French Desperate WindChild

I'm not on the same line than @svensson 🙂 Don't know who is the more " canon " however here is my glorantha (of course everything I write is in addition of the rules, test, exclusion, etc...): I consider four levels of religion membership 1) you are part of a community worshipping a pantheon ( one god can be found in several pantheon) 2) you may join a cult as lay member of a pantheon very easily. For a short period / opportunity or for a long time / devotion. As a lay member you may obtain some advantage (training, etc..) and you show your devotion by participating in ceremony and prayers (to ask help or to thank for help). Of course you may sacrifice what you want (but there are probably some minimum amount to give to not offend the god or the cult) 3) you may join a cult as initiate of a pantheon and learn some cult secrets (well, but is not really important in rqg, you can learn some rune spells too) The first initiation is "easy" as any community gives you the opportunity to join a cult around the rites of adulthood. The next initiations would be, in my glorantha, possible but more difficult. Your actual priest (first cult) may ask herself if you are still a god worshipper or if you want only stay in the cult for some social advantages, like an opportunist... Same for the new cult. Why this guy would like to join us ? Does he love the other god ? Will he love my god ? What if he has to choose ? etc... 4) you may now be a holy person (rune level). You probably don't have to prove anything, and your issue, if there is a issue, would be more with your god (that is a npc for me, not just a source of spell) than with your priest. but that the first dimension, there is another: the relationship between the two gods / cults (or more) - Some cults in the same pantheon are very closed : for example Issaries and Lankhor Mhy. Both explore to find things (artefact, antiquities, ...), both trade (knowledge), so here I don't see any difficulties - Some cults in the same pantheon are very far apart for examples Chalana Arroy and Humakt. One heal without violence, the other kill with violence (and style, of course). How the priests of the two cults will understand you want to stay in the first and join the second. Sounds weird, isn't it ? But it should be possible, if you can demonstrate the pertinence. Very rare but possible Maybe you may want to join a cult outside your pantheon - It could be a a spirit cult. Sounds weird for your primary cult but why not. After all it is just a little spirit, no shadow on our great god (of course if you are a water cult initiate and want to join oakfed cult... that's not really acceptable) - it could be a very strange cult, unknown by your community. Then you have to demonstrate there is no danger for your community, for your loyalties - and it could be a known cult of another pantheon, is this pantheon associated, in your community, with ennemy ? (I'm not talking about sun versus darkness, but more a local temporal issue : some orlanthi clan are friend with trolls, some are ennemies) You realy want to join our ennemy's god ? Are you a traitor ? Will the initiation change yourself, your soul ? (say you want to join aldrya or kyger litor , your soul will be changed) Not sure your first cult/god will recognize you Is your 'new' cult associated by the runes, goals, etc... ? For example an Issaries merchant want to join Argan Argar ? Probably easier to be accepted by both cults than trying to join Gorakiki so, in my glorantha, you will find few people initiate inseveral structured cults. Because they are structured, strong and need a lot from you (the 10% of course, but more than that, your loyalty, fidelity, faith) and any deviation is suspicious. More (not a lo however) may have some "alliance" with a local spirit, the nymph who is our neighbour, etc.. But you will find them, and of course pc would get the opportunity to join or would try to. Just they would have to demonstrate (deeds, favor, roleplay, ...) they are good reasons. two remarks then : 1) the tithes: anything you gain should be included as income, the swords you plunder, the cows you were gifted after a raid *, any benefits you make during a trade. Remember you can pay with money, but with anything acceptable for your cult (food, gear, etc) * except if the tithe is taken by the ring before the distribution. But if you are multi initiate, consider only your main local cult is already "paid" not the others 2) the creation : I will stop this post, but you can see here what I do for the skill. For the magic it is easy, you have 3 rune points and 5 spirit spell points to distribute it seems I have reach the lay member status level in @Joerg LM subcult. Hope I will not be cursed

