Shiningbrow

See my reply above about sources. To add to that, I think I see sorcery as like making music. Different traditions all over the world access and deliver music, but in very different ways, using vastly different tools, delivering different - even if similar - sounds. For the analogy, different sources and different techniques and tools can lead to very similar effects. Imagine the amount of time and energy spent learning will be fairly similar though.

That's that God Learners heresy stuff you're talking there!!! Besides which... How to approach it, and all the contexts added in, will be important! After all, is the Air Rune a non-intelligent force created by the Invisible God (I've read the terminology, but never bothered to commit it to memory... I'm sure others here have), it is it Orlanth, or something completely different? Is the Lunar vision and experience of, say, Death the same as the others? IRL, we have quite a number of different things labelled "sorcery", and they tend to be very different, even when they have a similar background. So, no. I don't think they are reaching to the same source.

I figured that point would come up (and, thanks for reminding me of WAW - I knew I missed one!) However, I don't think I'm convinced. Yes, I get it's an Insightful casting. And I get it's a Dispel. I'm just not convinced that a CA would use any Death runes, for any purpose. Just like, apparently, they wouldn't even use a shield for defensive purposes. Of course, yada yada varying Gloranthas......

On page 79, under Armor Materials, we have: Scale, Light or Heavy: Small metal plates (usually bronze) sewn onto leather in an overlapping pattern. An excellent, if heavy, protection. Light scales are small and thin, heavy scales are thicker and larger. However, on p81, under Armor Types, it has, "Hauberk, Light Scale: This armor consists of hundreds of boiled leather plates that have been laced together." Obviously, this is confusing... is it leather or metal?

Except... When learning Runes and Techniques, you need to go to its source (as per the quote from the book in the OP). I would think that this then affects how the spells are conceived in your mind.

@Joerg some interesting background, but for an get to the heart of my questions. Which is about how sorcery is learner and practiced by cults such as Issaries & Chalana Arroy. Do they use Lhankoring sorcery, and so it's all gone through the Alien Recombination Machine? Or some other form. And thus, they could swap spell teaching? Or would it be incompatible? Or... Are we looking at a situation where cult associations are such that multiple initiation is occurring in order to learn the techniques? Are sorcerous cults willing to teach anyone who can pay? And could a Lhankor Mhy sorcerer pay, say, a Lunar magician to teach them a spell that they could then use within their current paradigm, or would they have to completely re-acquire their techniques etc (ie, the sorcery is incompatible). For the CA & Issaries, I'd presume it relates to where in the world they are, and because they're both fairly open and tolerant cults, they'd be open to adopting almost any way...

Just thinking on screen... Where does the sorcery that is allowed by Issaries and Chalana Arroy come from? Is it godless Mekdeki? Is it purified and holy Lhankoring? And given that learning new Runes or Techniques requires "achieving intellectual union with the source of their magic (be it the Invisible God, the One, the Great Mind, Logic, ..." , wouldn't that mean also being a member (initiate) of a cult that does teach sorcery? And thus, could either of those learn from the other, or teach them? Or could/would they be incompatible? (I realise I'm probably asking questions that should really be answered in some other upcoming book... And what we currently have is only a gapfill)

I'll probably start a separate thread on a topic like this, but..... I presume we'd all be fine with a CA learning sorcery to heal, fight diseases, and perhaps a range of other innocuous spells. But, what about Dampen Damage? RAW, and only currently in the RQG, that requires using the Death Rune. And I'd presume a few might take issue with that (especially CA herself). Yeah, I get that someone will want to say "just use a different Rune combination, and create a spell with the same effect". But... Do any here think using Dampen Damage with Death Rune would be ok??? Is such knowledge forbidden?

I'm working @Darius Weston this, although I don't need a full list of rules to follow... Just a clarification, or a paragraph. An actual "oath", rather than the suggestion of one. While the RL examples mentioned above are obvious, they do lack that vital element of a real god taking away one's miraculous healing powers of you transgress... I could just say, "play your CA" how you want, and that could allow for a multitude of variations, they may take away from Greg's intent (which is obviously fine, btw). Earlier, we've read that even picking up a shield to stop getting hit was apparently a violation of the oath (let alone hitting something with it - including undead or Chaos). That's surprised quite a few here... So, clearly clarification would be good. Also, I'd like to know why they're all vegetarian, given a) all plants are life, and b) the CA isn't doing the killing or harming when an animal is killed & butchered... Why is a acceptable, but b is not? Pretty arbitrary to me...

Agreed! Somewhere there were written up optional results for specials and crits that were merely extra damage, which is way more realistic... It's already in the W&E book for nets etc.

I'm taking it more than the said skill isn't used or taught very much, at the very least by LM. I would expect it to show up again in books on different schools of sorcery, such as Western or Mostali. Apologies for the off topic...

My money's on "The big book of Runequest Glorantha culty-type things: What you never realised you did - and didn't need to know."

