Backford Aeolian Campaign

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

the 2nd clip.

That's the Skyreach Mountains (specifically Arrowmound) in the 2nd clip, not Kero Fin. (If you check the map in the Guide, p.245, you'll see that the line leading towards the mountain in the Building Wall.)  You cut off Kero Fin which is the shadowy mountain at the far right of the original picture.

 

[Erol of Backford]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:29 PM, jajagappa said:

If you check the map in the Guide, p.245, you'll see that the line leading towards the mountain in the Building Wall.

I see it and was wondering why one was so needle like but not the other, the scale of these features, the mountains, the 3000' Shadow Plateau, etc, make Glorantha look so different than what we pictured years ago, much more abrupt/severe.

Are there any illustrations of the Stormwalk Mountains?

Edited March 10, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

58 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are there any illustrations of the Stormwalk Mountains?

Guide p.441 has Stormwalk from the Prax side. (Tallest mountain, center of the background mountain range)

The spiral trail wraps around 7 times from the base (very long on the lowest spirals, very tight at the top). 

 

[Erol of Backford]

Funny, I was looking at that image on line yesterday. I've seen it in the GtG but didn't realize/see that it was Stormwalk in the background. Thanks again Jaja.

[Erol of Backford]

Working on Backford colors.

I know heardlry isn't a thing in Glorantha per say or so I thought it was stated as such but I am sure there would be banners, standards, flags, etc. of some sort as we've seen standards at least...

I take colors partly from Sun County, blue and gold (we like that) and partly from Mr. B's TT 12 non canon article. Not sure what name to put on the coat of arms but will figure something. One of the PC's is the daughter of the lord, count, eorl, earl, city rex etc. and it will likely be that the mother is of the Caprati trader prince family... She is likely a rebel, a Vingan but not sure yet.

We have some miniatures painted that were for us the Rabbit Hat militia a little bule and gold with white tunics over, I think, need to dig them out of the boxes. That was after Rabbit Hat was cleaned up in one campaign back in the mid 90's. It will be fun to use them again.

 

[Erol of Backford]

As with the recent installation of a barracks complex at Durengard, the PC's are asked to assist with the construction of a new shrine and barracks dedicated to St. Ehilm to also be stationed in Backford for a double file of troops that are .

It's decided that the 3 storied tower with gilded dome top with lookout parapet will be adjoined by a two story barrick, dormitory and cafeteria. There is a seperate room for the file and half file leader as well as a suite for an acolyte. Provisions for females in a separate section of the dormitory are being discussed. At the opposite side is a drill hall above a stable and a privy. Cross ventilation is a big concern but as the structure as the town is on a slightly elevated mesa in the Syphon River Valley the winds of St. Worlanth should be enough to keep the stench to a livable level?

How much will this structure cost with furnishings?

Who will be the labor force that builds it?

How will the shrine be activated, what will the ceremony be?

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 3/15/2023 at 8:35 PM, Erol of Backford said:

As with the recent installation of a barracks complex at Durengard, the PC's are asked to assist with the construction of a new shrine and barracks dedicated to St. Ehilm to also be stationed in Backford for a double file of troops that are .

It's decided that the 3 storied tower with gilded dome top with lookout parapet will be adjoined by a two story barrick, dormitory and cafeteria. There is a seperate room for the file and half file leader as well as a suite for an acolyte. Provisions for females in a separate section of the dormitory are being discussed. At the opposite side is a drill hall above a stable and a privy. Cross ventilation is a big concern but as the structure as the town is on a slightly elevated mesa in the Syphon River Valley the winds of St. Worlanth should be enough to keep the stench to a livable level?

How much will this structure cost with furnishings?

Who will be the labor force that builds it?

How will the shrine be activated, what will the ceremony be?

The Weapons and Equipment guide doesn't give you a price quote for "2 story barracks with tower and gilded dome"  but if you use it for precedents and comparables  you can make a logical estimate.

I am not sure how many troops are in a 'file" but if it's like ancient and post-medieval pike files it's about 16 folks, maybe less depending on which armies..  So my estimate is 32 for a double file.  You, the GM, will know.

