Nightshade Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Hmmm, having actually seen the film I might comment on what it contains. If you look at in terms of "good" and "bad", the mining company, or rather its representative, is a corporate bad-guy as is the commander of the mercenaries. They have a clear objective in the film and want to achieve this, on the whole, without violence. However, things are taken to the extreme and get out of control, but in a realistic and believable way. The film isn't about the evil military killing defenceles aliens, far from it. Man for man, the aliens far outclass the humans and are not afraid of showing it, which is why the military reponse needs to be heavy or extreme. There is a tactical response that itself causes a counter-response and subsequent escalation. In many respects, it is like Dancing With Wolves, in that a military man finds peace in another environment. But enough of defending the film. Anyone who is anti-Avatar won't want to see it and fans of Sci-Fi and fantasy will go to see it anyway. Anyone else should watch it because it is really good. If you have the choice, watch it in 3D as it is the best 3D film I have seen. Yeah. Its really not that simplistic. Even the corporate head has an expression at one point that indicates he may think things have gotten out of control. The only pretty much unmitigated villain in the piece (and even he's depicted as personally brave) is the military commander, and that's part of what drives the movie; he's let his antagonistic relationship with Pandora get a hold of him. Some of the soldiers even mention early on that working for the company isn't like working for the government; its just being mercs, but the money is good. So people are projecting considerably more on the movie than what's said. It does have a blunt-hammer ecological message, and some comments about the rights of indigeonous people over colonial types, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vile Traveller Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 So people are projecting considerably more on the movie than what's said. It does have a blunt-hammer ecological message, and some comments about the rights of indigeonous people over colonial types, but that's about it. Most of the politicising of the film is also coming from people who have not seen the film and seem to have some basic misconceptions about it. I really can't see how one could have political leanings for the violent exploitation of a pristine natural environment and its relatively defenceless inhabitants. Is there some way in which personal beliefs can make this seem a good thing to do? For the record, I didn't think that I would enjoy the film much going in, it was something to do on an otherwise unoccupied Saturday afternoon. But I really have nothing bad to say about it, having seen it. I spent about three hours being thoroughly entertained for a reasonable sum of money. My advice is - go see it and then make up your mind, or don't see it but don't then try to interpret it based on some preview clips and other people's opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Most of the politicising of the film is also coming from people who have not seen the film and seem to have some basic misconceptions about it. I am waiting for the directors'/producers' commentary sound track when the DVD is released. The commentary sound track on the Starship Troopers DVD was very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Most of the politicising of the film is also coming from people who have not seen the film and seem to have some basic misconceptions about it. I really can't see how one could have political leanings for the violent exploitation of a pristine natural environment and its relatively defenceless inhabitants. Is there some way in which personal beliefs can make this seem a good thing to do? My advice is - go see it and then make up your mind, or don't see it but don't then try to interpret it based on some preview clips and other people's opinions. I've seen it twice. The ecological grandstanding faintly annoyed me the first time (mostly because its set up to be lopsided; the Pandorans have an enormous set of advantages in being ecologically balanced), but then I shrugged and moved on, and since I was ready for it the second time, it didn't bother me at all, and I enjoyed the movie more. I do have to say people who think it was badly acted or written (with the somewhat trite plot) were apparently watching a different movie than I was. For the record, I didn't think that I would enjoy the film much going in, it was something to do on an otherwise unoccupied Saturday afternoon. But I really have nothing bad to say about it, having seen it. I spent about three hours being thoroughly entertained for a reasonable sum of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifletraxor Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 If the fantasy/sci-fi aspects of the movie could just continue on in this thread, and the political aspects be moved here: Politics Forum .org - Index page, then that would be great... I'm going to see the movie on wednesday. No spoilers! SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippyHippy Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) The movie is politicised against misguided U.S foreign policy in the same way the Bourne movies are. Not a problem for me, and more of a reflection of current prevailant views rather than anything really radical. It depends upon your own views as to how you take it, I suppose. For the record, I thought the Starship Troopers movie was hilarious though - and a more prescient movie than given credit for, concidering what happened in the following decade.... Edited December 26, 2009 by TrippyHippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifletraxor Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 If the fantasy/sci-fi aspects of the movie could just continue on in this thread, and the political aspects be moved here: Politics Forum .org - Index page, then that would be great... Yeah... That would be great. :cool: SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 If the fantasy/sci-fi aspects of the movie could just continue on in this thread, and the political aspects be moved here: Politics Forum .org - Index page, then that would be great... That doesn't look half as interesting as this forum. I'm going to see the movie on wednesday. No spoilers! It's got some blue aliens wearing g-strings. Oops! Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippyHippy Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 The best sci-fi is infused with politics - from Brave New World all the way to Star Wars - the two are not seperable, and really it's just a case of how you react to ideas, rather than separate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) The best sci-fi is infused with politics - from Brave New World all the way to Star Wars - the two are not seperable, and really it's just a case of how you react to ideas, rather than separate them. And who can forget the breadth and depth of political topics covered in Babylon 5? Nightwatch anyone? Even the concept of Glorantha's Nysalor/Gbaji could be considered an analysis of human nature, malignant beguilement with a smile, and politics. Edited December 27, 2009 by dragonewt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Yeah, I'd rather see MORE politics in sci fi/fantasy movies... rather than drain them of all relevance so that no one ever gets offended and we're left with nothing but pretty pictures. I had an opportunity to see Avatar for free yesterday but I couldn't muster sufficient interest to get myself there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seneschal Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 They're bigger than us. They're stronger than us. They're brutal, mysterious savages who ride scary wolf things and can call down the wrath of a tree goddess upon us. And they're in our way. Hmmm ... The only logical solution is to kill them and take their stuff! Yep, RPG convention trumps political conversation every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vile Traveller Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Well, IMO the point is that while there are of course political issues at the forefront of Avatar, they need not be directly linked to actual current or recent events nor to particular political groups or orientations (although I'm still struggling how there can be an 'anti-environmental' or 'pro-exploitation' political orientation). The theme of civilised-exploits-savage is as old as fiction. Personally, the only RW parallel that sprang to mind on my watching was the East India Company and their militarised approach to commercial colonisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDLeary Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I haven't seen the movie yet, but it sounds like its much like the Banana Wars in Central America from the early part of the last Century. Not that similar issues don't prevail today. SDLeary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I haven't seen the movie yet, but it sounds like its much like the Banana Wars in Central America from the early part of the last Century. Not that similar issues don't prevail today. BP in Nigeria, the British Empire in India, the Spanish (and other European powers) in the Americas. I saw Avatar in 3d last night and the only politics I picked up was a general (slightly fuzzy, not very rational) pro-ecology and anti-imperialism (especially economic imperialism) feel. I suppose, given that everyone had American accents it could be read as specifically aimed at America, but it didn't seem that way. As a film, I thought it was typical Cameron - to the extent that several characters seemed very familiar from other Cameron films (I keep wanting to call the woman pilot Vasquez). Beautifully realised, thin (but generally well performed) characters running through a thin (but pretty well executed and structured) plot that any fan of written SF knew within the first minutes of the film (and even non-SF fans presumably deduced well before the end). Visually amazing (up there with Titanic and T2), as a movie nothing particularly special - I enjoyed it more than I did Titanic, but then the mawkish sentimentality in that annoys me and in Avatar I can ignore it by speculating about stuff on Pandora. Overall a B- / C+ Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) EDIT: I would also note the thematic, possible influence of the Blue Planet rpg background on this movie - except they used a different type of habitat. Three things came very prominently to mind as I watched the film - Jorune, Andre Norton's Janus and LeGuins "the Word for World is Forest". Some of the stuff in the film is scarily like how I tend to run Jorune's isho and the Glispeen... Now, Pandora is NOT, exactly, any of those worlds: but there are a lot of parallels and in particular the story has a LOT of similarities to the Norton and LeGuin stories - but then, Cameron's never been a hugely original story teller. The LeGuin story is (by her own admission) very much influenced by the war in Vietnam (during which it was written) - but it too in the end is about wider issues of economic and cultural imperialism... Nick Edited January 18, 2010 by NickMiddleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Three things came very prominently to mind as I watched the film - Jorune, Andre Norton's Janus and LeGuins "the Word for World is Forest". Some of the stuff in the film is scarily like how I tend to run Jorune's isho and the Glispeen... Now, Pandora is NOT, exactly, any of those worlds: but there are a lot of parallels and in particular the story has a LOT of similarities to the Norton and LeGuin stories - but then, Cameron's never been a hugely original story teller. The LeGuin story is (by her own admission) very much influenced by the war in Vietnam (during which it was written) - but it too in the end is about wider issues of economic and cultural imperialism... Nick The nature of Pandora itself also made me think more than a bit of Planet from the Alpha Centuri computer game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badcat Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 ...:ohwell: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippyHippy Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) I enjoyed it more than I did Titanic I enjoyed having my back waxed more than I enjoyed Titanic. It didn't last as long.... Edited January 19, 2010 by TrippyHippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Some friends invited me out to see it this afternoon... on their dime... and I politely refused the offer. Regardless of how pretty it looks I'm damn sure it would annoy me more than it would entertain... I'm glad it's doing well though, that means more work for more animators in the future... and I'm an animator. Meanwhile, the new Terry Gilliam movie is out, as well as The Fantastic Mr. Fox... so I think I'll be watching those instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Saw it Saturday, loved it. Probably one of the best movies I ever saw. It was the first CG movie that didn't make me think "cool CG effect" every time it came up. Rod Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmitchell Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Maybe I'll go see it, maybe not. I'm not that interested. Still, I'm glad Cameron made it, just as I'm glad Lucas made the prequel trilogy despite never ever wanting to see it ever again. By pushing technical boundaries, he's giving tools to the next generation of film makers, which if Moore's Law holds will be faster and cheaper than they are today. Imagine that level of realism with a speculative fiction story that's actually interesting ... Quote Frank "Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vile Traveller Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Having had some time to think about it since seeing the movie, I think one of the best things is that it was very immersive - there were few points after the initial "wow!" where I was consciously aware of the CGI or the 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippyHippy Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I saw it again last weekend - in 3D this time. I have to say, I just got bored, and left halfway through. I found Sherlock Holmes much more entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 I found Sherlock Holmes much more entertaining. And I fell asleep halfway through that Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.