Linked Spell Shenanigans

[Yelm's Light]

...and the arms race begins...

[Richard S.]

5 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

...and the arms race begins...

*Makes a Manifest Arms 10 matrix*

[womble]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:59 AM, womble said:

As a Linked spell Shenanigan, consider a matrix of a variable Temporal Spirit Magic of high strength, which someone went out of their way to learn specifically, then forgot the big version once it was made. Then add a linked Extension-5. Every day there's a successful Worship, someone can have that spell cast on them/cast it on themselves for a year...

Oops. Missed a thing: Extension only works on Rune spells. 

[Austin]

4 hours ago, womble said:

Oops. Missed a thing: Extension only works on Rune spells. 

Though, that matrix does kind of get around the Extension hotfix; if you make an Extension 5, Shield 3 matrix (8 POW, so a lot, but maybe not completely ridiculous) you could get a year-long Shield 3 without having your personal RP empty until the spell ended. I believe you wouldn't be able to refill the matrix until the spell was dismissed/dispelled or naturally ended, but in the long run that seems a pretty small cost if you can work up the POW among 4-5 members of an adventuring party, or sacrifice for it over a few seasons, since it lets you have a great defense and the flexibility of RP.

[PhilHibbs]

I think it would be quite interesting to let the party start out with a matrix that they all contributed 1POW to. Who would get it, who gets to decide when to use it? The priest who made it would be owed a big favour, s/he had to put 1 POW in it, and provide the spell.

I'mthinking the spell would have to come from a single priest so Fly and Remove Head would be difficult to do!

[Zozotroll]

I have started groups with a piece of truestone.    You get a more interesting party dynamic if you give them something most everybody can use.

[HreshtIronBorne]

Our GM has gifted us a 'Traveller's Staff' at the beginning of some campaigns which includes various Chalana Arroy healing magical enchanted upon it. A resurrection and a heal body or two goes a long way to making sure a group of PCs doesn't have to re-roll or sit out all the time.

[Austin]

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'mthinking the spell would have to come from a single priest so Fly and Remove Head would be difficult to do!

What about a priest of Eurmal who's also an initiate of Orlanth? (Following the mythic thread of the Trickster swearing to Orlanth, and so that the clan chieftain can halfway control him & is responsible.) Choose Flight as one of his Orlanth spells, gets the Enchantments from being a priest of Eurmal as well as Remove Head.

[PhilHibbs]

3 hours ago, Crel said:

What about a priest of Eurmal who's also an initiate of Orlanth? (Following the mythic thread of the Trickster swearing to Orlanth, and so that the clan chieftain can halfway control him & is responsible.) Choose Flight as one of his Orlanth spells, gets the Enchantments from being a priest of Eurmal as well as Remove Head.

I don't think that's a valid solution. A trickster would not be initiated into Orlanth. An Orlanth initiate could become a trickster, but they would be kicked out of Orlanth. I guess he could do it that way, putting his last use of the spell into a matrix as a way of keeping access to it.

[womble]

On 8/25/2018 at 4:50 PM, Crel said:

Though, that matrix does kind of get around the Extension hotfix; if you make an Extension 5, Shield 3 matrix (8 POW, so a lot, but maybe not completely ridiculous) you could get a year-long Shield 3 without having your personal RP empty until the spell ended. I believe you wouldn't be able to refill the matrix until the spell was dismissed/dispelled or naturally ended, but in the long run that seems a pretty small cost if you can work up the POW among 4-5 members of an adventuring party, or sacrifice for it over a few seasons, since it lets you have a great defense and the flexibility of RP.

Extension hotfix? I am unaware, please enlighten?!

Maybe it's the hotfix, but the inability to refill matrix until its contained spell ends is also not how I read RAW.

Extension, and, by extension Extension matrices are the biggest POWergaming hole I've seen in the magic system (outside of Sorcery  ) so far.

[Austin]

17 minutes ago, womble said:

Extension hotfix? I am unaware, please enlighten?!