OK, the barracks:  A comparable is "villa", accommodating 15, for 200 Wheels. (page 105).  See villa picture p.104, doesn't it look comparable?

Another comparable is "large home" accommodating 12, for 40-100 Wheels.

Your description as 'barracks" indicates fewer square meters per person than a villa.  At least when i was responsible for supervising  barracks it was that way.  But the shrine, tower, stable and 2nd story drill hall add that area back, so I'd go for the villa.

I don't understand the need for the 2nd story drill hall.  A drill field will work better for training field troops.  And if they really are pikemen or spearmen  then you can't drill with a low ceiling.  Ask me how I know!  I put a bayonet hole in my mother in law's ceiling, going to right shoulder shift arms with a musket.

The tower?  W&E Page 108, fortification table: Tower, stone:50W.  But the dome gilding will be extra.  You can assume what you want for the dome, it can be timber and not stone - but the gilding... Page 33 says a package of five sheets of gold leaf has a standard price of 20L and the sheet is 10cm square.  So gilding will cost 400L per square meter plus the wages of a craftsman to apply it,. There are no productivity standards but a master  (p.52 examples at least show "skilled") with a rare skill might cost 1L a day for a short term hire in my opinion, and I'd arbitrarily decide applying gold leaf will happen at a rate of one square meter a week. 

That's a total of 407L per square meter.  

If we arbitrarily say the dome on the watch tower is only 2m in diameter (1 m radius), and the dome is half of a sphere - then its area is 0.5x 4 pi R squared, so 0.5x4x3.1416 x 1 = 6.292 square meters  area

x 407L  = a dome gilding cost of 2561 lunars.

Therefore:

Barracks 200 Wheels, tower 50 Wheels, gilding 2561L, total 7561L.

The work force will be 'local", and Backford will have builders.

Furnishings?  Similar to the cost of furnishing a large house, The page 110 example is for exotic furniture but this won't be exotic, you want sturdy.  Say 20L?

i have only a vague idea what the shrine activation ceremony will be.  Officially per RQiG p 284 you need at least 75 lay members and initiates worshiping there regularly, and your garrison is not that big.  So either you have local co-religionists, or it's a "site'.  IMHO you may be looking for a holy relic to beef that up, and hand wave it if you don't like my opinion.  I suspect the ceremony is conducted on a holy day by an out of town high priest, perhaps using magic that is not in our combat-oriented lists. You need a sponsor pledged to maintain the shrine but that is the acolyte.  There is a long boring set of sermons and speeches and prayers, everyone Worships and sacs 1 or 2 MPs each.  Everyone then breaks for a celebratory meal.  Open bar. Late reveille the next morning.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
vague ides...

[Erol of Backford]

I love the detail, it's about a 1/4 the estimate (cost) I was thinking but it depends on the loot any GM gives out as to supply and demand.

In this Glorantha there are a good number of Elmali's on the Plateau, St. Ehlmal maybe?

50 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So my estimate is 32 for a double file. 

Thinking the same.

44 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

And if they really are pikemen or spearmen  then you can't drill with a low ceiling.

totally agree, not with long spears and pikes, but they also train from horseback in Backford... or will. The 2nd floor is more for rainy day 2nd weapon and training, like a gymnasium of sorts?

Was thinking horses on the ground floor... but the smell?

The dome acts like a lookout tower as a secondary function possibly.

40 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

IMHO you may be looking for a holy relic to beef that up

This is a good add, need to figure what it might be... if the local acolyte ends up in Sun County, after River of Cradles, Sun County, Sandheart, etc for a year and comes back to build the compound then all the better. We had some earlier discussion as to a relation with a known Sartar Sundomer (maybe an aunt of uncle) that is anti undead/chaos then it would fit...

Thanks again Mr. Sten!

[Squaredeal Sten]

As for the smell, a separate building across a courtyard would be indicated.

