Engizi X Lanbril = river smuggler?

[g33k]

Any advice?

I'm considering a river/thief sort of NPC for RQG.

Originally, I was thinking of just doing a normal Engizi worshiper & adding the "Thief" Occupation, but... well, he's at least as "thief-y" as "river-y" so Lanbril makes at least as much sense as Engizi.

The other option, of course, would be a Lanbril worshipper with the "boatman" (Fisher) Occupation.

The thing is, "cult" skills and "occupation" skills often synchronize, but "Engizi Thief" and "Lanbril Fisher" don't have much synchrony, so he'd be kinda half-assed at both.  So, I think I'll make him a few years older (six-ish years?) and give him all the goodies (skills) from both Cults and from both Occupations.


From a philosophical POV:  rivers flood, and "take" things.  I don't think Engizi minds (unless I've overlooked something).
Lanbril probably sees it as another chance to get one over on the Gods.

Does anyone see anything I'm missing (other than the upcoming Cults book, with the Lanbril entry)?
 

[Bill the barbarian]

5 minutes ago, g33k said:

Does anyone see anything I'm missing (other than the upcoming Cults book, with the Lanbril entry)?

One could even consider oddities to go with this. Obvious would be a Druluz but hey, a Newtling... a Dragonewt, a steam punk Mostali... an intelligent salmon... 

Sounds fantastic, and oh.. by the by... YOINK!

 

[g33k]

49 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

One could even consider oddities to go with this. Obvious would be a Druluz but hey, a Newtling... a Dragonewt, a steam punk Mostali... an intelligent salmon... 

I'm considering Durulz, and Newtling; also Lutroi, and Morokanth (they love marshes & rivers).
I leaning toward doing more than one non-human in his crew.

Maybe make him a Long-John-Silver type 1st Mate, with his own cadre of river-thieves within a larger crew of more-or-less legit sailors...

<edit:  I just realized I need to include a renegade Lhankor Mhy in the crew.  Wearing a beard, of course; and thus named... Spock>
 

 

49 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

...
and oh.. by the by... YOINK!

Have at, good sir; with my hearty blessings!

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by g33k
Spock

[Bill the barbarian]

7 minutes ago, g33k said:

I'm considering Durulz, and Newtling; also Lutroi, and Morokanth (they love marshes & rivers).
I leaning toward doing more than one non-human in his crew.

Maybe make him a Long-John-Silver type 1st Mate, with his own cadre of river-thieves within a larger crew of more-or-less legit sailors...

<edit:  I just realized I need to include a renegade Lhankor Mhy in the crew.  Wearing a beard, of course; and thus named... Spock>

The Merman are great example of considering oddities! I was also thinking undead... blame disney!

 

[Ironwall]

A smuggler to me sounds like a engizix merchant. 

[EricW]

If you wanted to be really cruel you could go with Krasht. A Krasht worshipper wouldn’t necessarily attack non chaotic PCs, they might even offer services, become a useful procurer of difficult items or information, seek to corrupt their judgement by being a false friend. Keep your enemies close and all that.

[Qizilbashwoman]

13 hours ago, EricW said:

If you wanted to be really cruel you could go with Krasht. A Krasht worshipper wouldn’t necessarily attack non chaotic PCs, they might even offer services, become a useful procurer of difficult items or information, seek to corrupt their judgement by being a false friend. Keep your enemies close and all that.

Krashtniks risk facing serious vengeance from water entities and the Devouring Mouth is about ... well, devouring. At minimum her Tongues will demand deeply fraught assassination work. Water divinities are a lot more active and have living servants, you're just setting yourself up as the threat of the week.

I suppose a Lunar affiliation could work, but you'd be beholden as an asset and have political officers and Lunar crew, not real piracy.

Better off finding a non-Chaos cult like a Lanbril-like one.

[g33k]

35 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

...

Better off finding a non-Chaos cult like a Lanbril-like one.

Yeah, I want this NPC to be less of a foe/rival; even down the road.  Obligatory hostility (even masked, for an eventual "reveal") isn't really where I want to take this NPC.

If they actively alienate him, that's different. 

[soltakss]

21 hours ago, g33k said:

Originally, I was thinking of just doing a normal Engizi worshiper & adding the "Thief" Occupation, but... well, he's at least as "thief-y" as "river-y" so Lanbril makes at least as much sense as Engizi.

A Lanbril cultist operating on the River could well also be an Engizi cultist. River Deities are often very accommodating, allowing worshippers of other cults to worship their river as well.

21 hours ago, g33k said:

From a philosophical POV:  rivers flood, and "take" things.  I don't think Engizi minds (unless I've overlooked something).
Lanbril probably sees it as another chance to get one over on the Gods.

I wouldn't overthink it at all/

Lanbril doesn't really care about other deities. River Deities basically say "If you want to operate on my river then join my cult".

So, it just works.

21 hours ago, g33k said:

Does anyone see anything I'm missing (other than the upcoming Cults book, with the Lanbril entry)?

No, I think it is good.

 

[g33k]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

... River Deities are often very accommodating ...

Fluid & adaptable are Watery hallmarks!

 

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

...

I wouldn't overthink it at all/

I need to think about it enough to not accidentally do something one of the deities will object to, with knock-on consequences to how one or the other acts in the general case.

And game-mechanically, I need to make sure it's neither a munchkinous mary-sue, nor gimped into uselessness trying to avoid the first.

 

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

... Lanbril doesn't really care about other deities ...

