Probably Typical Stupid Question from Newcomer to Glorantha

[Baron Wulfraed]

4 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I'm also aware that the Heroquest system is much more "high level" and heroic. But it sounds also very good for that. That's why I have previously considered playing some HQ sessions with my players as well, just to change the feel a little bit. However, until I get to play all that I have for RQ it's likely that the new RQ rules for HeroQuesting get published.

Until the canon rules appear, there is https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/326489/Secrets-of-HeroQuesting

 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I'm also aware that the Heroquest system is much more "high level" and heroic. But it sounds also very good for that. That's why I have previously considered playing some HQ sessions with my players as well, just to change the feel a little bit. However, until I get to play all that I have for RQ it's likely that the new RQ rules for HeroQuesting get published.

This is the first time that I have the chance to use two robust systems to play in the same game world, so it must be fun to play with that. (or perhaps not, pehaps playing HQ will spoil my players and then they'll hate to go back to the "normalcy" of RQ...)

"High level" really has to do with the stories told, not the game systems used.  Both HQG and RQG can be fully heroic and engage characters in heroquesting, or can be very gritty, low-level games.  Particular actions are more abstracted in HQG, more cinematic in a sense, but you shouldn't think that you have to use HeroQuest in order to go heroquesting or RuneQuest if you want to hang around lowly dives in Pavis.

I run games with each and find they can both tell the stories I wish to run including heroquests.

4 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I always thought of HeroQuesting as something "not so common", but this is the first time that I heard it described this way. It makes sense that it would be rare and terrifying though. Nevertheless, it sounds absolutely amazing, especially for more advanced characters (which makes sense; it would be weird for newbies to go on HeroQuesting and save the day).

Heroquests do not occur everyday, but any seasonal holy day is an opportunity for adventure, including heroquests.  And they are not the sole province of advanced characters.  Initiation into adulthood or into a cult is a heroquest - not necessarily one that is played out, but they could be.  A Rite of Spring festival or a Harvest festival in a community are annual events that touch upon the world of the gods.  They can simply be the annual event, or they can become heroquests when enemies or ill luck strikes and disrupts the event.

Some heroquests may look very mundane and be entirely in "this world", but still have broader ramifications.  Some can touch on or pass into the Spirit World or the Gods World or the Underworld (I've led my players into all three using both HQG and RQG, and in the latter these are characters pretty much post-character creation, nothing "advanced" needed). 

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

Perhaps we might consider one's initiation into adulthood a hero quest of sorts, but is it really? 

Certainly is in my games!  I definitely follow the path delineated in Six Seasons in Sartar, as well as Greg's own descriptions of initiation rites.

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

If hero quests are easy, you are GMing them wrong imo.  They should be terrifying.  Your characters are literally meeting gods or embodying the role of gods, and facing mythical problems and legendary enemies.  If a child from your village goes missing 411, there is always a secret terror among the parents that they have somehow wandered onto the Hero Plane, and unless they are frantically fortunate kids, they are worse than dead, i.e. may be spiritually destroyed or return cursed or chaotic etc.

No disagreement here.  Heroquests are neither trivial nor easy, quite likely terrifying, possibly deadly...or worse.  But they are also fun to run and game. 🙂

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

HQ is sort of Glorantha Pulp Fiction, whereas RQ's various editions are more about the gritty realism of daily life.  That is not to say that you can't build a hero in RQG, just that it will take longer, and is not the character's "birthright" the way it is in HQ.

Really either can be played pulpy or gritty.  Personally I like to see hero-building by my players, but in neither game is it an easy path.

[LordNigel]

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Until the canon rules appear, there is https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/326489/Secrets-of-HeroQuesting

 

Yes! It's on my wishlist! I'm just waiting for the credit on my credit card to "refresh", haha

[LordNigel]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

"High level" really has to do with the stories told, not the game systems used.  Both HQG and RQG can be fully heroic and engage characters in heroquesting, or can be very gritty, low-level games.  Particular actions are more abstracted in HQG, more cinematic in a sense, but you shouldn't think that you have to use HeroQuest in order to go heroquesting or RuneQuest if you want to hang around lowly dives in Pavis.

I run games with each and find they can both tell the stories I wish to run including heroquests.