I'm trying to think of this from a simulationist perspective - what happens in the real world? Quite often (well, ok, not really... and certainly not much any more), when defending against a melee armed combatant, you'd try to not get hit with the full power of the blow, and in the case of sharp weapons, try not to actually get hit with the sharp bit (so, flat of blade, point of spear/dagger). Even if you are hit with the sharp bit, a "successful" parry would indicate not getting hit at the right angle to cause the damage. Or, if it is, then it's more likely to be with a less life-threatening way - ie, the side of the arm along the ulna rather than the fleshy (bloody) bit along the flat of the arm. I'll also throw in here that RQ isn't simulationist, and thus the 'parry' as we understand it is a combination of blocking, dodging, deflecting, etc. It certainly shouldn't be seen a static, put something in the way to block and take the full impact... So, taking all of that into account, I think the 1HP is appropriate, rather than the full force of a normal, unparried, blow. The bonus for martial arts could be seen not so much as toughening up, but as acquiring the appropriate skills to minimise the damage by learning better placement and tactics.

Sources!!! We needs sources for horses... )well, ok, half-horses)... Of courses!

Tap? A variant of Neutralise Rune?

I'm going to disagree a little, and suggest that sorcery casting is generally objectively different than Rune or Spirit spells. Rune Magic is usually big and flashy as you exhort your god to grant you specific changes in the world. Spirit spells are generally quick, and quietly focussed, with maybe a small chant or mantra. Sorcery, OTOH, is usually quietly meditative, but with complex hand gestures to help with the focus. However, I'll also say that a) most Orlanthi have never seen a sorcerer in action, b) trust that LMs are just doing their God's special magic, and, c) there's a very different word for LM sorcery, and the godless stuff... Which the LM temples are very loud in venting and ranting about!

Link?

Valid, true and fair. (I'd be one of the outliers - I'd love to have the hard copies, and have the funds to buy... But not going to happen while I'm in China). I was only trying to point out that sales aren't a true reflection of preference. Otherwise, we'd have to presume that people prefer to drive a cheap Toyota rather than a Porsche or BMW...

I agree with @simonh here - the CA initiate must atone before having access to their Rune Spells again. However, I'd presume that the CA temples are somewhat used to that, and are prepared. After all, accidents do happen, and those zealots can be very pedantic.

Very true. Mostali are.most definitely the current scientists of Glorantha, what with advanced weaponry, masonry, smithing techniques, alchemy, and all those other inventions... I was trying to be a bit tongue in cheek with it... Obviously failed 😞

Well, we *know* that can't be true, because not every LM initiate will have the INT to learn Runes or Techniques. So, I think - only those heading down a sorcerous path would learn them - certainly not forcing everyone with the INT to be forced to learn them (and sacrifice the POW). I think it's already been said that some factions within the LM temple structure are anti-sorcery, while others are obviously pro- (and presumably, some on the fence). Character creation indicates something like this, as you have to choose either spirit magic or sorcery.

p55 - Inns & Residences - "A Yelm cultist who places something under his protection has the responsibility of a ruler to keep their word and to protect". I suggest changing something to someone (or just adding it), to make sense in this context. Also, add "them" to the end of the sentence. p56 - Funerary Rites - first sentence - "Death in all its forms are inevitable parts of life" - should be singular (ie, "Death... is an inevitable part..."). Also p56 - under Burial Marker - "along with other information as their cult" - information such as their cult - or whatever it was supposed to say, but left out. Cont'd - "Usually takes two days to make longer if it is ornate." Need to separate the ideas here, such as with a dash between 'make' and 'longer'. Cenotaph - "...or even one who had achieved Herodom". The 'even' implies that those who achieve herodom wouldn't normally get a cenotaph... whereas it's much more likely that they would!! (certainly more likely than a lousy God Talker!) So, either ditch the 'even', or change the 'Herodom' down a tier to ''acted heroically" or similar.

p50 - Healing - " (or the nearest temple, if the healer is unaffiliated with a temple)" - why would a temple get the money, and not some organisation that the healer is affiliated with? This doesn't really make a lot of sense to me... "if an adventurer is saved from disease or poison or maiming or death by the actions of a healer," - do we really need all those conjunctions? Just separate with a comma, and then the 'or' for the last. Massage - "then the client is anointing with a layer of oil and massaged" - should be annointed. Mentioned previously, but instead of the feminine "masseuse", and the corresponding masculine of 'masseur', you could just use the generic (gender-neutral) "(massage) therapist". Still P50... Compose a Love Poem - balLad - unless you're using some strange spelling or non-standard English version of the word. P51 - following on from the previous section on poems, songs, etc, it has a short section on Heralds, but then has another paragraph relating to famous bards knowing where the audiences are... I'd suggest moving this to before the bit on Heralds. (also, speaking of Heralds - it might be a good idea to suggestion who won't care about them...Do Issaries heralds enjoy safety in troll lands, akin to Argan Argar initiates?)

I just posted in the Q&A, but... What if the "enemy" doesn't know you're there? What if it's conditional, like crossing a threshold to a temple before a guardian is alerted?

😮 Surely the God Learners were the archetype of scientists... Theorizing, testing, modifying, experimenting... I'd say Mostali as well, but science sort of requires the willingness to change (ideas, theories, practices)...