But I am not sure the smell of the stable / horse dung would be a significant problem for people in a horse using culture.  Horse really doesn't smell that much, not as bad as cow or pig.  Have you ever been to a stable, either riding or racing?  People in Backford probably make less of the smell than you or I would.   Consider that there are working and riding animals in the city.   People may also keep pigs there.  Butchers slaughter, did you ever smell a slaughterhouse?  And remember that most Gloranthan temples are places of animal sacrifice (one wonders whether the junior Initiates get the job of cleaning up.  IMG an initiate will be honored to run the barbecue after the sacrifice, take your Worship roll.)   And people use privies.  The cumulative smells of a small Gloranthan city would be like a small pre industrial RW city. 

 I don't know how old YOU are, but: Remember that in the 1920s and 30s  horse drawn vehicles were still in common use in European and American cities.  So what smells were your grandparents or great grandparents used to in their youth?  

Anyway, the villa picture indicates that a separate building or wing can fit into the cost estimate.  As well as a low wall, garden type wall and not a real fortification.

[Erol of Backford]

11 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Have you ever been to a stable, either riding or racing?

I have and to your point maybe not so bad, separate stable is better, I'll figure that out.

11 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

People may also keep pigs there. 

Like a particular Balazar town, no pigs inside the city walls...

11 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Butchers slaughter, did you ever smell a slaughterhouse?

In Cedar Rapids IA they used to burn carcases on Wednesdayds and if the wind was blowing from the south the city gots its 5th stench.

11 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

And remember that most Gloranthan temples are places of animal sacrifice (one wonders whether the junior Initiates get the job of cleaning up.  IMG an initiate will be honored to run the barbecue after the sacrifice, take your Worship roll.)

The Heortlanders IMG bake in animal form, no more animal sacrifices, lamb cakes with fresh buttercream frosting are the favorite in Backford and even sent to Nochet still fresh.

  

In the southern areas of the Lunar Empire, however, they have tried to emulate this baking trend but due to the influence of chaos something inevitably goes wrong... not mad cow disease but nearly just as bad...

  

Edited March 22, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[Squaredeal Sten]

How do they make buttercream frosting without refined sugar?  There is a thread somewhere in these forums that essentially says sugarcane is rare in Glorantha and they just make a brown sweet liquid with it.  Will have to search for that.  Anyway you need powdered sugar for buttercream icing. Too wet and the icing is runny.  That may be your Chaotic influence.

[My wife has been making cakes since well before we married, I have helped - mostly provided muscle- with big wedding cakes, I don't have the skill but am familiar with three or four types of icing.]

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

15 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The Heortlanders IMG bake in animal form, no more animal sacrifices

what is this, the Aqeda?

[Erol of Backford]

This is a tough crowd. I couldn't stop laughing looking at the one lamb cake face. My stomach hurts from laughing so much and I couldn't even get a commnet. 

8 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

[My wife has been making cakes since well before we married, I have helped - mostly provided muscle- with big wedding cakes, I don't have the skill but am familiar with three or four types of icing.]

My recent turned 15 daughter loves chemistry and is a scratch baker for sure. Her Key Lime pie bests any restaurant and we've tried many. Three Step Isles?

I will only eat powdered sugar frosting on grandma's christmas sugar cookies and molasses bars. Oncakes it really gross IMO.

8 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

There is a thread somewhere in these forums that essentially says sugarcane is rare in Glorantha and they just make a brown sweet liquid with it. 

I bet they make it in Three Step Isles along with the sugar cane that grows there which is brought to the Heortland Plateau (see how easy that was). IMG

The one face is too funny for me...

[Erol of Backford]

On 11/26/2021 at 11:17 AM, Joerg said:

But their worship rites don't have blood sacrifice (according to the Durengard scrolls), and the rites are overseen by the Zzaburs alongside the cult holy people - the worship/veneration mana needs to flow.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[Erol of Backford]

4 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

what is this, the Aqeda?

I understood that the Heortlanders moved from sacrifice of live animals - offerings to that of baked goods that looked like the creature to be offered? But cleaning the temples/alters wouldn't be an issue as who doesn't like cake that isn't covered with chaotic powdered sugar runny frosting.