Heroquests do not occur everyday, but any seasonal holy day is an opportunity for adventure, including heroquests.  And they are not the sole province of advanced characters.  Initiation into adulthood or into a cult is a heroquest - not necessarily one that is played out, but they could be.  A Rite of Spring festival or a Harvest festival in a community are annual events that touch upon the world of the gods.  They can simply be the annual event, or they can become heroquests when enemies or ill luck strikes and disrupts the event.

Some heroquests may look very mundane and be entirely in "this world", but still have broader ramifications.  Some can touch on or pass into the Spirit World or the Gods World or the Underworld (I've led my players into all three using both HQG and RQG, and in the latter these are characters pretty much post-character creation, nothing "advanced" needed). 

Certainly is in my games!  I definitely follow the path delineated in Six Seasons in Sartar, as well as Greg's own descriptions of initiation rites.

No disagreement here.  Heroquests are neither trivial nor easy, quite likely terrifying, possibly deadly...or worse.  But they are also fun to run and game. 🙂

Really either can be played pulpy or gritty.  Personally I like to see hero-building by my players, but in neither game is it an easy path.

Thanks! Yeah, I feel that I lean toward this philosophy. The group and the story dictate what is possible, not the gaming system. Sure, some systems lend themselves better for certain things and this might facilitate certain styles of play, but that would be like saying that D&D is only made for min-maxing murder hobos with no interest in roleplaying.

It seems to me (in my utter ignorance) that HeroQuesting is one of the things that make Glorantha so special, and even if it is a rare thing, rare things do frequently happen in the stories we play at the table, because we're after memorable moments after all.

However, it's very nice to find a balance between everything that's being said here. This avoids making HeroQuesting too commonplace, which would water down the "epic" factor a little.
It serves to show, though, that indeed HeroQuesting seems to be something for a more experienced GM, especially before the official rules come by.

In the series of videos I'm watching on youtube, J-M mentions that he created an adventures he calls "Ernalda's Horn of Plenty" (IIRC), where he introduces the players to the concept of HeroQuesting through what he calls "reverse HeroQuesting". The idea is that the Broo are conducting a HeroQuest for their own needs and when the Quest requires an "enemy" to appear, the PCs are summoned to act as the menace agains the Broo. This sounded fascinating to me, but I'd never know how to even begin GM'ing this without proper guidelines.

[Oracle]

One of the points, why Glorantha is so special to me, is the fact, that Glorantha is build completely on Myths and Legends, which are real not just stories. Most of these Myths and Legends happened in pre-historic times (i.e. before the Dawn of Time). And in a Heroquest you participate in one of these Myths or Legends, and in the best (or is it in the worst?) cases you will be able to change these Myths or Legends (and therefore changing Glorantha!). These changes can happen on different levels: personal, community/clan, tribe, kingdom/empire/nation or even world. And that's the power of Heroquests in Glorantha.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Oracle

[soltakss]

15 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I always thought of HeroQuesting as something "not so common", but this is the first time that I heard it described this way. It makes sense that it would be rare and terrifying though. Nevertheless, it sounds absolutely amazing, especially for more advanced characters (which makes sense; it would be weird for newbies to go on HeroQuesting and save the day).
However, the "real GM book" release sounds too far away and I hope some adventures include HeroQuests here and there just to whet my table's appetite.

People HeroQuest very early in my campaigns, so it is quite common for newbies to save the day.

For me, HeroQuesting is dangerous and scary, but is eminently doable.

Other people disagree, reserving it for powerful heroes, but why should they have all the fun?

15 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I'm also aware that the Heroquest system is much more "high level" and heroic. But it sounds also very good for that. That's why I have previously considered playing some HQ sessions with my players as well, just to change the feel a little bit. However, until I get to play all that I have for RQ it's likely that the new RQ rules for HeroQuesting get published.

The be honest, the HeroQuest system doesn't have a lot to do with HeroQuesting, both in the rules presented and the scenarios published. You can do HeroQuesting as easily using the RuneQuest rules as with the HeroQuest rules.

14 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Is this really correct?

As far as I understand, there is such a variation in degree of Heroquests that generalizing them like this might be reductive. Holy Time rituals are often This World heroests, aren't they? And as you said, initiation rituals are effectively mini-heroquests. 

In my Glorantha, HeroQuests are relatively common.

 

[davecake]

On 6/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, soltakss said:

But, basically, if I ran the Cradle, I would use the stat blocks that are present in the Cradle.