I can understand some GMs want to create stats, no problem. (I would use stats for her if they were published, but i don't need them because that's jar eel, this awesome goddess avatar) the most important thing I don't understand is the concept of a GM cheating. People cheat to beat others in a competition (or a competitive game) But what is the interest for a GM to cheat ? supersede players ? why ? finishing the night with "hey hey, you are all dead, I m the winner" ? never played with someone like this for sure, and I would stop after one session, or maybe less if I meet a gm like that what is the difference between considering : a) the superhero has 300% skill : creation (with all the magics spent by her family during so many years - bless pregnancy, etc... - ) + xp + buffs from her followers + buffs because she is prepared and not surprised + heroic powers (next heroquesting rules). In addition, thousands of worshippers giving her enough heropoints to resist any spells, heroic abilities allowing her to multi cast in one round ten sever spirits, madness to every one in 100m radius and why not "duplicate body" super power (next heroquesting rules) and apply the rules versus b) considering there are very few chance to survive if the players decide, after the GM warns them, that is a suicide to attack her. a) is rule compliant so b) is a cheat ? And how to determine if 300% is the right number ? if she is able or not to sever spirits ? or to provoke madness and not lust or love ? How many bodies could be allowed ? don't know... If there is no official stat for a npc, I would not advice anyone to create stats, they could be accused of cheating because she is too powerful or not enough ! Is it a cheat to decide there are 3 broos in the next cave ? To decide the boss has 80% or 60% or explode when dead ? Is it a cheat to decide without any roll that if you jump from Kerofin you will die if you do nothing (DI, fly spell, any good idea) ? Is it a cheat if Orlanth himself -aka the gm- decides to save you because it was roleplayed as a pure devotion deed ? I don't understand where is the cheat and why a gm would like to "cheat". So for me it is not a cheat (with all the pejorative sense) but a gm style among others. Not better, not worse, than others. Just one style. Some like it, some are not confortable with it because there is no rule to support it, some dislike it. That is not an issue. That should not be an issue. That should be good food for thought

by the way, is the spike just from ground (0 to +6000km), or can we find it in the underworld (from -6000km to +6000 km) ?

yeah maybe I did a shortcut : in case of pure fight 1+2+3+4 for a quick fight OR 1+2+ her death, hope you will be able to not be wounded by her four weapons with your only 5% to parry / dodge them I wanted to propose other ways than succeeding a mechanical fight. The 1+2+3+4 is a fight with a psychological impact -so some option to stop the fight before a deadly end-, the second option is to find some smart ways to reduce her fighting powers (or to raise the pc chances to succeed a roll), the third option is more roleplay / social play than fighting absolument d'accord (you will learn french, my dear teacher 😉 )

Did he ? what if that's something else... something like an opportunity to go in the mundane world for some entity blocked by the compromise what if it is a spiritual alliance not seen by others ? what if the success was only due to a death rune at 100% (aka no more pc, just npc) what if it was some smart idea (or luck) Harreck had and not only brute force ? etc.. in all cases, I don't say it is impossible, I say it is very very hard, that is my 1+2+3+4 exception case. And I explained too there were other ways than fight. So my answer is not NO, it is "probably no, but you can try" Yes I understand in some sad cases, it was just a metaphor, don't want to challenge it 🙂

yes the lesson of the white bull campain is you can defeat her, but not with your weapons (or not only with your weapons) so if your pcs have not successfully heroquested to gain enough divine power to fight a goddess, well they are just ridiculous ants wanting to fight a human baby are 5-6 ants able to kill a human baby ? note that I would like (I don't need it) to have some sort of canon stats and powers for these people (Miss Eel, Harreck and co, is Argrath a shaman ? ar rune lord ? both ? what draconic power he has ?) just to define the "scale". but without it, in my glorantha / gm feeling : unprepared pc should not yet defeat her in fight except if 1) they succeeds to touch her (roll < 5, even if they have 150%, weapons , spells, anything) 2) they do a lot of damage ( something like at least 20 damage in 1 hit) at least 2 or 3 times (add one each time one pc is out) 3) they show some "lunar ennemy" power ( call air rune, use a big storm spell in the 2.) 4) one of them, "the hero", succeeds to intimidate her (augmented by devotion, hate lunar, any usefull passion) once the damage are done then she may run away. (edit/ to be clear it is not 1 or 2 or 3 or 4, it is 1 AND 2 AND 3 AND 4) another option is to find something to reduce her powers, even if you (or me) GM don't know her power. That would allow to reduce the 1) penalty or the 2) required damage minimum. In the white bull campaign, from my perspective, the true hero (the one who was the changemaker) is this insupportable 😛 esrolian Ty Kora Tek fashionista. Not the eternal Orlanthi ennemy, not the death bringer Humakti, not the chaos destroyer shaman Storm Buller. So any good idea from the pc, understanding who she is, what she loves, what she hates, what she fears could help. That is more roleplaying than roll a dice (even if personally, I would ask for a roll, but without penalty if the idea is nice) but for ridiculous pc (compared to her) the best way would be to seduce her (by charm, intelligence, courage or ...) Maybe after it, they may be teached some lunar illumination way, of course they get some Jar Eel devotion at 90% (or loyalty if you don't consider her as a goddess, or love if one player roleplay something like that, or a lot of different passions... I love passions) After some warnings before they decide anything, the pc should understand they will die (even if they have few opportunities to succeed, but they should not hope too much). Then it is up to them to decide to run away (gain fear lunar, fear Jar eel, lose honor if they have, ...) or decide to sacrifice themselves for their convictions. Because they are heroes, and heroes die heroically.

