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Tupper

History 1621-1625

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I read through Runequest Glorantha, and while I found it very cool, there were a lot of comments that left me fairly confused.  What was a God Learner?  Who (or what) was Belintar?  To rectify my confusion, I bought the Guide to Glorantha, and have been reading through it from start to finish. Things are starting to come into focus, but I often find myself searching through the pdf to figure where places are who people are who are referred to earlier in the book before they're "defined" later.  It's been a very fun read ... up until yesterday.

Yesterday, I hit the Dragon Pass section, and read that Dragon Pass was governed by Fazzur Wideread.  "That doesn't sound right", says I, and looked in RQG.  Then I realised that RQG is set in 1625, whereas the Guide to Glorantha is based on a present date of 1621.

This seems a bit of a snafu, since it would be pretty natural for someone to want to use Guide to Glorantha as a reference for a campaign using RQG.  My question then is: what happened between 1621 and 1625? 

Where would one find this information?  I see two potential sources: the Glorantha Sourcebook or The King of Sartar. Which one am I supposed to read to understand what's happened "post Guide"?  Or do neither of these help with this campaign date mismatch?

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Since you already have access to it, I'd start with Appendix J: The Hero Wars in the Guide to Glorantha.

Both the Sourcebook and King of Sartar add some information, though I haven't done a close reading on what each of them add to what's in that appendix. King of Sartar provides multiple mutually contradictory in-world histories and commentaries, pointing out some areas where the Guide version just gives one version (the Guide generally uses the version that's most positive towards Argrath, and without some of the material that supports the "multiple Argraths" analysis). It also gives documents describing events past 1625.

The Glorantha Sourcebook has a history of Dragon Pass that goes up to 1625, but it's not as detailed as King of Sartar. There's other good material in the Guide, but if you're just looking for Dragon Pass material King of Sartar is probably a better source. But be prepared for unreliable narrators!

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2 hours ago, Tupper said:

My question then is: what happened between 1621 and 1625? 

The main events are described in RQG in the Background section for character generation.

1621-2: The Great Winter, concluding with the Battle of Auroch Hills and Samastina's coup in Nochet.

1623: Siege of Nochet

1624: The Boat Planet rises; siege of Nochet ends when Argrath, Harrek and the Wolf Pirates arrive leading up to the Battle of Pennel.

1625: Pavis Liberated; the Dragonrise destroys most of the Lunar forces and the New Lunar Temple in Sartar; Kallyr declares herself Prince of Sartar.

 

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Thanks for the comments.  Looks like Appendix J could be the business.  I definitely noted the events in the character generation timeline, and trying to understand what they all meant was part of my motivation in reading the Guide to Glorantha.  I'm guessing the other region (besides Dragon Pass) where things could get a bit funky is Fronela, where the Syndic's Ban is slowly lifting (and more could have lifted by 1625).  I figure I'll cross that bridge when I get to that chapter of the Guide.

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8 minutes ago, Tupper said:

Syndic's Ban is slowly lifting (and more could have lifted by 1625)

Most of the Syndic's Ban ends in 1624, I believe, with the rise of the Boat Planet, and it is completely lifted by 1628.

Per GtG p.228: "The Syndic’s Ban continues to lift from the remaining lands subject to it. In 1624, the lands west of Samita Lake are freed, revealing several Orlanthi tribes. In 1625, Xemstown is lifted from the Ban, revealing powerful troll gangs, including the Night Guard and the Shadows of Death. In 1628, Charg is lifted from the Ban, revealing tribes of storm worshipers who worship war gods, such as Storm Bull, Humakt, and Orlanth."

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Awesome.  Thanks for that!  I'm working through Fronela now, and the bit that has me worried is the Kingdom of War.  It seems to be pretty active, and could have expanded since 1621.  Does anyone know where I'd read about what happened there?

Edited by Tupper
Correct typo.

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2 hours ago, Tupper said:

I'm working through Fronela now, and the bit that has me worried is the Kingdom of War.  It seems to be pretty active, and could have expanded since 1621.  Does anyone know where I'd read about what happened there?

GtG p.202 is pretty much it:  "The Kingdom of War rages onward, destroying and pillaging to collect the world’s largest treasure hoard. Mercenaries, heavy cavalry from Jonatela, and warriors from Tastolar and Rathorela volunteer to aid the Kingdom of War. Hordes of broos and other krjalki also erupt from evil places like Dilis to assist the Warlords.  The Kingdom of Jonatela is the third major power in Fronela, and its king may hold the key to successful conquest. Will they help or hinder the Kingdom of War?"

On the copy of the Hero Wars map I got from Greg years ago for the period 1621-1630, there's a circle marking the Kingdom of War and an arrow advancing towards Loskalm.  Pretty much the whole area of Junora, Akem, Pomons, and Jorri are labelled as "The War against War."

On the plus side, if you're running a campaign there, you can pretty much choose how you want things to unfold in this period of time.

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6 hours ago, Tupper said:

Awesome.  Thanks for that!  I'm working through Fronela now, and the bit that has me worried is the Kingdom of War.  It seems to be pretty active, and could have expanded since 1621.  Does anyone know where I'd read about what happened there?

The Kingdom of War is not mentioned in either the TakenEgi Stelae or the Black Dragon Mountain Pictographs.  This suggests the Kingdom of War is defeated by 1640.  

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I'd agree it is a snafu though, it puts most of the already published material in the past and creates a £120.00 guide product which is now inaccurate for the main game it was designed to play with. 

I think it makes perfect sense and a lot of upsides for those people playing in the chaosium house campaign who may have played through the events of 1621 - 1625 at least once already, but from other perspectives it may be a more hit and miss decision.

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14 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

I'd agree it is a snafu though, it puts most of the already published material in the past and creates a £120.00 guide product which is now inaccurate for the main game it was designed to play with. 

The Guide is not inaccurate and was not designed to be played with RuneQuest.  The date of the setting of RuneQuest: Glorantha was set some years after the Guide was published.

 

 

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The Guide is not inaccurate and was not designed to be played with RuneQuest. 

It is now inaccurate or at least very badly formatted ( look up the land and then look up the hero wars chapter to see whats changed ) if you wish to use it to support your playing of Runequest.

One would hope that the Guide to Glorantha would be compatible with main game played in Glorantha.

Dating RQG in 1625 when the guide is set in 1621 makes  the guide significantly less useful, only a couple of years after it was published.

For the world defining £120.00 supplement you would not expect its publishing company to start the process of making in obsolete within a couple of years, by changing the year of the setting into the future. It is mitigated by the hero wars section and fact its only 4 years, but its still a pretty bizarre thing to do.

Quote

The date of the setting of RuneQuest: Glorantha was set some years after the Guide was published.


I'm not criticising the guide, i'm criticising the decision to set RQG in 1625.

Much was made about waning to use RQ2 rules a base for RQG so it was more compatible with the RQ2 reprints just done, but no thought was put into how the dating at 1625 affects the viability and compatibility of the guide and those same supplements recently released by Chaosium. 

For someone not steeped in Glornatha lore and able to sift between the two different settings its, bloody confusing and none nonsensical.

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