I recently ran the Cradle using RQG, and I found it necessary to adapt them a bit here and there, mostly because they would have been a bit underpowered in RQG. But I also beefed up encounters by adding a few NPCs from elsewhere, and the RQ3 stats for tough opponents were still very much tough opponents (eg Coders, Sun County rune masters). A few rules changes *drastically* changed encounters, and I may have house ruled a few as a result (in particular, I dislike the RQG RAW that any Orlanthi who relies on woad will almost certainly die to a Sunspear). 

[LordNigel]

On 6/20/2021 at 9:03 AM, davecake said:

I recently ran the Cradle using RQG, and I found it necessary to adapt them a bit here and there, mostly because they would have been a bit underpowered in RQG. But I also beefed up encounters by adding a few NPCs from elsewhere, and the RQ3 stats for tough opponents were still very much tough opponents (eg Coders, Sun County rune masters). A few rules changes *drastically* changed encounters, and I may have house ruled a few as a result (in particular, I dislike the RQG RAW that any Orlanthi who relies on woad will almost certainly die to a Sunspear). 

Thanks for sharing this!
People mentioned that tweaking here or there would be necessary, but for me as a newcomer it would be harder to handwave things since I don't know what level of challenge to expect. It's always great to have more details about what other people did or didn't do when adapting!

[eknarfer]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:07 PM, LordNigel said:

Nice! I hear that the Troll (Uz) culture is fascinating in Glorantha!
I've been watching a series of videos on youtube by a guy called JM and a very knowledgeable fellow called Evan Franke. It's great! And besides Trollpak they recommended to read Dorastor as well.

Bit late in my comment here. Thanks so much for the kind words. There are lots of knowledgeable fellows around here, and as you see they are all very helpful and responsive! Glad you are diving in on your own exploration of Glorantha. It is wonderful, and I am sure you will find all sorts of great things to make Glorantha your own. While sadly Dorastor is a rarity and an expensive one at this time (the great offerings from Third Edition remain on deck as far as what happens next with them) the initial book with the description of Dorastor and the evil cults, Cults of Terror, will give you a lot. Sounds like you grabbed the Cult Compendium, or were thinking about it, and the whole of Cults of Terror is in there. The reprints of Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror a great as well, but there are a few more cults in the Compendium. Of course, all those will become overtaken by events once the Gods of Glorantha comes out hopefully in 2022. But the other materials in Cults of Terror will continue to be classics and very informative, even as the corpus of the cults gets updated.

I should also plug J-M here. He is also very knowledgeable, but he just lets me talk a lot so it sounds like I know more!

Wishing you great Gloranthan adventures!

[Ian_W]

On 6/13/2021 at 3:27 PM, LordNigel said:

 

In the series of videos I'm watching on youtube, J-M mentions that he created an adventures he calls "Ernalda's Horn of Plenty" (IIRC), where he introduces the players to the concept of HeroQuesting through what he calls "reverse HeroQuesting". The idea is that the Broo are conducting a HeroQuest for their own needs and when the Quest requires an "enemy" to appear, the PCs are summoned to act as the menace agains the Broo. This sounded fascinating to me, but I'd never know how to even begin GM'ing this without proper guidelines.

Regarding Heroquesting in general, you might want to have a look at this - the idea being each magic spell being learnt a lesser heroquest.

http://www.soltakss.com/rune1.html

 

Regarding Our Heroes being the enemies in a quest, I'd suggest something like this for Orlanthi.

They each get a warning about what is happening, whether in dreams, from an appropriate animal (alynxes acting wierd for orlanthi, storm bull kicking your backside in your dreams and then glaring in the direction you need to go, whatever). They get a short time for preparation - this is where things like cultural support are important, as your uncle lends you a spear, your Significant Other puts a ribbon in your hair, your mother kisses your forehead and wishes you luck and so on (*cough* Arming of Orlanth *cough*).

Note if you are the group actively questing, you can do a more thorough job of preparing ...

Our Heroes then go through several stations, which has them going backwards from the Storm Age to the Fire Age to the Earth Age, which is where the Broo are, trying to nick Ernalda's Horn of Plenty.

So, stage One is the entry to the Storm Age. Do what rapid preparation is needed, then it's time to climb to the peak of a mountian. Winds get higher. Sylphs cluster. Fog cuts off the Sun. Then there's a path down you havent seen before. Perhaps an opportunity to reject a trickster figure giving you a fancy sword (representing the option of rejecting helping your community to get Magic Power from the otherworld), or some similar temptation vs duty.