 

[Erol of Backford]

Is anyone able to point out Skullpoint on a map? I am reading through Gathering Thunder and was hoping to see where it sits. Likely early in this campaign there will be some trade set up with the Skullpointers allowing the setting to be integrated with some known NPC's years later.

Also in the statement: The other reason is that the Verge is very close to Hendrikiland and is accessible through the summertime passes in the Storm Hills, via Gutlig Pass, the Skullpoint Pass, or Eurhol’s Vale.

Where is Gutlig Pass, Skullpoint Pass and Eurhol's Vale?

From the GtG year 411: Harmast Initiated, Lokamayadon killed at the Battle of the Verge. Where is the Verge?

 

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is anyone able to point out Skullpoint on a map? I am reading through Gathering Thunder and was hoping to see where it sits. Likely early in this campaign there will be some trade set up with the Skullpointers allowing the setting to be integrated with some known NPC's years later.

Also in the statement: The other reason is that the Verge is very close to Hendrikiland and is accessible through the summertime passes in the Storm Hills, via Gutlig Pass, the Skullpoint Pass, or Eurhol’s Vale.

Where is Gutlig Pass, Skullpoint Pass and Eurhol's Vale?

Firstly look at this: ISS1502 Dragon Pass: A Gazetteer of Kerofinela (2003)

There a map at the bottom you can download.

You should be able to see the verge to the right of the Stormwalk mts, along with Gutlig's top in the Stormwalks

But basically they aren't really defined places. I made them part of the Gardufar tribe (until that ended), and stuck them out of the way in the Stormwalks.

Eurhol's Vale is a short story by Penny Love

Note that A Gazetteer of Kerofinela is now mostly superseded by the Guide, and many features were not used as they weren't on Greg's master maps. 

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Note that A Gazetteer of Kerofinela is now mostly superseded by the Guide, and many features were not used as they weren't on Greg's master maps

Like Bullpen! I have the original print of the Gazetteer, didn't think to look there.

I am not able to see any copies for sale of either of Ms. Love's books. Anyone have ideas?

Also I had placed several noncanon items/scenarios on the Heortland Plateau form various sources such as Tales and Tradetalk. I put the Caldvale Manor scenario just south of Jab Hills on the north branch of the Minthus River... 

Curious if anyone has a Newtling settlement developed anywhere on the Heortlan Plateau?

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

But basically they aren't really defined places. I made them part of the Gardufar tribe (until that ended), and stuck them out of the way in the Stormwalks.

I'll do the something similar, it works and I have placed an abandoned dwarven settlement (red arrow) which I am working on integrating which is just south of Skullpoint which has been partly infested with Krarsht tunnels.

It'll be interesting to have some Emali's moving through the Kitori lands on the way to Skullpoint. Maybe they'll be able to sell the Trolls some dried scorpionman tail!?

 

Thanks for the links Mr. Scott!

 

[Erol of Backford]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:29 PM, jajagappa said:

University of Sog City: Conference Guide (Seventh Ecclesiastical Council, 1625) from 1994.

On 3/14/2022 at 11:31 PM, Joerg said:

The Freeform had a bishop Gwydion of Sklar accompanied by Tanisoran-born Gerard de Montanmpein as Aeolians and Lunar convert Rikard the Tigerhearted in the Carmanian delegation.

Any info on this Gerard de Montanmpein character?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Any info on this Gerard de Montanmpein character?

Presumably made up for the freeform.

[Erol of Backford]

Expanding on trade from Heortland/Backford with Nochet, activity at the LM Temple there, does anyone have ideas for the PC's being employed indirectly to conduct scouting missions and or minor raids against the Ditali. Let's say the Lunars are sending a mission to see Greymane and the Esrolian Queendom wished to thwart this relationship somehow, where would something like this take place? These would be Heortling weapon thanes and the years would be from 1600-1605.

It would be a lead into the PC's taking part in the Building Wall Battle, fighting against the Lunars. 

In times of need, the Grandmothers regularly employ other mercenaries. In addition to the types mentioned are Heortling weapon thanes, trolls from the Shadow Plateau or even Rokari knights. (GtG)

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Let's say the Lunars are sending a mission to see Greymane and the Esrolian Queendom wished to thwart this relationship somehow, where would something like this take place?