because brillant needs light, and a gold shieldwall with few spirit mp may offer some blindness (aka -75% penalty ?) to the opponents ? of course it is not raw, but is it really raw conflicting ?

not why, but when 🙂 if you read a lot of posts here, the issue is not a table desiring effectiveness. that is this "yelmic" notion of "you don't do/think what I expect, that sucks" which is challenged, not the choice of any table. There are other options because there are different gaming styles. And with some other gaming styles, cults design seems to me very appropriate / "eff-ective" to play As I said, a "low ranked" cult as written offers a lot of opportunities, when GM and players propose them.

when humakt and bg are chosen because their spells are more powerful than other warriors cults, it is minmaxing when humakt and bg are chosen because it is interesting to play a character with some specific psychology, behaviors and duties, it is not minmaxing I think all the debate is here, when you create a ranking of gods, it is for minmaxing. If not, what is the purpose of a ranking ?

no no, it was about an event outside the contest, not a test to determine the champion

bah... I m not a specialist, but what is a phalanx without pike + shield combo ? (I m really not a specialist, so maybe phalanx is something different than what I imagine)

in the garhound festival, I remember lunar and sartarite (garhund people) competitors too, probably not only yelmalian

is it really white and black ? for me it is more grey : 1) yelmalio, as you said, could be the cult for the night guards, or even the day guards (or the guards could be choosen because their cult abilities) 2) yelmalian nomads could do their duty on their mount. ok, you may have "static" guards near some tents, but the herd is important too, very very important, and you need night guards to protect it too, so why not on mount ? 3) yelmalian nomads could use spear on their mount that's not because one useful skill in a culture (aka ride your tribe beast) is not in a cult that is an issue, that's just your cult doesn't help you, but as your culture does it, it is the same in fact (aka one roll every season if you wish) and maybe, this so important link between horse and yelmalio may explain why some nomads "accept" horse riders even when their tribes dislike them

for me, they are the weirdos people who prefer wilderness than farm & sheep way of life. the bear is the one who defends with all it strength is few teddy companions but prefer to be alone than meet too many people the cat is the one who prefer to sneak, caress and watch the stars but avoid any community work the bull (yes a hunter god, the chaos hunter god) is like the bear but, when the bear is more a "protector", the bull is more an "aggressor" and has no problem to live inside the community and take advantage of its opportunities (beer, etc...). Then of course there is the chaos fighter aspect foundchild is different, he is the wild human. Would say he is for those who have less attachement to the community than others but without this "special" beast attributes and instincts. don't know if it fits with the expected gods of glorantha, that's just my opinion

you're right @svensson (even if I change my creation process to "allow" more variation than what is proposed in the default background.) however @Rodney Dangerduck shows a true problem with the Snakepipe Hollow example. now is it really a cult issue ? for me no. It is an issue, clearly we are in tunnels and caves without natural light . What was the light sources ? Torches ? What kind of ennemies (GM) , able to fight in darkness, don't try to put the torches out ? No light ? our humatki has -75% to fight, when troll and yelmalian shouldn't, so 8mp with sword transe, just to overcome the penalty. What ? Magic... oh Yelmalio is usefull then how much time should last the exploration ? 15 min ? 30 min ? more than 2 hours ? mmm after two or three fights our humakti will have no more runepoints... or maybe burn it with extension .. then unable to change strategy if other spells are needed (what ? there are undead and you are no more able to chase them ? you a humakti duck ?). Who will heal and save the party ? probably this too weak yelmalian as he didn't use his specific runespells, so useless ! and then is our duck able, with its ridiculous wings to peak a lock or deactivate a trap, letting the others covering his back ? Or will he proudly scan (so do nothing, because nothing-gm will happen) to let a partner succeeds this step and get the focus ? what about this cave where opponents can fire arrow (or acid) from overhead, where no sword can hit ? what about this darkness altar, giving some help if a "pure" troll (no stranger cult) is able to worship the Mother ? what about this relic, lost centuries ago by some light worshippers ? Will the sun dome leaders be proud of the the yelmalian and honor him ? or congratulate this f@! winged... thing, unable to fly ? of course any of my examples could be debatable, but the sense is here. GM could do a lot of things to solve the issue I mean, rpg are social and supportive gaming Players would have pleasure to overcome the difficulties with the role they want to explore, whatever statistics are provided GM would have pleasure to "play" the main goal of a GM: organizing, diversifying encounters to let everyone become a hero, or, better, part of a heroic group (or anti hero, or anything players want to "be"). the scenario provides a script, helpful to have a good session. Helpful, not mandatory to follow without any divergence. of course it is only my taste. Of course sometimes I fail, as a player or as a gm. yes I understand that new players and GM (I mean, not new in glorantha, but new in rpg) may need help to see what they can do on a table, and how it is different from these inapropriate named "rpg" computer games.