Stage Two, the Fire Age. Sneaking down the foothills past patrols of Golden-Armed warriors on goldeneye horses with bows and spears and eagles circling them. Violence is an option here, and you could get Glory by fighting these other enemies ... but they are not the ones you should fight.

Stage Three, the Earth Age. Step one could be the forest primaeval, perhaps with the opportunity to get lost forever as a tree spirit distracts. Or perhaps the opportunity to be tempted by the wealth of the Green Age, as you find flowers like gems and trees that bud the purest copper you have seen.

And then there's the Broo, one per Our Hero, digging in the forest trying to find the Horn of Plenty. One per hero, perhaps twisted versions of your own heroes. IMO the key to winning should be the community support from the preparation phase, and fighting like your Gods and people do.

However ... fighting Broo in the Otherworld gets you things like suppurating wounds that won't heal (aka permanent stat loss). 

 

If Our Heroes win, then Ernalda's Horn of Plenty remains hidden, which means come spring the crops sprout and the cattle and sheep increase.

 

If Our Heroes lose, or refuse to play or get distracted by wealth, power or glory, then it's going to be a tough winter, and you can pretty much guarantee the local Broo are going to be multiplying and raiding.

 

Does that help ?

 

[LordNigel]

22 hours ago, Ian_W said:

Regarding Heroquesting in general, you might want to have a look at this - the idea being each magic spell being learnt a lesser heroquest.

http://www.soltakss.com/rune1.html

 

Regarding Our Heroes being the enemies in a quest, I'd suggest something like this for Orlanthi.

[...]

Does that help ?

 

Wow, thanks for taking the time to answer my already forgotten post!
Yeah, it sure helps! Every idea and every material is welcome. I really like your suggestions for the "players as enemies" story!

I am currently still GM'ing my GURPS cyberpunk campaign to my group, but before I bring a new GURPS campaign to the table (which will require some preparation, I want to take my players to Glorantha for a ride. Initially I think it will be wiser to use the current stories I have from the books I bought, like the GM's pack adventures and the two adventure books that have been released. That should be quite enough for all of us to get used to the system and the setting. After that, I plan on starting to get bolder with my ideas.

[Ian_W]

15 minutes ago, LordNigel said:

Wow, thanks for taking the time to answer my already forgotten post!
Yeah, it sure helps! Every idea and every material is welcome. I really like your suggestions for the "players as enemies" story!

I am currently still GM'ing my GURPS cyberpunk campaign to my group,

 

Note that 'Our Heroes on defense' also works for them being security/rapid response in a cyberpunk context.

 

Also, if you are all familiar with the Gurps systems, there are absolutely no reasons you can't use that rules set for Glorantha.

[IronDuck]

On 6/12/2021 at 8:32 PM, Baron Wulfraed said:

Until the canon rules appear, there is https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/326489/Secrets-of-HeroQuesting

 

Sadly, the only secret contained in Secrets of HeroQuesting is that it contains no secrets. It's just a summation of mostly flavor text about HeroQuesting from other books. If you looking for a system to build and run HeroQuests, then you are in the same boat as the rest of us - build your own system. 

[soltakss]

10 hours ago, IronDuck said:

It's just a summation of mostly flavor text about HeroQuesting from other books.

There is a lot that isn't in other books:

• The overlaying of Myth onto the world to create a HeroQuest
• The Invoking of stations or HeroQuests to gain magical effects
• Using HeroQuests as counters to other HeroQuests
• Heroic Casting of Runemagic (In effect, using your POW as a Rune Pool)

10 hours ago, IronDuck said:

If you looking for a system to build and run HeroQuests, then you are in the same boat as the rest of us - build your own system. 

If you want a system to run HeroQuests then use the system you normally use to game with.

That is the whole point - You do not need a separate system for HeroQuesting, if you use RQG for gaming then use RQG for HeroQuesting, if you use QuestWorlds for gaming then use it for HeroQuesting, same for 13th Age Glorantha.

HeroQuesting does not need another gaming system, in my opinion.

Secrets of HeroQuesting does cover building HeroQuests and How Humakt Learns to Grieve has some examples of how I turned a Myth into a HeroQuest.