I know it was being discussed around on the boards, and I'm pretty sure it was included in "Rune Fixes" (in the Dropbox of preview documents). A hotfix was suggested and implemented that when Extension is stacked with a spell, all RP associated with the spell cannot come back until the full duration is up, or it is dispelled, etc. Sort of a "the energy is still in effect" was how I understood it lore-wise. So, if you cast an Extension 5, Shield 3 with all 8 of your RP, you wouldn't get those points back until the spell ended (and so would have Shield for a year, but also wouldn't have RP...).

Making a Linked matrix of Extension and a spell sort of gets around this, because you're not using your own RP. Of course, you still need to amass all the POW to make the matrix in the first place, but with the new rule letting others contribute POW that's less difficult (though still not easy in an actual game environment).

22 minutes ago, womble said:

outside of Sorcery

You mean the Steal Breath cheese?

[womble]

9 minutes ago, Crel said:

I know it was being discussed around on the boards, and I'm pretty sure it was included in "Rune Fixes" (in the Dropbox of preview documents). A hotfix was suggested and implemented that when Extension is stacked with a spell, all RP associated with the spell cannot come back until the full duration is up, or it is dispelled, etc. Sort of a "the energy is still in effect" was how I understood it lore-wise. So, if you cast an Extension 5, Shield 3 with all 8 of your RP, you wouldn't get those points back until the spell ended (and so would have Shield for a year, but also wouldn't have RP...).

Making a Linked matrix of Extension and a spell sort of gets around this, because you're not using your own RP. Of course, you still need to amass all the POW to make the matrix in the first place, but with the new rule letting others contribute POW that's less difficult (though still not easy in an actual game environment).

You mean the Steal Breath cheese?

Thanks for the explanation.

RE: Sorcery: No, not as such, more that I've not done a dive into Sorcery yet, really, but I'm aware that very flexible systems are more likely to be bendy enough to have unforseen impacts on game play.

[Austin]

Speaking of arms races and bendy systems... Running some numbers in my head, and here's an example of what seems to me like the craziest horseshit a Lunar sorcerer could get up to; like, if the Red Emperor wanted to destroy Whitewall without the Crimson Bat type of crazy is what I'm looking for. This isn't exactly a Linked Spell shenanigan, but this thread feels closest to appropriate for munchkinery. Using the interpretation of sorcery inscription (p.390 in Core) that the bonus levels given by extra POW don't cost MP, but even with MP costs just means a bigger MP Matrix is needed, or to cast the spell on Full Moon Day.

Assume a max-stat, fanatical sorcerer being directly commanded by the Red Emperor. He has 21 POW and 18 INT, and only has the spell Moonfire (p.396) memorized. He's willing to die for the glory of the Red Moon. He has all four Runes/Techniques required for Moonfire mastered. He creates an inscription of Moonfire with 20 of his POW. This makes an inscription which has a base cost of 4MP (the basic cost of Moonfire) and an Intensity of 20 (1 base, and 19 additional intensity because of the extra POW spent). He assigns all the additional intensity to add to the spell strength (for a default of strength 20, for 4MP). He can still manipulate this with his full Free INT. He uses 4 Free INT on strength (bringing the total strength up to 24; base 1, +19 from inscribed POW, +4 from free INT which costs 4MP), and 8 Free INT on range (340m), with the last 6 free INT on duration (160min). This costs +18MP, a total of 22MP (which is the average of a 4-POW Magic Point Enchantment, rolling on 4d10), or 11MP on Full Moon Day.

This spell has strength 24, range 8, duration 6 for a total intensity of 38. At strength 24, Moonfire deals 6D6 damage to a random hit location to everything within a 320m radius each melee round. It can be cast from up to 340m away (just far enough!) and lasts for 160 minutes, or 800 melee rounds (at 5 rounds/minute, I believe?). The spell's active, so if the sorcerer is inside it when he casts he'll quickly die and end it prematurely, but at raw strength alone he could effectively commit suicide and cast the spell at strength 36, with two more points for duration (because why not?), to deal 9D6 damage a round to random hit locations to everything within a 2,560m radius. Still costing 22MP (or 11MP on Full Moon Day).