Somewhere along the Trader's Road between Rhigos and the Ditali/Solanthi lands most likely. But, could occur in Rhigos itself if you hoped to implicate someone there. 

Bear in mind that the Queen of Esrolia at this time is also Queen of Nochet, but she is not queen of the other cities. She is primarily a religious figure and is also Belintar's Governor of Esrolia (but again this is heavy on the participation in religious efforts - she is fulfilling the myths and rituals of Ernalda). Plenty of room for rival grandmothers to target the Lunar mission (while others aid it).

[Erol of Backford]

On 1/24/2022 at 1:36 PM, Jeff said:

Of the minor cults in Esvular, there are of course the other Lightbringers (there is an important temple to Lhankor Mhy west of Mt. Passant), there is Gustbran for potters and bronze workers, and there are more Argan Argar cultists than in all of Sartar.

What would be the Argan Argar draw to Esvularian region of the Heortland Plateau, trade? About how many AA's would be in the Esvularian region, Mount Passant area?

Would that also indicate a higher than average troll population in or near Mt. Passant than in Sartar other than say the near Troll Woods? About how many trolls near Mt. Pass if this is true?

The PC's we have would often view Darkness worshipers as antagonists even if it were constrained to the trollball pitch?

Also what happened to the Esvularian population after Tigerheart? I am guessing it sort of stayed as is unless he persecuted Aeolians but are we wrong in assuming the Esvularians are Aeolians?!

Lastly after the Wolf Pirates sack Noloswal in 1623 and then by 1625, Nolos falls to Seshnela the migration of refugees to Handra and Nochet from Nolos, Pithdaros, and Pasos. The Esvulari are outnumbered by the Seshnegi. Do the Esvulari up their mercenary guard to keep the Seshnegi at bay and or do a good number move to areas near or in say Mt. Passant? 

On 1/23/2022 at 10:34 AM, jajagappa said:

Andrew Logan Montgomery's Six Seasons in Sartar has very good presentation of both of these, though they are presented in other works as well.

I finally acquired Mr. Montgomery's work, quite nicely done, much of it will be integrated.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What would be the Argan Argar draw to Esvularian region of the Heortland Plateau, trade? About how many AA's would be in the Esvularian region, Mount Passant area?

Argan Argar is one of the Emanations of the Invisible God, and there exists the Night Temple upon the right foot of the Mount Passant itself (just as Ehilm's Temple sits at an equivalent point on the left foot of the mountain).

Some of the Aeolian zzaburi work with the Emanation of Darkness and undoubtedly, they want specific substances related to Darkness to enhance the efficacy of their spells. 

It will still be a small percent of the population though. I'd guess 1000 at most.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also what happened to the Esvularian population after Tigerheart? I am guessing it sort of stayed as is unless he persecuted Aeolians but are we wrong in assuming the Esvularians are Aeolians?!

The Esvularians are Aeolians, yes.

After Rikard, they are ruled by a Lunar governor in Durengard from 1620 to late 1623/early 1624 at which point the Lunars retreat. Broyan returns with allies and defeats them at the Battle of Milran (location noted in King of Sartar map). The remaining Lunars must either: 1) fight their way north while getting harried by rebellious clans; or 2) some join the Esvulari leaders who are now engaged in significant in-fighting between the Esvulari nobles. Note that the Bandori valley was not conquered by the Lunars, largely because they ally with the Brithini leader of Refuge.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Lastly after the Wolf Pirates sack Noloswal in 1623 and then by 1625, Nolos falls to Seshnela the migration of refugees to Handra and Nochet from Nolos, Pithdaros, and Pasos. The Esvulari are outnumbered by the Seshnegi. Do the Esvulari up their mercenary guard to keep the Seshnegi at bay and or do a good number move to areas near or in say Mt. Passant? 

While increasingly "outnumbered" in Nochet by the Nolos refugees, they do not worship at the same temples (which may make some difference). But how that plays out remains to be seen, and may depend on who gains the allegiance of Queen Samastina.