[IronDuck]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

There is a lot that isn't in other books:

• The overlaying of Myth onto the world to create a HeroQuest
• The Invoking of stations or HeroQuests to gain magical effects
• Using HeroQuests as counters to other HeroQuests
• Heroic Casting of Runemagic (In effect, using your POW as a Rune Pool)

If you want a system to run HeroQuests then use the system you normally use to game with.

That is the whole point - You do not need a separate system for HeroQuesting, if you use RQG for gaming then use RQG for HeroQuesting, if you use QuestWorlds for gaming then use it for HeroQuesting, same for 13th Age Glorantha.

HeroQuesting does not need another gaming system, in my opinion.

Secrets of HeroQuesting does cover building HeroQuests and How Humakt Learns to Grieve has some examples of how I turned a Myth into a HeroQuest.

• Sorry, the overlaying of myth into the world to create a HeroQuest is not new.
• The success at various points in a HeroQuest to gain magical effects isn't new. It's how HeroQuests are supposed to work. The opposite is usually mentioned more with failing to gain the benefit from one part of a HeroQuest will affect the rest of the HeroQuest plays out.
• Using HeroQuests to counter HeroQuests has been a thing written about for years. The classic example are Lunar heroes screwing with various Orlanthi HeroQuests.
• Heroic casting of RuneMagic proves my point. You're needing to adjust the system to perform HeroQuests.

First, I didn't say you had a create whole new game system. You just can't use the base system as is (speaking from a BRP viewpoint) for HeroQuests as that generally  doesn't work. Any competent character would breeze through HeroQuests way too easily. You need a HeroQuest system that can do the following:

• Allows a character like  Harmast, a former simple farmer, to not only rediscover the LightBringer Quest (one of the hardest HeroQuests), but to do it successfully twice. 
• Allows a very skilled person like Kallyr Starbrow to fail at it (along with many other people that fail at doing the LBQ). 
• Are not too dangerous that people can use them for coming of age HeroQuests where massive casualties aren't expected or wanted.
• Are dangerous enough that incredible skilled people like Arkat are wounded and even more powerful and skilled groups like the God Learners suffer massive casualties when trying to force HeroQuests.

A BRP based system that meets those criteria doesn't exist yet. A position I hold is that character's skill and power cannot be the only variables in play. We are missing parts that would allow us to better emulate the HeroQuests.

Speaking of skill, what constitutes a heroic or super-heroic character? There might be as many answers to that as there are GMs. Is your game like 1%-100% for normals, 100%-200% for heroic and 200%-300% super-heroic? Or does super-heroic start at 500%-700%? A system that would challenge the first group would be a cake walk to the second, and a system that would challenge the second group would be a impossible task to the first. So, a one-size-fits-all solution may be impossible anyway.

"Building HeroQuests" Was my version of the document outdated? Was the table of contents wrong? Was the index wrong? Let me search for "building"... Six hits and none of them have to deal with building HeroQuests. Or do I have to do a HeroQuest to see those parts of the book? 😉 There is a part involving the Crimson Bat, but I think that example is pretty bad and really wouldn't even be a HeroQuest in itself.

It's 3/10 book. Most of its good ideas are merely regurgitated from other books, but the work is sadly marred by its incomplete and bad ideas. A person is going to read it once and stick it on a shelf where it will sit as there is really no reason to ever consult it again.  

 

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, IronDuck said:

It's 3/10 book. Most of its good ideas are merely regurgitated from other books, but the work is sadly marred by its incomplete and bad ideas. A person is going to read it once and stick it on a shelf where it will sit as there is really no reason to ever consult it again.  

Thank you for your feedback.

 

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, IronDuck said:

It's 3/10 book. Most of its good ideas are merely regurgitated from other books, but the work is sadly marred by its incomplete and bad ideas. A person is going to read it once and stick it on a shelf where it will sit as there is really no reason to ever consult it again.  

If you send me your DTRPG Email address and proof of purchase, I am happy to refund you.

[LordNigel]

On 12/9/2021 at 12:47 AM, Ian_W said:

Note that 'Our Heroes on defense' also works for them being security/rapid response in a cyberpunk context.

Good idea!

 

On 12/9/2021 at 12:47 AM, Ian_W said:

Also, if you are all familiar with the Gurps systems, there are absolutely no reasons you can't use that rules set for Glorantha.