Using the interpretation that the bonus POW extends how much the spell can be manipulated (but that it still costs MP) means that this spell requires +19MP, total of 41MP (about 8 POW), or 21MP on Full Moon Day, which is the average on that big-but-plausible 4-POW matrix.

Kablewey.

(Note: Not saying this is likely to happen in an actual campaign, unless maybe the very absolute end of one. Just theory-crafting.)

[HreshtIronBorne]

Could you make a 'new' spell by combining something like a Matrix for Truesword and a Matrix for Thunderbolt with a trigger when you shout 'by the power of Orlanth' and thrust the sword in the air? The desire is a lightning sword. I dunno what needs to be combined. Or does one HQ for something like that?

[womble]

42 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Could you make a 'new' spell by combining something like a Matrix for Truesword and a Matrix for Thunderbolt with a trigger when you shout 'by the power of Orlanth' and thrust the sword in the air? The desire is a lightning sword. I dunno what needs to be combined. Or does one HQ for something like that?

I reckon if you got your Truesword off of Orlanth, you'd have crackling lightning running up and down the blade when you cast it, and so would anyone who used a Matrix you made. But just having a linked Matrix would just lightning bolt someone and make your sword all glowy (and very, very sharp).

A new rune spell would, I think, be fodder for a Heroquest, and it'd have to have some sort of basis in your God's actions (are there any 'reliable' stories about Orlanth having a lightning-bladed sword in your Glorantha?). It'd be something that only you could use, and probably not something given to anyone else unless it led to the foundation of a sub-cult or you Ascended and became the focus of a Hero Cult of some kind.

[Austin]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Could you make a 'new' spell by combining something like a Matrix for Truesword and a Matrix for Thunderbolt with a trigger when you shout 'by the power of Orlanth' and thrust the sword in the air? The desire is a lightning sword. I dunno what needs to be combined. Or does one HQ for something like that?

Maybe if you did a linked Truesword Rune Spell (from Orlanth) and Fireblade Spirit Magic spell? At least, as a GM I'd allow them to be linked to make an electric-flavored fireblade. Dunno about RAW.

[womble]

Personally, I'd be very leery of having that sort of mixmash of spells. Just linking a couple of enchantments emphatically doesn't make a new spell. It makes two existing spells go off at once. Since Orlanth doesn't commonly dole out Truesword or Fireblade, it's just a bit of a stretch for my Glorantha to have a lightning-y fireblade. I'd suggest it'd be some sort of quest to find a different spirit teacher to learn a spirit spell that's like Fireblade but uses lightning. That might not be a Hero quest, but it's probably most likely to be a Spirit quest and best undertaken by some sort of Kolating. It's not beyond reasonable that Orlanth, with his association with death and swords, might be associated with some sort of lightning-y Truesword spell, but as I said above, that's Heroquest territory for sure.

IMGAL (in my Glorantha, at least)

[HreshtIronBorne]

I was looking at thw wording of the Link Spell Condition and it specifically says it can combine spells for unique effects. This thread was a hopeful investigation of what unique effects might be acheieved by combining simple spells. Hulking out with Strength+Coordination+Mobility is great and all but, not super flavorful. I was hoping to find some neat combination of existing spells that was novel.

[Pentallion]

3 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Could you make a 'new' spell by combining something like a Matrix for Truesword and a Matrix for Thunderbolt with a trigger when you shout 'by the power of Orlanth' and thrust the sword in the air? The desire is a lightning sword. I dunno what needs to be combined. Or does one HQ for something like that?

So he holds his sword in the air, shouts "HE-MAN! yada yada" thunder strikes his sword and he goes all epic?  Yeah, that's got flavor for sure.  Truesword isn't orlanthi, however, so He-Man would have to belong to a cult that worshipped a god that gave Truesword and Thunderbolt.

[HreshtIronBorne]

The problem is really that there is no Lightning flavored Spirit Magic. Fire gets a ton of Spirit Magic, while lightning has nearly no presence.

