Nephilim, Superworld - Does Anyone Still Play These RPGs?

[ColoradoCthulhu]

I was checking out Chaosium's website and looked at the 'Other RPGs' section. Superworld hasn't been developed since the 1980s and Nephilim hasn't been touched since the 1990s. I know that Chaosium has a new science-fiction RPG based on the BRP system in the works (something like the now defunct Futureworld, perhaps), but these other BRP games might have close to zero players at this point.

The costs of keeping the PDFs for the two games for sale on the website is minimal, so if there are just a handful of download purchases every year its probably worth it to leave them there. Thoughts?

Edited August 30, 2019 by ColoradoCthulhu

[g33k]

Yeah, people DO still play those games.  Superworld, in particular, gets the GRRM/GoT boost.

But as you say -- keeping the PDFs for sale via the online storefront has minimal (essentially zero) cost.  Why NOT keep them up?  Given that it'd take work (and thus cost) to scrub the website & e-store...

Also, it's always possible that some author/developer might get excited at the idea of revisiting those games, and make a pitch that Chaosium would like... So they are signalling that they don't see these as "dead" products.

[ColoradoCthulhu]

Both Magic World and Mythic Iceland were updated in 2012, and Mythic Iceland may still receive updates in the future. I even saw a physical copy of Mythic Iceland at my local gaming store here in Colorado Springs.  But Magic World is officially no longer being developed by Chaosium according to a post on these forums. 

Something I've noticed is that a number of products on the Chaosium website lack a publication date, even in the drop down menu details. I had to find the publication dates for the Magic World and Mythic Iceland supplements on rpg.net.

[g33k]

54 minutes ago, ColoradoCthulhu said:

Both Magic World and Mythic Iceland were updated in 2012, and Mythic Iceland may still receive updates in the future. I even saw a physical copy of Mythic Iceland at my local gaming store here in Colorado Springs.  But Magic World is officially no longer being developed by Chaosium according to a post on these forums. 

Something I've noticed is that a number of products on the Chaosium website lack a publication date, even in the drop down menu details. I had to find the publication dates for the Magic World and Mythic Iceland supplements on rpg.net.

MW is getting a new supplement!  A 3rd-party licensee is producing the new book.

Also, the author of Mythic Iceland is deep into a project to 2e that book; iirc a rough draft has gone to Chaosium & is now back with the author for revision (with planned supplements to follow!).

Edited August 30, 2019 by g33k
I think my Iceland info is outdated, it looks like a final ms. IS @Chaosium

[Kloster]

I stopped playing Superworld when I shifted to Champions around 1988. This was more because I thought the Hero system was better for supers and BRP was better for gritty games than because of the (lack of) support at the time. The fact that there has been 3 new versions of Champions vs nothing for Superworld does in fact reinforce the problem.

Nephilim is not a Chaosium game. It was developed by Multisim. The Chaosium version I saw was a translation of the french 1st edition. There has been at least 3 other versions in french, but none have been translated. There are still enough french players (of which I am not) to enable the authors to find publishers.

[sladethesniper]

I have both games, but don't play either.  I use some of the ideas from Nephilim in my CoC games....  As for Superworld, I think most of that was covered in the BGB.

-STS

[Zulfikar Zaban]

My friends and I are hoping to start a game of Nephilim in the future. I bought the books 20 years ago and never found anyone to play. Hope to sometime in the future.

[sladethesniper]

You actually have players that want to play Nephilim?  Wow...That is so cool.  I envy you.

-STS

[Simlasa]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:18 AM, Kloster said:

The fact that there has been 3 new versions of Champions vs nothing for Superworld does in fact reinforce the problem.

I can't think of any game I've stopped playing because the publisher didn't have it on an edition treadmill. I've never had someone refuse to play a game because of that reason either... though I suppose that person might be out there, "I will not play any game that has had less than three published editions!"

Anyway, Superworld is on my short-list of games I want to run sometime soon. This time as a conversion for The Whispering Vault... and it seems like the Nephilim are something that could/should show up in After The Vampire Wars.