Yeah, I thought about that. I even have an unofficial supplement for GURPS Glorantha. However, I bought every Runequest book for the new edition, and the main Heroquest book, so I'd really like to taste the system, you know? I'm aware that in the end it's all about the world and the lore, but it sounds nice to use a system designed to take that to it's fullest.

That being said, I do consider GMing Gloranthan adventures in GURPS when I'm comfortable enough with the world, even if it's just to see how it feels. The character creation mechanics indeed have more than enough detail to include the family history details and whatnot that are so common in Gloranthan RPGs. GURPS Thaumathology also has everything I need to delve into Rune Magic.

But I don't know, the Runequest character sheet is so amazing and beautiful. The books are so complete and the Bestiary is awesome. I think I would only fully migrate if Runequest didn't feel as good to play as it is to read. Not needing to convert all those monsters is also a plus, hahah.

[LordNigel]

On 12/17/2021 at 5:13 AM, soltakss said:

If you want a system to run HeroQuests then use the system you normally use to game with.

That is the whole point - You do not need a separate system for HeroQuesting, if you use RQG for gaming then use RQG for HeroQuesting, if you use QuestWorlds for gaming then use it for HeroQuesting, same for 13th Age Glorantha.

This is what I feel, even though I'm a complete beginner, so my opinion doesn't carry much weight.

IMO, from what I've been seeing, heroquests are just another type of quest, a very fascinating type that is particular to Glorantha. Thinking of it that way, it's more about choosing a myth and reenacting it as an adventure for the PCs who are going through this ritual, just like writing any other adventure. The system really doesn't change anything, since, IMHO, it doesn't need any sort of "minigame" mechanic for when the Runequest is ongoing. It's just another adventure which will make the characters relive famous mythical moments in the history of their world. It's a great way to help them get into the whole mythology of Glorantha.

My very amateurish 2 cents anyway.

[LordNigel]

19 hours ago, IronDuck said:

"Building HeroQuests" Was my version of the document outdated? Was the table of contents wrong? Was the index wrong? Let me search for "building"... Six hits and none of them have to deal with building HeroQuests. Or do I have to do a HeroQuest to see those parts of the book? 😉 There is a part involving the Crimson Bat, but I think that example is pretty bad and really wouldn't even be a HeroQuest in itself.

It's 3/10 book. Most of its good ideas are merely regurgitated from other books, but the work is sadly marred by its incomplete and bad ideas. A person is going to read it once and stick it on a shelf where it will sit as there is really no reason to ever consult it again.  

Honestly, as much as I do like constructive criticism, to me this is just straightforward mean and passive-aggressive sound (if not downright aggressive).

I haven't read the book yet, but that's beside the point. Heroquesting is obviously a touchy subject, after all the RPG has all these decades of history and people are still debating about the best way to actually make it happen in a campaign. It's clear that it's something that is much easier to realize through more narrative ways, like just telling about them, or using a system like Heroquest (Questworlds now, right?), than a crunchy and more detailed system like RQG. Nevertheless, precisely because it's such a hard topic, we should be encouraging people who have the courage of trying to help write more material about it not bashing them, IMHO.

The argument that many things derive from other books completely misses the point, in my view. Many people, like myself, haven't been reading all Glorantha related books from the last 30+ years, and it's very hard to do so. If someone took the time to actually compile those ideas, that's very helpful. Even if they're not revolutionary or even if they don't guarantee that creating a heroquest will become a breeze after reading it.

The whole problem of how heroquests seem to work, with simple people being able to survive them and legendary people failing them, shows that the idea never was to “crunch it”. Even though the percentile system of BRP allows for lucky crits in both direction (allowing those things to happen), that could still be problematic for coming-of-age rituals where, indeed, people should be not dying like flies. Notwithstanding, although I'm a Glorantha noob, I'm an experienced GM, and solving that seems simple enough. Either dying in a heroquest shouldn't kill the characters (or maybe they can't be directly killed by story related resources, only from intruders like the Lunars trying to ruin things), or maybe the quest should be made in a more narrative way, without rolling the dice too much (or at all). I like how King of Dragon Pass made them happen and it sounds like a plausible solution.

Anyway, @soltakss was one of the first to come and help me with this question. Everybody has been kind to me and to each other since I arrived, and that's how I'd like this discussion to remain. Good criticism is welcome, but should be done respectfully.