[HreshtIronBorne]

How about an Elmali guardsmen that combines Glamour + Light + Protection to create a bright aura for his duties as a night watchman? Only one of these is cult magic but, he can still acquire them through purchase. 

[Revilo Divad Of Dyoll]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 7:28 AM, Crel said:

Speaking of arms races and bendy systems... Running some numbers in my head, and here's an example of what seems to me like the craziest horseshit a Lunar sorcerer could get up to; like, if the Red Emperor wanted to destroy Whitewall without the Crimson Bat type of crazy is what I'm looking for. This isn't exactly a Linked Spell shenanigan, but this thread feels closest to appropriate for munchkinery. Using the interpretation of sorcery inscription (p.390 in Core) that the bonus levels given by extra POW don't cost MP, but even with MP costs just means a bigger MP Matrix is needed, or to cast the spell on Full Moon Day.

Assume a max-stat, fanatical sorcerer being directly commanded by the Red Emperor. He has 21 POW and 18 INT, and only has the spell Moonfire (p.396) memorized. He's willing to die for the glory of the Red Moon. He has all four Runes/Techniques required for Moonfire mastered. He creates an inscription of Moonfire with 20 of his POW. This makes an inscription which has a base cost of 4MP (the basic cost of Moonfire) and an Intensity of 20 (1 base, and 19 additional intensity because of the extra POW spent). He assigns all the additional intensity to add to the spell strength (for a default of strength 20, for 4MP). He can still manipulate this with his full Free INT. He uses 4 Free INT on strength (bringing the total strength up to 24; base 1, +19 from inscribed POW, +4 from free INT which costs 4MP), and 8 Free INT on range (340m), with the last 6 free INT on duration (160min). This costs +18MP, a total of 22MP (which is the average of a 4-POW Magic Point Enchantment, rolling on 4d10), or 11MP on Full Moon Day.

This spell has strength 24, range 8, duration 6 for a total intensity of 38. At strength 24, Moonfire deals 6D6 damage to a random hit location to everything within a 320m radius each melee round. It can be cast from up to 340m away (just far enough!) and lasts for 160 minutes, or 800 melee rounds (at 5 rounds/minute, I believe?). The spell's active, so if the sorcerer is inside it when he casts he'll quickly die and end it prematurely, but at raw strength alone he could effectively commit suicide and cast the spell at strength 36, with two more points for duration (because why not?), to deal 9D6 damage a round to random hit locations to everything within a 2,560m radius. Still costing 22MP (or 11MP on Full Moon Day).

Using the interpretation that the bonus POW extends how much the spell can be manipulated (but that it still costs MP) means that this spell requires +19MP, total of 41MP (about 8 POW), or 21MP on Full Moon Day, which is the average on that big-but-plausible 4-POW matrix.

Kablewey.

(Note: Not saying this is likely to happen in an actual campaign, unless maybe the very absolute end of one. Just theory-crafting.)

I don't know if that would work or not, but I suspect that the Gift Carriers will be visiting you soon.

[HreshtIronBorne]

I figured I would revive this thread than create another. 

If a character with an enchanted item containing Linked Matrices for Mobility + Coordination + Strength decides to cast a Multispell 2. He casts Mobility targeting 2 different people. All of the spells activate when one is cast, so all three spells are cast on both targets correct? This can be triggered with any of the individual spells from the Matrix correct?

[Kloster]

On 12/3/2018 at 6:31 AM, HreshtIronBorne said:

I figured I would revive this thread than create another. 

If a character with an enchanted item containing Linked Matrices for Mobility + Coordination + Strength decides to cast a Multispell 2. He casts Mobility targeting 2 different people. All of the spells activate when one is cast, so all three spells are cast on both targets correct? This can be triggered with any of the individual spells from the Matrix correct?

What I understand is that the linked spells becomes 1 single big spell, so the multispell is not cast on Mobility, but on the combined spell. In that case, you are right the multispell would cast the combined spell on 2 different targets.

Kloster

Edited December 4, 2018 by Kloster

[Kloster]

Sorry, wrong button.

Kloster