for those temples.  But adding in the Orlanthi Great Sacred Mountains with that gives a very different perspective.  It suddenly looks like the Red Goddess is having to push through the strongholds of Orlanth - and really follows the great river valley.  It was interesting to me to discover that Giant Top Mountain in Imther was one of the Sacred Mountains.  Gave a new perspective on Imther's position in the barbarian belt; and led to a rethinking of the clans in the mountains and eastern wilds - those really are folk who believe that 'no one can make you do anything', so refugee clans and families have gone there and kept up their Orlanthi ways despite Lunar proximity as they are beyond the Glowline.

I also liked the Mostali 'nullity' zones as I like to think of them (something about the dark grey color used). 

What do those Mostali grey zones designate, exactly? And similarly, what do the white Orlanthi zones mean (i.e. what effects are significant inside those areas?).

I don't really understand the key on this map. Where do those distances come from? I can understand that they're relating to the different sizes of circles on the map, though it took me a few moments to match which one was which.

As for the rice-growing areas map on p.302, I found it interesting that there was an area extending under the Ban. I presume this means it *was* a rice growing area at the time that the Ban took place, but who knows what's happening there now?

 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

p.302 - Rice growing areas.  What's interesting is just how northerly the rice-growing is.  We think of terrestrial rice is associated with areas of a lot of rain and warmth.  Yet much of the Lunar empire is far more like parts of the Great Plains of the US centered on the Mississippi River.  Suggests that the rice of DH may be more like the wild rice found in the lakes regions of northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. 

p.310 - the great swamplands/rice fields are quite visible (and of course the Crater).  And Darjjiin is just densely populated. 

For some reason the northern and lower Oslir valley doesn't show any wetlands, even though the region is well within the rice paddy lands. Does this mean that all the wetlands up north have been cultivated, and no weed wildlands remain?

 

12 minutes ago, Steve said:

As for the rice-growing areas map on p.302, I found it interesting that there was an area extending under the Ban. I presume this means it *was* a rice growing area at the time that the Ban took place, but who knows what's happening there now?

At a guess, the local farmers continue growing rice under their overlords.

I am rather intrigued by the "temporary expansion" in the Oronin Valley. Does this mean that normal grain land was converted into rice paddies?

So-called dry farming can be done with irrigation, and if those fields are on terraces or flat, they could be converted into rice paddies. I have seen dry farming irrigation fields on slopes which are impossible to convert unless massive terracing would be introduced.

[soltakss]

2 minutes ago, Joerg said:

For some reason the northern and lower Oslir valley doesn't show any wetlands, even though the region is well within the rice paddy lands. Does this mean that all the wetlands up north have been cultivated, and no weed wildlands remain?

I would guess yes, as the Yelm-Oslirbond has been around for a very long time and it is conducive to cultivation. I know that paddy fields need a different kind of irrigation than other crops, but with cultists of Lodril's Sons and Yelm-Oslir, paddy fields just naturally follow.

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, Steve said:

What do those Mostali grey zones designate, exactly? And similarly, what do the white Orlanthi zones mean (i.e. what effects are significant inside those areas?).

Big mountains can be visited by the Orlanthi every high holy day without a temple.

Middle sized mountains can be visited every seasonal holy day without a temple.

Small mountains can be visited every week without a temple,

Within the Grey Zones, worship to Orlanth must be conducted within a temple.

[davecake]

I share Peters disappointment that none of these interesting chaotic places have a location. Spol seems associated with vampires, so is a possibility for the vampire town. 

[Steve]

On 24/09/2017 at 8:03 PM, metcalph said:

Big mountains can be visited by the Orlanthi every high holy day without a temple ...

What's the source for this, please? I'd just like to read up on this further.

[metcalph]

Quote

All Orlanthi are
familiar with the location [of Kero Fin - PHM] for on Orlanth’s high holy
day their souls fly there to attend the god.

Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes p115

 

Quote

The Storm God Orlanth is manifest
atop his Great Sacred Mountains, and
he is most easily and directly spoken
with there. Worshipers within a radius
of nearly 650 miles from either Kero
Fin or Top of the World, for example,
may magically commune with the god
atop those mountains each High Holy
Day worship ceremony. Those within
a radius of approximately 165 miles of
a Great Sacred Mountain can converse
with the god on every seasonal holy
day. Those within a radius of nearly 100
miles of a Sacred Mountain can contact
the god each Windsday. Otherwise,
temples must be built and consecrated
beyond these regions

Guide to Glorantha p296

 

 

[davecake]

I was surprised at how firmly Dendara is now a Lodrili, commoners, deity. Formerly she seemed to be the major feminine deity of the Yelmite Dara Happans. 

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, davecake said:

I was surprised at how firmly Dendara is now a Lodrili, commoners, deity. Formerly she seemed to be the major feminine deity of the Yelmite Dara Happans. 

Dendara is one of the Jernotian High Deities (sidebar p.317), all of which are relegated to commoners deities by the celestial pantheon of Yelm.

Otherwise I agree - Oria is the earth goddess worshiped by the Lodrili, while Dendara the Good Wife (and little more) is more appropriate for the cloistered females of the Yelmic nobility.

 

[metcalph]

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

Dendara is one of the Jernotian High Deities (sidebar p.317), all of which are relegated to commoners deities by the celestial pantheon of Yelm.

The actual quote is:

Quote

Now the whole
pantheon is worshiped
only by the common
folk who live around the
mountain, though all of
its members are worshiped
individually elsewhere.

Guide p317

David was referring to the Guide p299.