rapier and swordstick

[French Desperate WindChild]

I have few questions about windchild weapons

 

- Is a swordstick the same that described in wikipedia or is it something else ? and what ?

- When I visited Scotland, I saw some medieval rapiers. What I understood was rapier were stronger and more efficient than earlier swords. Was it an error  (I m not specialist at all) ? Or Rapier in glorantha is different than scotish rapier ?

[g33k]

Google "Bronze Age Rapier" for a good idea.  I believe these are what is meant by "Rapier" in Glorantha -- and it probably isn't much like you're envisioning.

If the "swordstick" is the thing also called a "cane sword" (that is, a very-thin blade hidden inside a cane, which thus acts as a sheath) then...  I don't think that's a thing, in Glorantha.  AFAIK, such long thin blades exist nowhere in the world of Glorantha.  I'm entirely willing to be mistaken on this -- and Arachne Solara knows, I've got loads of Glorantha still to learn! -- but that's my current understanding.

 

[Borygon]

Swordstaff of windchildren is just a sword on a stick, its a kind of polearm, like a glaive of sorts.

[g33k]

4 minutes ago, Borygon said:

Swordstaff of windchildren is just a sword on a stick, its a kind of polearm, like a glaive of sorts.

That makes very good sense, to me.  Flying creatures are well-suited to sweeping slashing styles.

I presume there's enough of a stabby point that a dive/charge is also available.

[Ian Absentia]

12 minutes ago, Borygon said:

Swordstaff of windchildren is just a sword on a stick, its a kind of polearm, like a glaive of sorts.

I always imagined a naginata, but six of one, half dozen the other.

!i!

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Borygon said:

Swordstaff of windchildren is just a sword on a stick, its a kind of polearm, like a glaive of sorts.

9 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

I always imagined a naginata, but six of one, half dozen the other.

good that was my idea before I googled it

 

10 hours ago, g33k said:

Google "Bronze Age Rapier"

yes... of course, i didn't.. now I understand  why that's only for esrolian fashionista

 

thanks a lot !

another question, should swordstick be included in which category  ? (sword ? spear ? pole ? none ? )

[davecake]

10 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Is a swordstick the same that described in wikipedia or is it something else ? and what ?

Conforming what others have said - it is more or less a sword on a stick, a polearm  - in the RQ3 Glorantha Bestiary, which I think is when a swordstick was first mentioned, it was described as being the wind child name for a naginata, but glaive will do just as well, I suspect the details of the sword follow local custom (and quite possibly the wind children trade for them, it seems unlikely they are great metalworkers). 

[Brian McReynolds]

Even though a Glaive's best suited for Slashing attacks, it still has a 'stabby end'. So it's capable of Impaling your opponent, which could be a useful tactic if diving from on-high with a mind to driving them off their feet. 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Brian McReynolds said:

Even though a Glaive's best suited for Slashing attacks, it still has a 'stabby end'. So it's capable of Impaling your opponent, which could be a useful tactic if diving from on-high with a mind to driving them off their feet. 

Depends on the glaive in question.

Some (most) have stabby ends, some (a few) don't (particularly Asian styles, which often hook backwards at the tip, presumably to unseat horsemen, reach behind shieldwalls, etc).

Edited September 16, 2020 by g33k

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Some (most) have stabby ends, some (a few) don't (particularly Asian styles, which often hook backwards at the tip, presumably to unseat horsemen, reach behind shieldwalls, etc).

A grabby function is probably not too bad to have for a race of flying people.

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

A grabby function is probably not too bad to have for a race of flying people.

If there's a really rigid pole, it would allow a complete 180 (without magic) faster than wingpower alone could manage!

[Ian Absentia]

15 hours ago, g33k said:

Some (most) have stabby ends, some (a few) don't (particularly Asian styles, which often hook backwards at the tip, presumably to unseat horsemen, reach behind shieldwalls, etc).

...but mostly for the slash-and-draw effect, a vestige from early development as cavalry weapons.  A variety of utility, though.

13 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

A grabby function is probably not too bad to have for a race of flying people.

Check out the sasumata, or man-catchers.  I have to wonder why Windchildren would carry such things about, though.

!i!

[soltakss]

14 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Check out the sasumata, or man-catchers.  I have to wonder why Windchildren would carry such things about, though.

To catch men?

[Sir_Godspeed]

If someone aims a javelin or bow at you from below it might be useful, or maybe if you just wanna yoink some stuff from them. Who knows.

[Joerg]

8 minutes ago, soltakss said:

To catch men?

and then be weighted down to the ground? If they want to pick up somebody or something roughly man-sized, they will quite likely send in one of their sylphs to do so.

From the earliest description of the Wind Children I know about, the wind children keep sylphs about a bit like pets. "Personal winds" or whatever, probably quite permanently manifest. Possibly with at least animal cunning, too.

[Ian Absentia]

36 minutes ago, soltakss said:

To catch men?

Yer slayin' me!

24 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

If someone aims a javelin or bow at you from below it might be useful, or maybe if you just wanna yoink some stuff from them. Who knows.

Maybe hooks or barbs on the backside of the swordstick blade?  I'm blanking on the home defense martial art where samurai wives would train in using a pruning hook to disarm -- sometimes quite literally -- intruders.  That could be nifty.

In general, though, I assume that Wind Children adopt the tactics of peltasts and light cavalry -- don't stay in one place and get whomped by heavier arms.

!i!

[soltakss]

47 minutes ago, Joerg said:

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

To catch men?

and then be weighted down to the ground? If they want to pick up somebody or something roughly man-sized, they will quite likely send in one of their sylphs to do so.