and there are some who said the opposite. And the explanation is based on one word : "roleplay & background" check my previous posts, and others, there are explanations. anyone has is own cursor between rules and roleplay, between being the strongest in the group and being useful to the group (as a player), between favorizing one kind of play style and offering opportunities to all styles to have one day the "first" role (as a gm) but this personal cursor should not define what is good or what is wrong, what sucks, and what's great. there are things I love in rqg, there are things I dislike a little bit. But I don't say hey this rule / cult / occupation / spell sucks, I first look for why it was designed as is, and if the answers don't convince me, I create my house rules. End of the discussion. There is no reason to consider my choice are better than the designers choice If I consider a game rules suck, that means this game is not for me, that's all, no offense for the game, no offense for the players.

I did not say "fault", I said problem. It is not a question of moral judgment. Reread my post, I just said it is not a rule issue. And what I proposed was some help too, not house rules, more explanation of the so many possibilities. there are some key sentences in glorantha I always have in mind your glorantha may vary, there is no absolute truth violence is always an option, so yes fight is important there is always another way, the supposed weakness should let you imagine other options to succeed but is it really usefull ? not sure, if people want absolutly to be right, to be the one who knows and if others disagree that means others are wrong...

yep however the issue with your description is focus only on fight, that doesn't describe, from a roleplay perspective, what are the social relationships, the expected behaviours, etc... then not sure Bab's or Humakt are the best, not sure a yelmalian is so bad. These kind of detail should be provided too, to help people to choose. Remember the one, in a pc party (white bull campain), who first "defeated" JarEel is an esrolian Ty Kora Tek initiate. and that is all the issue with these ranking, worst, etc topics ... that is focused on power gaming. What about background, role, etc.. RQG wealth is glorantha background not fighting system. If I had to play a warrior in a sun dome campaign, of course I would choose a yelmalian, no doubt. Probably a polestar in a lunar campagain. An orlanthi in a sartarite one, an argan argari in an esrolian one, and a lodrili in a praxian one. Don't need to show I have the "strongest" character, because everybody knows, I know, I have the longest 😛

is it the right problem in fact ? you're right, the key word is "new" GM and players and if you remove "new", the problem is GM and players. if a GM is not able, (or doesn't want) to adapt or create a scenario, the opponents to fit with the pcs, is it a rule issue ? if a player is not able (or doesn't want) to find another way than more protection and more damage, is it a rule issue ? tout est dit so maybe, a chapter / supplement dedicated to learn rpg / how a "weak" pc can participate in hard actions, what a gm can do when a (all) pc are too weak to succeed the scenario) or maybe if occupations and cults are so difficult, a little help for each one : "this occupation/cult is for you if blablabla; this occupation/cult is not for you if blablabla " copyright @pookie for this is for you concept. A very good idea

So do I, I always understood it about the price (silver) during the play . the confusion seems to me the twice cost ( 2 creation points = 1 spell point). that's the issue with lunar magic, once illuminate you're lost, before it you're lost

I have read recently... but unable to remember where, a previous edition for sure... that shaman have spirit (the fetch) when other have soul (this kind of difference between great spirits and gods) I don't know if it is still "canon" or if I misuderstood it or anything (would prefer - for a "simple" view - that shaman have soul and awaken spirit as a part of their soul when others have soul and sleeping spirit part of their soul)

no, just some women facing a drama, people (any gender / sex) have a lot of different reactions some will become violent some will remain silent or withdraw to the clan (for a long time or not) some will "remove" it and continue to live as usual etc so yes it is a good idea to have a woman following bab's after that but a lot will continue to be ernaldan, the show (life) must go on

female : very probably shaman: probably without a community to support: maybe that's my idea: witch is a shaman (power) but has not the social role of a shaman (heal, protect, ...) the community. they do what they want ( good way for yinkini shaman right ?) that doesn't mean they cannot help. Just it is not a duty that doesn't mean they don't have duty, they may have to follow their spirit society rules and hierarchy, just they don't have to manage spiritualy a clan just my idea, no source to provide

there is not a worst cult when you have no rp there is lot of worst cults, those who are not accepted, appreciated where you are

the only reason I see is, to train ride skill, you need to ride a horse, to train kuschile archery you need... a pommel horse (or maybe some friends playing the horse) So many things we can do with magic 🙂 not totally a joke, kuschile technic may offer some workaround, maybe it allows to train yourself with a less quality horse (not trained, or I don't know) , or a part of the training is some movement without horse or things like that (so 1 horse = 3 "students" at the same times). don't know if it is the right thread or the dumbest theory however.