Orlanth in Umathela

[Manu]

Hi,

I'm still not totally confident of how to see (and play) the Orlanthi in Umathela.

When you look at most Orlanth Myth, it is a fight against Yelm or Chaos.

And none of them are strongly prensent un Umathela. Chaos is more on Fonrit side (quite far for most Orlanthi in this area) and there is not Broos roaming in this area. The only solar good quite common is Yelmalio of the Aldryami.

Then how young Orlanthi can learn to be Orlanth if the 2 main adversaries of their god are... not existant.

Or the myths are totally different in the South than in the north (but the Orlanthi were imported around a 1000 years ago, therefore not that long ago to have totally different myths.

Any idea from the Pamaltela Gourous here ;)

[metcalph]

36 minutes ago, Manu said:

When you look at most Orlanth Myth, it is a fight against Yelm or Chaos.

And none of them are strongly prensent un Umathela. Chaos is more on Fonrit side (quite far for most Orlanthi in this area) and there is not Broos roaming in this area. The only solar good quite common is Yelmalio of the Aldryami.

Then how young Orlanthi can learn to be Orlanth if the 2 main adversaries of their god are... not existant.

Or the myths are totally different in the South than in the north (but the Orlanthi were imported around a 1000 years ago, therefore not that long ago to have totally different myths.

Any idea from the Pamaltela Gourous here

There are the Artmali (Moon), the Trolls (Darkness), Malkioni (Sorcery), Malasp (Sea), Vadeli (Sorcery again) and the Cult of Silence.  Mythically Orlanth (or Baraku) would have fought has fought against Artmal, the Trolls, the Dwarves, the Vadeli, the Fonritans, Vovisibor etc.  So while there is very little in the way of divine enemies that a Sartarite would recognize, there are plenty of enemies who would give the local Orlanthi a hard time.

[John Biles]

The number one enemy of Orlanthi is usually other Orlanthi.

Plus, I have to imagine the Orlanthi of Umathela see Fonrit as Public Enemy Number One.  A country which exalts slavery for everyone is going to rub them the wrong way.

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

53 minutes ago, John Biles said:

The number one enemy of Orlanthi is usually other Orlanthi.

Plus, I have to imagine the Orlanthi of Umathela see Fonrit as Public Enemy Number One.  A country which exalts slavery for everyone is going to rub them the wrong way.

 

Most Orlanthi practice slavery, so while they probably dislike Fonrit for the "industriaized" slavery that potentially victimizes themselves, I don't necessarily see that as an issue in itself. The underlying Chaos stuff might though, if they know about it. 

As others have mentioned though, Umathela is quite big. Western Umathelans probably have very little to do with Fonritans.

[Leingod]

1 hour ago, John Biles said:

The number one enemy of Orlanthi is usually other Orlanthi.

I'm not so sure about that. Your most common enemy isn't the same thing as your #1 enemy. Usually conflict between Orlanthi is just low-level, small-scale stuff. Cattle raids and the like, with lots of special rules and customs to keep things from heating up too much that every Orlanthi (in the area, at least) knows and can generally be counted on to adhere to for practical reasons. It's usually with those damn foreigners who don't know the rules for this sort of thing (and who these rules thus don't apply to, either) that things can get really bad.

51 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Most Orlanthi practice slavery, so while they probably dislike Fonrit for the "industriaized" slavery that potentially victimizes themselves, I don't necessarily see that as an issue in itself. The underlying Chaos stuff might though, if they know about it. 

As others have mentioned though, Umathela is quite big. Western Umathelans probably have very little to do with Fonritans.

Well, to any Orlanthi who actually cares enough to find out what the Fonritan arguments about that are it would be utterly repellent as an idea, since that notion of "everyone is a slave, everything is slavery" is completely antithetical to the notion that Orlanth is Freedom.

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Most Orlanthi practice slavery, so while they probably dislike Fonrit for the "industriaized" slavery that potentially victimizes themselves, I don't necessarily see that as an issue in itself. The underlying Chaos stuff might though, if they know about it. 

As others have mentioned though, Umathela is quite big. Western Umathelans probably have very little to do with Fonritans.

Fonrit enslaves everyone, which is repugnant to the Orlanthi, as the Orlanthi who keep thralls justify their keeping thralls while pretending to worship a god of freedom by saying 'they were weak and had it coming'.  But in Fonrit, even the strong are slaves.

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

Yeah, but Fonritans aren't Orlanthi, so why should they care? Glorantha isn't a world of universalistic morals, the Umathelans aren't going to care until the Fonritans move into their turf in some capacity. Which they did, iirc, with the whole war between Umathelans+Aldryami versus Fonritans, unless I misremember.

[metcalph]

Umathela's a big place.  While Cerngorth and Kormarkan would certainly be worried about Afadjann, for other places worring about Fonrit is like the Sartarites worrying about Ramalia.  Likewise the Season Wars were over 150 years ago and is remote from modern Umathelans as Sheng Seleris is.

THREATS:

CERNGOTH:  Fonritans, Malasp, Vadeli

EDIRUSS:  Fonritans, Vadeli, Artmali

HUAMAZ:  Vadeli, Silence

KALLIMA:  Trolls, Vadeli

KORMAKAN:  Fonritans, Artmali

ORIK:  Vadeli

SULAYZ: Mostali, Vadeli, Malasp

THREAT DESCRIPTIONS:

ARTMALI:  Fonritan oppression and renewed Artmali assertiveness has led to many exile communities along the Umathelan border.  They mainly inhabit the poor lands that the residents do not want.  While largely focussed on the Fonritans, their studies in their traditional mysteries has awakened their dreams of a long-forgotten empire.  Although originally friendly, clashes with the locals are becoming more common.