 

[LordNigel]

On 12/6/2021 at 11:53 PM, eknarfer said:

Bit late in my comment here. Thanks so much for the kind words. There are lots of knowledgeable fellows around here, and as you see they are all very helpful and responsive! Glad you are diving in on your own exploration of Glorantha. It is wonderful, and I am sure you will find all sorts of great things to make Glorantha your own. While sadly Dorastor is a rarity and an expensive one at this time (the great offerings from Third Edition remain on deck as far as what happens next with them) the initial book with the description of Dorastor and the evil cults, Cults of Terror, will give you a lot. Sounds like you grabbed the Cult Compendium, or were thinking about it, and the whole of Cults of Terror is in there. The reprints of Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror a great as well, but there are a few more cults in the Compendium. Of course, all those will become overtaken by events once the Gods of Glorantha comes out hopefully in 2022. But the other materials in Cults of Terror will continue to be classics and very informative, even as the corpus of the cults gets updated.

I should also plug J-M here. He is also very knowledgeable, but he just lets me talk a lot so it sounds like I know more!

Wishing you great Gloranthan adventures!

Wow! I can't believe I actually got a direct answer from you and didn't see it! Please forgive me!

I absolutely loved all the videos that I watched and it should be me thanking you guys for taking such a time to introduce people to Glorantha. The passion you both show during the video is very contagious and makes me want to devour all the books I can get my hands on!

And yes, I've grabbed Cult Compendium, but I still need to learn more about the ropes before that makes any sense to me. Let's see if I can enjoy it before it is overtaken by the next book, hahaha. Cults of Terror indeed is one of the materials I'm more curious about reading.

Thank you once again for your great contribution and for taking your time to answer my post! I'm looking forward to more material from both of you and also for the release of the book that is mentioned in your signature here!

 

[Martin Dick]

On 12/18/2021 at 4:59 AM, IronDuck said:

• It's 3/10 book. Most of its good ideas are merely regurgitated from other books, but the work is sadly marred by its incomplete and bad ideas. A person is going to read it once and stick it on a shelf where it will sit as there is really no reason to ever consult it again.  

 

Obviously YMMV, but personally I found that it was a valuable addition to the discussion on Heroquesting. Yes, unsurprisingly, it builds on other people's work and the endless discussions that have taken place on places like the Glorantha Digest over the last 30 plus years, but it's a mostly coherent (I don't think the topic lends itself to coherency, so mostly is about as good as it gets. I'm not sure even that the official rules will get past mostly, though I'm hoping) discussion of the topic and many of the elements can easily be adapted to a RQG campaign.

I've read it through twice and looked in to it several times while writing stuff. And it has definitely given me food for thought. I think the price was money well-spent. Overall, I would give it an 8 out of 10 as a product and a 7 out of 10 as a set of HeroQuesting rules, but for me only an official set of rules for HQs can get above a 7/10.

As well, if we're trying to make this a positive and constructive forum, then a little bit of respect for people like Simon who are making a great effort to contribute to the Jonstown Compendium probably wouldn't go astray.

PS. I liked the Crimson Bat HQ quite a lot, it's suitably over the top crazy.

 

[Rob Darvall]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:59 AM, IronDuck said:

You need a HeroQuest system that can do the following:

"HeroQuests generally fall into one or more categories— Explorations, Raids, Re-Enactments, Magic Roads,
Riddling/Wagering Contests and GodQuests" ( Secrets of Heroquesting p6). "Innovative HeroQuestors can turn a Re-Enactment HeroQuest into an Exploration HeroQuest by deviating from the HeroQuest at certain critical moments, thusturning a well-established route into an unexplored one," (Ibid p7)

and this is how you account for the power differences. Ritualised Short-form Re-Enactments are the safest. They are the initiation rituals etc (though as the Sex Pit demonstrates they are still dangerous, but so is fighting lions). Exploratory or Experimental (as others have called it) is the most dangerous. So send your party on the appropriate journey. Especially as you can scale up by throwing in antagonists and new paths as needed. This too is in Secrets. As are many ways of scaling a heroquest so that it:

• Allows a very skilled person like Kallyr Starbrow to fail at it (along with many other people that fail at doing the LBQ). 
• [Is] not too dangerous that people can use them for coming of age HeroQuests where massive casualties aren't expected or wanted.

The two are not equivalent events, as Secrets points out on many occasions.