[g33k]

49 minutes ago, Simlasa said:

I can't think of any game I've stopped playing because the publisher didn't have it on an edition treadmill. I've never had someone refuse to play a game because of that reason either... though I suppose that person might be out there, "I will not play any game that has had less than three published editions!"

There's a thing where supplements create "buzz" and interest.  People read reviews, people see recruitments online or in FLGS's / etc...

If you've got a regular group (congratulations!) and say to them, "I want to run <Older Game X>," your friends are likely to say "sure!"   Matters may differ for others not so blessed...  

[Simlasa]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

If you've got a regular group (congratulations!) and say to them, "I want to run <Older Game X>," your friends are likely to say "sure!"   Matters may differ for others not so blessed...  

True, but if we were to let that concern guide all our choices of what to run we'd not be playing much except D&D.
Also, I don't think I'd want to play anything with the sort of person who wouldn't play because a game solely because it was 'old'.
The GM of one group I'm in changes game systems a couple times a year and most all of us have been fine with his choices, because he's a good GM and it's a good group and those are the elements that matter most... and I can't see any value in having him run something he's not revved up about.

[Mugen]

On 8/30/2019 at 7:18 PM, Kloster said:

The fact that there has been 3 new versions of Champions vs nothing for Superworld does in fact reinforce the problem.

But nowadays, you can put this on the cover:

"Superworld, the game that was used by GRR Martin, author of Game of Thrones, for a supers RPG game that inspired his WildCards series."

On 8/30/2019 at 7:18 PM, Kloster said:

Nephilim is not a Chaosium game. It was developed by Multisim. The Chaosium version I saw was a translation of the french 1st edition. There has been at least 3 other versions in french, but none have been translated. There are still enough french players (of which I am not) to enable the authors to find publishers.

A fifth one has been released recently.

Nevertheless, like every edition since the third, it does not use BRP.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Mugen

[Kloster]

7 hours ago, Simlasa said:

I can't think of any game I've stopped playing because the publisher didn't have it on an edition treadmill. I've never had someone refuse to play a game because of that reason either... though I suppose that person might be out there, "I will not play any game that has had less than three published editions!"

As I wrote above, I quit playing Superworld because I thought (and still think) that Champions is better in modeling Superpowered characters, as BRP is better to simulate gritty, lower level games. The lack of support of Superworld is not a reason to quit in itself, but does worsen the problem.

6 hours ago, g33k said:

There's a thing where supplements create "buzz" and interest.  People read reviews, people see recruitments online or in FLGS's / etc...

Right. They also give ideas when lacking inspiration.

6 hours ago, g33k said:

If you've got a regular group (congratulations!) and say to them, "I want to run <Older Game X>," your friends are likely to say "sure!"   Matters may differ for others not so blessed...  

I had such a blessing. This is not the case anymore.

[Kloster]

27 minutes ago, Mugen said:

A fifth one has been released recently.

I didn't knew.

27 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Nevertheless, like every edition since the third, it does not use BRP.

I didn't knew either. Thanks for the info. What system does it use?

[Kloster]

31 minutes ago, Mugen said:

But nowadays, you can put this on the cover:

"Superworld, the game that was used by GRR Martin, author of Game of Thrones, for a supers RPG game that inspired his WildCards series."

Yes, but how many people remember Wildcards?

[Mugen]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

I didn't knew either. Thanks for the info. What system does it use?

I didn't read it, so my explanations are based on reviews I read on internet ( http://www.legrog.org/jeux/nephilim/nephilim-legende/quintessence-cinquieme-ed-fr, for instance)

A Nephilim is defined by ranks in each of the five Ka elements, and rankings in a series of "Vécus" (past lives).

Base system use d100 rolls under one of the character's Vécus (+/-difficulty) x10. A double (11, 22, etc.) is a critical (and the only reason why the game uses a d100 and not a d10...). On other values, the tens die indicate degree of success.

It's possible to add a Ka element to the Vécu, with a risk to expose the Nephilim's nature (I don't know how).

I'm not very keen on the "doubles as crit" system, especially since it requires you to multiply a score by 10 just for the sake of having doubles, and I hope Vécus are not too low on average. But otherwise, I like what I read, as it looks a lot like BRP variants I developped.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Mugen

[SDLeary]

6 hours ago, Kloster said:

Yes, but how many people remember Wildcards?