IMG, Lanbril felt looked-down-upon, and his origin-myths involved out-witting / out-planning / out-skill'ing the other Gods & showing them up; so in time, that's still his M.O.
He's into thievery in the general case, but especially loves it when it shows-up those stuck-up a--hole Gods.  "Filching" a worshiper is truly excellent !  Dual-cult'ing is halfway there...

[French Desperate WindChild]

For a npc creation  I don’t follow the rules :

i put what i want where i want 

Your guy may be able to boat and to sneak but not to swim (or ridiculously for a river person) for example

could be initiate of both cults or just lay member of one of them depending if they have or not runic spells 

And the rune pool may be 1 or 2 if they are weaker than pc

Be free, the point is more how you will use the tool than how you get it

[Ludo Bagman]

On 1/20/2022 at 10:55 PM, g33k said:

Does anyone see anything I'm missing?

As French Desperate WindChild said: You don't need to be so nitpicky for NPCs – just use the values that feel appropriate. Also note that the rules for more experienced player characters are just there to give older PCs a little edge, they are not there to build NPCs.

If you want to create a template (e.g. to get a feel of appropriate values, for a PC, or for a program), just take an occupation and swap some values, as the rulebook suggests: ("The gamemaster and players are encouraged to modify these occupations to fit their purposes.") For example, take the Fisher, reduce Swim and River Lore but add Conceal and Fast Talk.

Or you can check e.g. these pages:

http://www.backtobalazar.com/extended-character-professions-and-previous-experience-for-runequest-glorantha/

http://www.backtobalazar.com/runequest-glorantha-extended-profession-list/

http://www.backtobalazar.com/advanced-professions-for-runequest-glorantha/

and add appropriate values to the skills of an occupation (or just some of the skills listed).

[Darius West]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:55 AM, g33k said:

Any advice?

Smuggling on the Creek-Stream-River huh?  IMO Thief as written in RQG is a bad match as a skillset for a smuggler.  You'd want to have +30% in Conceal and either Boat or Shiphandling, and some other skills like Devise, Disguise, Evaluate, Intrigue, Swim as well as Hide and Sneak, and a weapon of some sort.  It sounds like good work for a duck 🤮 to me, especially as they can hide their goods on the hundreds of tiny islands in the Upland Marsh until it is opportune to bring them in.

The Creek-Stream-River is close to Dwarf Run (non-taxing), Sartar (taxing), the Dragonewts (non-taxing) Tarsh Exiles (taxing), Delecti (banditry), the Ducks (banditry/Sartar taxing), Beast Valley (tribute), Sun Country (taxing), Shadow Plateau (tribute), and Esrolia (taxing).  There are plenty of powers who will want to get at any mercantile trade on their waterway, and so plenty of duties, and plenty of opportunity to make a profit by avoiding tarriffs to undercut local merchants.  It is likely that the smugglers' natural enemies will be Issaries, Etyries, and Lokarnos worshippers unless they are cut into the action.

IMO I think Engizi is a better choice than Lanbril.  While Lanbril would have some nice advantages technically in terms of gizmos, Lanbril is more of a master heist thief than a smuggler.  While Divination Block is a mighty useful Rune Spell, there is likely to be more utility to be gained from Engizi's spell list.

Remember that going up-river is hard work, and it might actually be too hard if the distances are too great, forcing the smuggler to need to sell their boat and foot slog instead. 

The area around the upland marsh is perfect smuggling territory IMO.  Close to Delecti, Tarsh Exiles, Beast Valley, Sun Country, Sartar's various tribes, etc.  You really want an area with maximum borders to cross, as the more jurisdictions, the more smuggling potential as tariffs on goods in some places may not apply in others.

If you want to make smuggling an important part of your game, you will need to consider what is in high demand, where the tax checkpoints that need to be avoided are, how actively the smugglers are being sought by local authorities, and create a basic list of smuggling staples, which should include weapons, drugs, luxuries, and (in bad times) food.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Darius West

[Joerg]

River transport on the Creek-Stream River used to run from Karse past the Styx Grotto all the way into Dwarf Valley. There were a few EWF era cities on the river all the way up to the entrance of Snake Pipe Hollow.

The Closing reduced the amount of overseas goods shipped upriver from Karse. The Inhuman Occupation removed all humans and turned the portion of the River betwee the Creek confluence and the Stream confluence into Delecti's Upland Marsh, impassable for regular river bargre traffic - even for newtlings or durulz. Of the riverine cities south of the Crossline, only Karse survived into the Third Age.

The end of the Inhuman occupation started with the Lead Hills blocking the old course of the River, and Belintar digging the New River bed to connect the dammed-up River to the Lyksos River joining the Choralinthor Bay at Nochet. Elmalvo aka New Crystal City became a river port, and Duck Point founded by Sartar marked the end of the river barge route connecting the River to Nochet.

There are river barges operating on the Stream and on the Creek, but the Creek river transport doesn't connect to the River traffic from Duck Point. River traffic on the Stream connects a landing outside of Wilmskirk with Duck Point, across a few portages.

If there is any river barge traffic north of the confluence with the Creek, the volume of such transport cannot be significant. There are no significant human settlements on the river. Dwarf Mine may have a well-maintained river wharf

Neither the Exiles nor the Dwarf have any influence on the river, and the Aldachuri appear to shun its valley,too. Beast Valley may take an interest in river traffic. So may the Esrolian cities on the Lyksos and its tributary linking to the New River. Sun Dome County doesn't even get a whiff of river in their neighborhood. Only Sartar, Beast Valley, the Grazelands and Esrolia have a modicum of control over the river trade.

 

Smuggling through the Upland Marsh? If you have zombie boatmen, maybe.