As to Harmast, he gets the support of Hendrik in 414; 8 years before his first LBQ. He is already a storied and magically imbued man then. He's a LOOONG way from what seems implied by "a former simple farmer". It's very former. So much as to be irelevant by 422. That and he's the decendant of Rastaluf Vanak Spear. So not so simple originally either. Particularly as claiming his birthright has Hendrik initially sending a man to kill him (Hendrik and Harmast in History of the Heortling Peoples. Stafford, G. 2007 pp. 38-40).

So absent a cannonical (pace Andrew Logan Montgomery 🙂 ) set of rules we can adopt, exploit, and whinge about Secrets is a valuble document for many.

[Darius West]

On 6/11/2021 at 3:00 AM, LordNigel said:

I want to know to what extent I can use "classic" material at the table, basically. I assume that as far as lore goes, I can use whatever I want, because it's the info that counts. But what about classic adventures? Is it easy to just get some modern monster/NPC stats from current material and just follow the old books? Will I run into some deadly pitfalls?

In short, you won't run into many pitfalls.  While the game system has changed a bit over the years, any GM who is halfway competent will be able to look even at HQ material and be able to make a pretty fair fist of converting it to RQG.  In terms of the older material, you will find that some of the lore has since been superseded, but most of the info will still stand up.  RQG is different to RQ3 mainly in that it doesn't have a fatigue point system (which is a glaring omission from the RQG rules, and we all know how much a system of fatigue and encumbrance improved game play back in the day, and we all really cared about how every last coin weight measured up to our overall fatigue, and I am being intensely sarcastic), and of course the Skill Category Modifiers were calculated differently etc. The overall Basic Roleplaying Chaosium system hasn't changed too intensely from version to version, with HQ being the stand-out exception, bearing precious little resemblance to any of it, but it still comes with a conversion system attached in the errata sheet as far as I remember. 

Overall, don't get too hung up about differences.  Your Glorantha WILL vary.  You literally can't avoid it, so don't fret about it.  It is great that you want to provide your players with the most lore-authentic experience you can, and kudos to you for wanting to do that, but even Greg Stafford used to contradict himself in the lore occasionally, sometimes intentionally  to trickster-troll the overly lore devoted GMs I think, so avoid getting too anxious about it.  If you are even asking this question, you are likely already a bit over-prepared, and your players are in safe hands.  At the end of the day, what is important is that your players have fun, not that they get lore-dumped out of existence.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Darius West

[LordNigel]

12 hours ago, Darius West said:

Overall, don't get too hung up about differences.  Your Glorantha WILL vary.  You literally can't avoid it, so don't fret about it.  It is great that you want to provide your players with the most lore-authentic experience you can, and kudos to you for wanting to do that, but even Greg Stafford used to contradict himself in the lore occasionally, sometimes intentionally  to trickster-troll the overly lore devoted GMs I think, so avoid getting too anxious about it.  If you are even asking this question, you are likely already a bit over-prepared, and your players are in safe hands.  At the end of the day, what is important is that your players have fun, not that they get lore-dumped out of existence.

Thanks for the kind words!
Yeah, I tend to be a bit paranoid with the preparation process. I'm already experienced enough as a GM to know when to "wing it" and to not worry about creating and improvising details when needed. Being able to get a masterpiece such as Glorantha and making it my own is actually part of the fun, but I think that I owe it to Greg Stafford and everyone else involved to respect all the hard work and thought behind what we already have.

I think this is because I'm a worldbuilder myself and every time I read anything on the Glorantha Sourcebook, for example, I get dumbfounded at how deep it goes and how real it feels. Even the inconsistencies are realistic, because they represent different scholars and points of view. So even though that gives me a lot of leeway to intervene, I do want to help my players actually feel this creation firsthand. They already play through my creations when I invent other worlds and campaigns, so for Glorantha I want them to feel how unique it is.

Sure that when I start to run the adventures everything will be quite new to me and I will miss many opportunities to insert some amazing lore fragments, but hey, such is life. All the elements that I have to improvise will have to be written down and end up becoming part of "my" Glorantha, haha.

I just think it's very heartwarming to know that I can always count on this community if I ever have specific trouble dealing with all of this. I think that the seriousness and hospitality that I feel here are one of the best parts of learning about Glorantha in the end. There are serious hardcore fans for many games and worlds, but not all of them are patient and welcoming like this, haha.