Those that read the books... how many of those are gamers is anyones guess. Potentially more in the future, if the Wild Cards TV series ever gets off the ground.

SDLeary

[g33k]

42 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

... if the Wild Cards TV series ever gets off the ground ...

It looks... pretty likely, at this point?

I mean, you have GRRM (GoT guy, most popular TV show in the world) who did a massive sprawling MCU-style superhero'verse (biggest movie franchise in the world), and you ... slow-track your option to produce that ??!?

I had previously thought Hollywood LIKED profitable shows...

[SDLeary]

8 minutes ago, g33k said:

It looks... pretty likely, at this point?

I mean, you have GRRM (GoT guy, most popular TV show in the world) who did a massive sprawling MCU-style superhero'verse (biggest movie franchise in the world), and you ... slow-track your option to produce that ??!?

I had previously thought Hollywood LIKED profitable shows...

Agreed... I'm thinking more of the possibility of the juggling of Hulu's overlords derailing things, or at least pushing them back.

SDLeary

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

It looks... pretty likely, at this point?

I mean, you have GRRM (GoT guy, most popular TV show in the world) who did a massive sprawling MCU-style superhero'verse (biggest movie franchise in the world), and you ... slow-track your option to produce that ??!?

I had previously thought Hollywood LIKED profitable shows...

I enjoyed reading Wild Cards. But the GoT sales by far exceed those of Wild Cards, and the super market is already taken by Disney and Warner. Having a big hit would be difficult and expensive. I grant you Martin's name would be a great help.

2 hours ago, SDLeary said:

I'm thinking more of the possibility of the juggling of Hulu's overlords derailing things, or at least pushing them back.

So true.

[MOB]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:19 PM, ColoradoCthulhu said:

I was checking out Chaosium's website and looked at the 'Other RPGs' section. Superworld hasn't been developed since the 1980s and Nephilim hasn't been touched since the 1990s. I know that Chaosium has a new science-fiction RPG based on the BRP system in the works (something like the now defunct Futureworld, perhaps), but these other BRP games might have close to zero players at this point.

Now we have Steve Perrin back on board as a creative consultant, we are looking at bringing SuperWorld back, at least as something like we did for RuneQuest Classic.

On 9/2/2019 at 7:29 PM, Mugen said:

But nowadays, you can put this on the cover:

"Superworld, the game that was used by GRR Martin, author of Game of Thrones, for a supers RPG game that inspired his WildCards series."

Indeed, George RR Martin's popular Wild Cards stories stemmed from what he describes as a "two-year-long role playing orgy that engulfed not only me, but the rest of my Albuquerque gaming circle as well." And the game they were playing was Chaosium's SuperWorld. More from GRR about his addiction to Superworld here.

On 8/30/2019 at 11:19 PM, ColoradoCthulhu said:

The costs of keeping the PDFs for the two games for sale on the website is minimal, so if there are just a handful of download purchases every year its probably worth it to leave them there. Thoughts?

Every time we shared Greg Stafford's story about punking Ken Rolston at a convention about his Bad Medicine for Dr Drugs, we'd get a spike of sales...

[Kloster]

"Bad Medicine for Dr Drugs" was not that bad.

Yeah. Ok, it was!!

[TrippyHippy]

I think Nephilim remains quite big in France, but the US version struggled a bit after the 1990s finished. 

[Ian Absentia]

The tide has ebbed and flowed several times in France, but as a result of a very successful crowdfunding campaign, it's ebbing again:
https://www.mnemos.com/collections/nephlim-legende/

In the US, it's fair to say that the game didn't make it out of the '90s in any official capacity.

!i!

[g33k]

23 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

 ... as a result of a very successful crowdfunding campaign, it's ebbing again ... 

I think you've grabbed the opposite meaning... ebbing is the outflow, the water dropping.  Usually, we like the "rising tide" that floats the boat, that brings flotsam & jetsam & other useful wrack ashore, etc.  Ebbing is generally taken to be a "lessening."

===

OTOH, there's some ambiguity:  the hardcore maritime types liked that outgoing tide, because it helped carry laden ships away from the dock, etc.