Sex of Heortlings

[Kloster]

RQG says p81 that Heortling people recognize 4 sexes (female, male, neuter and hermaphrodite).

I have 2 questions to submit:

- Heortlings are named by their ascendancy (son of ... or daughter of ...). What would neuter and hermaphrodite heortlings be called?

- Would sex-restricted cults accept an hermaphrodite? I think that for serial hermaphrodites (those who alternate between male and female), the answer will be yes when the are in the right configuration, but what would occur when they change? Are they expelled, or merely suspended of their status, or can they continue their (cult) business as usual? And for those who have both sex simultaneously, can they, for example, be Ernalda priestess (if of course they have given birth to a child) or Babeester Gor?

[soltakss]

8 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Heortlings are named by their ascendancy (son of ... or daughter of ...). What would neuter and hermaphrodite heortlings be called?

For the neuter sex, maybe Child of or Kid of, so Klosterchild or Klosterkid instead of Klosterson or Klosterdaughter.

For hermaphrodites, perhaps as above or perhaps they identify with one sex more often, in which case that sex. So, Klosterchild, Klosterkid, Klosterson or Klosterdaughter as required. 

11 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Would sex-restricted cults accept an hermaphrodite?

It depends, but probably yes.

12 minutes ago, Kloster said:

And for those who have both sex simultaneously, can they, for example, be Ernalda priestess (if of course they have given birth to a child) or Babeester Gor?

I would say yes, they are both male and female, so can join restricted cults.

12 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I think that for serial hermaphrodites (those who alternate between male and female), the answer will be yes when the are in the right configuration, but what would occur when they change? Are they expelled, or merely suspended of their status, or can they continue their (cult) business as usual?

They might be expelled, or they might try to hide their status. 

All of the above are probably best handled through roleplaying rather than having strict answers. 

[Kloster]

Thanks. I like your answers. Very helpful.

[Sir_Godspeed]

I'm assuming that patro-/matronyms are based not on sex (ie., for lack of a better way to put it, genitalia) but on gender, so a neuter or hermaphrodite person can still identify as a man or woman. 

Conversely, of course, someone biologically male can identify as any of the given genders. Hence biologically male nandans identifying as women (a culturally specific kind of woman) and joining Ernalda gender-restricted ranks. 

This is mostly based on what I seem to recall about Orlanthi viewing sex and gender as separate concepts, though I might be wrong.

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This is mostly based on what I seem to recall about Orlanthi viewing sex and gender as separate concepts, though I might be wrong.

I agree with this. But if this (partly) answer the question about naming, it opens another one with the helerings.

And I believe the cults restrictions are about sex, not gender.

[g33k]

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

 ... For hermaphrodites, perhaps as above or perhaps they identify with one sex more often, in which case that sex. So, Klosterchild, Klosterkid, Klosterson or Klosterdaughter as required...

Or even changing names, as moderns sometimes do when GenderQuesting.  😉 

 

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

 ... All of the above are probably best handled through roleplaying rather than having strict answers. 

Very  (VERY!)  strongly agree with this!

 

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, g33k said:

Or even changing names, as moderns sometimes do when GenderQuesting.  😉 

 

Very  (VERY!)  strongly agree with this!

 

Agree fully. Also keep in mind that we don't speak Heortling. I don't know if it has grammatical gender (I presume it does, but don't know), whether it is grammatical genders are male, female, neuter - or something else like male, female, neuter, both, etc. I don't know enough about the Bugis language to be able to draw on that as a source of ideas. It could well be that the Heortlings use "Child of" or "scion of" rather than son or daughter of. But that's how I have chosen to translate it in English.

[Kloster]

58 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Agree fully. Also keep in mind that we don't speak Heortling. I don't know if it has grammatical gender (I presume it does, but don't know), whether it is grammatical genders are male, female, neuter - or something else like male, female, neuter, both, etc. I don't know enough about the Bugis language to be able to draw on that as a source of ideas. It could well be that the Heortlings use "Child of" or "scion of" rather than son or daughter of. But that's how I have chosen to translate it in English.

Thanks for your answer, Jeff. Fortunately for me, I need to write it in a more known language: french. My son settled for filsfille, which in english would be sondaughter (I prefer the sound of daughterson).

[Minlister]

Maybe you could settle for a reference to blood "Lothgar du sang de Kangbran". Eventuellement en particule attachée: I used in another game -blatt, for exemple Lothgar Kangbranblatt", but "Kangbranblood" ou "Sang-Kangbran" also has a nice ring to it. Or use only "de" as the Italians did at the end of the 19th cent. "Lothgar de Kangbgran"

[Kloster]

55 minutes ago, Minlister said:

Maybe you could settle for a reference to blood "Lothgar du sang de Kangbran". Eventuellement en particule attachée: I used in another game -blatt, for exemple Lothgar Kangbranblatt", but "Kangbranblood" ou "Sang-Kangbran" also has a nice ring to it. Or use only "de" as the Italians did at the end of the 19th cent. "Lothgar de Kangbgran"

Thanks. Good ideas. I like them.

[Rob Darvall]

Or adapt the archaic Scots "Ilk". So Lothar ilk Kangbran, or possibly Lothar Kangbrans Ilk/ Kangbranilk.

[davecake]

On 5/6/2020 at 10:12 PM, soltakss said:

For the neuter sex, maybe Child of or Kid of, so Klosterchild or Klosterkid instead of Klosterson or Klosterdaughter.

Thats how it works for modern Icelanders who choose avoid a gendered patronymic. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

As for many, there are 2 parents,

what name do you use ? the father ? the mother ? depending on social position, fame , clan tradition, your own gender ?

 

[Kloster]

32 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

As for many, there are 2 parents,

what name do you use ? the father ? the mother ? depending on social position, fame , clan tradition, your own gender ?

 

As far as I have understood, in matrilineal clans, the name of the mother, in patrilineal clans, the name of the father, and in the other clans, the name of the parent with the higher status.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Kloster
typing mistake

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

As for many, there are 2 parents,

what name do you use ? the father ? the mother ? depending on social position, fame , clan tradition, your own gender ?

 

The parent in your birth clan, I suppose. One of your parents will have moved into the clan of the other. Thus we have Yoristina Enerasdottir and Saronil Sartarson.

[Sir_Godspeed]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:48 PM, Rob Darvall said:

Or adapt the archaic Scots "Ilk". So Lothar ilk Kangbran, or possibly Lothar Kangbrans Ilk/ Kangbranilk.

-kin works too, I suppose, though it's obviously more vague. 

I suppose "scion" could work. "Argabscion", etc. Though it's a mouthful and less elegant. I'm also not a huge fun of stuffing latinate words into Orlanthi names, but I have a bias there. 

EDIT: Scots/Northern English -bairn might work too (cognate to Nor/Swe "barn" and Ice/Dan "börn")

Edited May 10, 2020 by Sir_Godspeed

[Rob Darvall]

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

-kin works too, I suppose, though it's obviously more vague. 

I suppose "scion" could work. "Argabscion", etc. Though it's a mouthful and less elegant. I'm also not a huge fun of stuffing latinate words into Orlanthi names, but I have a bias there. 

EDIT: Scots/Northern English -bairn might work too (cognate to Nor/Swe "barn" and Ice/Dan "börn")

And so we get representations of regional dialects. That I can actually pronounce at the table.

Works for me.