FONRITANS:  Traditional enemies.  

MALASP:  Generally want surfacers to make things they cannot and give it to them for free.  Currently too weak to seize the ports by force.  Acquiring naval power by harassing lone ships, offering letters of margue (or more precisely tokens).  Blame any  that any violence on the Yssabau, Wolf Pirates and the Waertagi of which only they can defend the humans against.

MOSTALI:  Are probably sending out survey teams to map thjeir future conquests and the extent of any elvish infestation.   

SILENCE: Strange wierdos who don't like other people talking.   

TROLLS: The nearest troll settlement to human lands is the Hungry Hills and the Snag Mountains.  The threat from these places is mostly wild trollkin and savage mountain trolls but organized troll warbands from the Tarmo will undoubtedly chose to raid the highlands of Kallima.

VADELI:  They're here, they're evil and they were lording it over your fathers over 30 years ago.  Not even they can realistically hope to seize power again as their original Empire was built on lies and fraud.  But they still practice nefarious sorceries for unknown powers and are protected from reprisals by the rulers.  Their spells seem to be contacting mysterious cities in the Storm Age where they hope to learn Sacrets Man was not Meant to Know.  

[radmonger]

Fonritans aren't Orlanthi, but then neither are Lunars.

Any clans or tribes directly threatened by Fonritians, or who just want to raid them, are absolutely going to make the claim that Ompalam is chaotic. Then invoke 'I fought We Won' as a reason to ally with them and help.

Any groups that want friendly relations with Fonritians, or to do anything other than send all their fighters hundreds of miles away to help some local chieftain get rich will be arguing the opposite.

[davecake]

On 9/8/2020 at 5:09 PM, Manu said:

The only solar good quite common is Yelmalio of the Aldryami.

The Aldryami of the Jungle worship Yelm, particularly the Errinoru dynasty - but that doesn't necessarily help much, as the Aldryami of Umathela have not that much in common with the Alryami on the other side of the continent. 

[Manu]

Thanks for all the input. But I was referring more on a Mythical level. Orlanth never fought the Vadeli, the Malasp (oh... maybe), ... At least from all the myth I have heard of (OK, mostly from the Dragon Pass area) are not easy to use in Umathela. And when you are a 15 years old Orlanthi, you do your first 'small' heroquest to follow the path of Orlanth. For most of them, no broos, no Uz (too far), ...

[jajagappa]

41 minutes ago, Manu said:

But I was referring more on a Mythical level. Orlanth never fought the Vadeli, the Malasp (oh... maybe), ... At least from all the myth I have heard of (OK, mostly from the Dragon Pass area) are not easy to use in Umathela.

At the mythic level, yes, Orlanth fought them.  Consider some of the core myths from the Guide (p.684+)

Early Storm Age:  Huge floods drown much of the earth and extinguish many of the fires on the ground. The Age ends when the Sky turns blue, the ultimate triumph of the Waters over the Sky. Below, Orlanth and the other storm gods defeat the Waters and establish the dominance of the Air.

Any Storm vs. Sea myth can be totally transplanted to Umathela.  The Trembling Shore, etc. can all occur here as Orlanth drives back the Seas. (Just change the names: instead of Sshorg/Aroka, its Churkenos/Blue Dragon.)

Middle Storm Age: This Age begins with the conquest of the Sea Gods by Orlanth and the Air Gods. The Air Gods dominate the Surface World but the trolls and their dark gods emerge from
the Underworld. The Gods War accelerates, with Death being used by many gods. The Age ends with the dominance of most of Genertela by the Vingkotlings.

You might drop the Vingkotling myths (or just have remembered stories of wars with the Fire Empire, etc. far to the north).  But mythic struggles with Darkness grow.

As for Vadeli: The Vadeli Empire of Chir unified the many Vadeli colonies of Pamaltela, collectively called the “skinners”. Chir paid tribute to the Mostali, especially in the form of slaves captured from the Artmali and Agimori.... The Vadeli ruled the lands of the former Viymorni people. They had a way of enslaving spirits in the material world. The Vadeli were allied with the Mostali and raided far and wide against everyone, especially the Original People of Malkion.

The Plundering of Aron becomes the story of how Orlanth and the Thunder Brothers overcame Seravus the Enchanter (clearly a Vadeli who enslaved the beasts and spirits).  

And any story about struggles off to the West vs. the sorcerers, wizards, etc. becomes a myth about the battles with the Vadeli (and the dwarfs).

Late Storm Age (Lesser Darkness): This Age begins with the invasion of Valind. His Glacier grows to cover much of the world in ice. The Gods War rages and destroys, slaying many gods, spirits, and lesser beings. One by one, the benign gods depart the world, replaced by such evil gods as Valind, Daga, Mallia, and Ragnaglar.

The world gets worse.  Vadeli start to summon evil gods to aid them (e.g. Seseine, Ompalam, etc. leading to Vovisibor).  Ultimately, Orlanth departs for the west to restore the Sun - leaves Pamalt in charge of the home.  Probably myths about the Orlanthi helping to tip the Sky Bowl to create the Firefall and defeat Vovisibor - this may be part of the local IFWW.