Critical damage and different types of damage

[Nicochan]

Hello there! 

I stumbled across some doubts regarding critical damage.

Starting from page 203, the rule book explains how impaling, slashing and crushing damage works when special successes are rolled:

• Impaling - double the weapon's damage and possibly impale with all the consequences (not always making the attacker happy).
• Slashing - double the weapon's damage and possibly make the target unconscious for 1d6 rounds.
• Crushing - add the maximum rollable bonus damage to the normal damage.

When looking for the Critical success, I only find it for Impaling weapons (maximize the roll of the special success) and at the end of the section it says that regardless of the weapon type, "A critical hit ignores the effects of armor or any other protection" (page 206). Ok, fine! I only have a minor doubt about this: 

a) Do Critical hits ignore spells protections too? Or only armor protection? Shields still block damage I think, since on page 200 it says that "Though the target’s armor does not subtract any damage from a critical hit, a successful parry from a weapon or shield blocks the amount of damage it normally would. However, a weapon that parries a critical hit takes twice the damage it would take normally. If the attacking weapon is a long-hafted weapon or an impaling weapon, the parrying weapon takes no damage. A shield that parries a critical hit receives twice as much damage as normal, and any unabsorbed damage strikes the parrying adventurer". 

b) And my major doubt: on page 206, "A critical hit [...] usually does maximum impaling, slashing, or crushing damage (depending on weapon type), as described above."  Does this mean that slashing and crushing weapons do maximize the damage like impaling weapons do? As I said, there's no trace of this in pages 203 to 206 though..so that's where my doubts come from.

 

Thanks a lot!

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

All crits ignore armour (though not magical protection) and do:

On 3/16/2020 at 11:58 AM, Scotty said:

On 3/16/2020 at 11:58 AM, Scotty said:

Critical impale (page 203) - twice the maximum damage plus roll damage bonus (plus magic damage bonus if any). Weapon is stuck in body.

Critical slash (page 204) - twice maximum damage plus roll damage bonus (plus magic damage bonus if any)

Critical crush (page 206) - Maximum weapon damage plus maximum damage bonus twice (plus magic damage bonus if any)

Edited April 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Agree it’s not an area that’s 100% clear in the core book. But thankfully we have official clarification now.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Nicochan]

Thanks a lot! Do you happen to know what's the interpretation of page 200:

"Parrying a Critical Hit Though the target’s armor does not subtract any damage from a critical hit, a successful parry from a weapon or shield blocks the amount of damage it normally would. However, a weapon that parries a critical hit takes twice the damage it would take normally. If the attacking weapon is a long-hafted weapon or an impaling weapon, the parrying weapon takes no damage. A shield that parries a critical hit receives twice as much damage as normal, and any unabsorbed damage strikes the parrying adventurer."

I underlined the sentence that casts a doubt: does this mean that impaling/long-hafted weapons don't do twice the damage to the parrying weapon when they strike a critical, and  they just do the regular damage? Or does it mean that impaling/long-hafted NEVER damage the parrying weapon/shield?

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Regarding parries and shield parries, the attack vs parry chart is the safe (correct) reference for checking attack & parry results.

edit : yes best to  ignore that text (it’s quite wonky) and rely on the attack vs parry chart which is correct.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

16 minutes ago, Nicochan said:

If the attacking weapon is a long-hafted weapon or an impaling weapon, the parrying weapon takes no damage. 

Guess this is just a common sense ruling when pitting weapon against weapon 

Edit: I’d say they never damage the weapon. You’re blocking with the wooden haft of the pole, which is not going to create sufficient impact to cause damage.
Perhaps If there’s a spear point or something hard you could rule that a freak impact causes damage?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

1 hour ago, Nicochan said:

However, a weapon that parries a critical hit takes twice the damage it would take normally

As confirmed by Jason Durall somewhere on the forum, this is just a clumsy way of saying it takes the full critical damage to its AP as per the attack/parry chart 

[Nicochan]

ok so I'll just stick to the table!