I mentioned catching men, not what to do with them afterwards. One problem at a time.

 

15 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Maybe hooks or barbs on the backside of the swordstick blade?  I'm blanking on the home defense martial art where samurai wives would train in using a pruning hook to disarm -- sometimes quite literally -- intruders.  That could be nifty.

You fly in with a hook on a stick, drag someone off a horse and throw them to the ground, pull someone up into the air and drop them, drag someone over the edge of a cliff and drop them, grab a horse's leg and pull it over. Lot of ways to use a swordstick in combat.

[Joerg]

27 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I mentioned catching men, not what to do with them afterwards. One problem at a time.

Except that the time between "got him!" and "splat!" isn't that long. At least objectively. Subjectively the approach of the ground may take quite a while before impact.

27 minutes ago, soltakss said:

You fly in with a hook on a stick, drag someone off a horse and throw them to the ground, pull someone up into the air and drop them, drag someone over the edge of a cliff and drop them, grab a horse's leg and pull it over. Lot of ways to use a swordstick in combat.

You don't want to entangle a weapon that you might wish to use in your next swoop.

A grappling hook on a line might be as effective. Or a net.

[Ian Absentia]

14 minutes ago, Joerg said:

You don't want to entangle a weapon that you might wish to use in your next swoop.

A grappling hook on a line might be as effective. Or a net.

The primary limitation that seems to get overlooked when dealing with the Wind Children is that the action of their wings occupies a huge volume of space (assuming they need to pay at least some lip service to physics and flap their wings to fly -- God, I'm growing weary of this "cuz magic" Rune-affiliation hand-waving).  Swinging a sword?  Spinning a sling?  Unh-uh.  Bows, problematic.  Javelins?  See swords.  Poignards and naginatas make great sense, as do skillfully managed grapples and nets.

Keep those wings free.

!i!

[g33k]

I'm envisioning windchildren-vs-landlubber combat...  Humans, mostly (of course) but all the races, really.

Agreed that  lifting to a dangerous height, then dropping  is likely a tactic they delegate to their sylphs, rather than personally pursue (mayber their Rune Levels do it, via magic-boosted flight?).  But just unbalancing (mounted fighters, climbers, etc) seems really promising!

Also, it looks to me like there's a huge amount of potential tactics/methods/etc unexplored in the conventional RW combat examples RQ-grognards like to cite, because we don't have the RW examples.  Human/etc sorts fighting over their own heads would seem to have a bunch of considerations...

ALSO -- windchildren tactics.  Missile weapons -- arrows, darts, etc.  From overhead, they effectively have unlimited range (shooting straight down).  Massed bowfire from half a kilometer away?  Easy-peasy!!!  Fold their wings tight (like a stooping raptor), draw & release bow in a few seconds, and then lower bow, open wings, & swoop out of the dive, never coming in range of return-fire (which would have to be straight upwards).  Ordinary hand-thrown darts, too -- no bow needed, but half a km (or more, if desired!  Full km?  even more?  yep, and yep-yep!) to accelerate downward... BAM!

Edited September 16, 2020 by g33k

[g33k]

11 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

... "cuz magic" Rune-affiliation hand-waving) ...

Only 'til their Rune-Pool is depleted!!!  😉

Or rewards of heroquesting... But at that level, it's a bit less of a ubiquitous handwave, and more of a "jeepers, grampa, where can I get some o' those kewl rune powerz!?!"

[Ian Absentia]

38 minutes ago, g33k said:

Fold their wings tight (like a stooping raptor)... [snip] ...open wings, & swoop out of the dive, never coming in range of return-fire (which would have to be straight upwards).  Ordinary hand-thrown darts, too -- no bow needed, but half a km (or more, if desired!  Full km?  even more?  yep, and yep-yep!) to accelerate downward... BAM!

You have my attention.  I'm still iffy on bows while airborne, but, hey, if a horse archer can manage it....  You have me re-thinking javelins, if used like a large dart in a tucked dive.  The real point, though, is that Wind Children generally hold the advantage of elevation and mobility against grounded opponents.  Spock, re: Khan -- "He's intelligent, but not experienced.  His pattern indicates 2-dimensional thinking."

Hrm.  Next up: Aquatic combat among the Triolini.  Dog-fighting with spears and nets!

!i!

[French Desperate WindChild]

no bow, just sling as described in bestiary. probably stone resists better than arrow when winds are strong.

 

but I think windchild's fights are mainly against flying creatures (hipogriff, harpies, birds ...) and not battle, just few people engaged

except lunars (and they have probably others priorities, maybe a slave merchant, or a solar looking for notoriety, or something like that) I don't see who on ground would be interested to fight them where they are located. They are friend with beastmen, sacred (or about) by orlanthis ....

[Rob Darvall]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

ALSO -- windchildren tactics.  Missile weapons -- arrows, darts, etc.  From overhead, they effectively have unlimited range (shooting straight down).  Massed bowfire from half a kilometer away?  Easy-peasy!!!  Fold their wings tight (like a stooping raptor), draw & release bow in a few seconds, and then lower bow, open wings, & swoop out of the dive, never coming in range of return-fire (which would have to be straight upwards).  Ordinary hand-thrown darts, too -- no bow needed, but half a km (or more, if desired!  Full km?  even more?  yep, and yep-yep!) to accelerate downward... BAM!

 

Darts. WW1 dart bombing tactics might be more appropriate.

[SDLeary]

4 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

 

Darts. WW1 dart bombing tactics might be more appropriate.

Or level bombing... streaking over the target just out of weapon range and releasing a javelin at speed.

SDLeary