[PhilHibbs]

I think criticals do ignore magical armour - they always used to, but I don't have RQG to hand at the moment.

[Kloster]

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think criticals do ignore magical armour - they always used to, but I don't have RQG to hand at the moment.

I think he meant protection spells. You are right for magical armor: All armor is bypassed by criticals, as I have understood.

[Akhôrahil]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:54 PM, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Guess this is just a common sense ruling when pitting weapon against weapon 

Edit: I’d say they never damage the weapon. You’re blocking with the wooden haft of the pole, which is not going to create sufficient impact to cause damage.
Perhaps If there’s a spear point or something hard you could rule that a freak impact causes damage?

Personally, I think it’s silly. Someone slams a big honking poleaxe into your shield, that has every chance of doing damage, and certainly way more than a shortsword!

[Bill the barbarian]

On 4/4/2020 at 8:59 AM, Nicochan said:

ok so I'll just stick to the table!

When I stick to the table, I feel a bath is in order. 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

11 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Personally, I think it’s silly. Someone slams a big honking poleaxe into your shield, that has every chance of doing damage, and certainly way more than a shortsword!

I believe it’s just meant for when you’re parrying with a long hafted weapon. I guess it assumes that your parrying with the long pole bit of the weapon, and not the relatively small metal head of the weapon, which would be trickier to deflect with.

Still easy to ignore that ruling on a case by case basis if it seems at odds to what’s happening in the game. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Ryan Kent]

Check out the spear breaking parries in the fight between Achilles and Hector. Using imagination you can easily envision a situation where the spear damages on a parry, especially when a shield or boot comes into play.

[Runeblogger]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:34 PM, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

All crits ignore armour (though not magical protection) and do:

Critical hits also ignore magical protection. According to the Q&A:
 

Quote

Last sentence of first paragraph changed to “A critical hit ignores the effects of armor or any other protection, and usually does maximum impaling, slashing, or crushing damage (depending on weapon type), as described above.”

I believe "any other protection" also includes magical protection. Otherwise, I wonder what kind of protection is meant by "any other protection" aside from armor.  🙂

However, if you feel that is too much damage, you can always rule criticals do not bypass magical protection.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

On 9/26/2021 at 10:36 AM, Runeblogger said:

Critical hits also ignore magical protection. According to the Q&A:
 

I believe "any other protection" also includes magical protection. Otherwise, I wonder what kind of protection is meant by "any other protection" aside from armor.  🙂

However, if you feel that is too much damage, you can always rule criticals do not bypass magical protection.

Guessing it’s meant for physical protection, which could include enhanced/enchanted magical armour, or other obstacles in the way.

Other magic defence I’d play as not by-passable with physical means no matter how well placed the blow. 
 

Is that a fair call @Scotty? 
 

[PhilHibbs]

Criticals have always bypassed anything that functioned as armour points. They traditionally did not bypass "resistance roll" protection like the RQ3 sorcery spell Damage Resistance.

I just noticed the other day in the Truestone writeup that if you use it as a missile weapon, it bypasses magical armour such as Protection or Shield. That's quite an expensive way to use Truestone though, make sure you can find it afterwards!

[Scotty]

6 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Guessing it’s meant for physical protection, which could include enhanced/enchanted magical armour, or other obstacles in the way.

It does say clearly on page 206 (second printing)

Quote

Critical Hit

A critical hit ignores the effects of armor or any other protection and usually does maximum impaling, slashing, or crushing damage (depending on weapon type), as described above.

The only exception would be if a spell says specifically that it is not subject to the effects of a critical hit (but there are currently none).

6 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Other magic defence I’d play as not by-passable with physical means no matter how well placed the blow.

Is that a fair call @Scotty? 

As usual that's up to the GM, however even with magic armor, it's still doing maximum impaling, slashing, or crushing damage, which in most cases will result in death if head or abdomen or a serious injury for everything else (unless a weedy weapon).