Spells for Odayla

[Soccercalle]

I am thinking about giving some more available Rune Spells to Odayla or at least change them. The rules gives Odayla initiates Summon Small Air Elemental from Orlanth. I am thinking about switching that to Dark Walk. Seems like a more natural fit for a hunting god. Maybe with the small variation that the spell only works outdoor for Odayla initiates. Another way could be to give Odayla Air Elementals from Orlanth Thu and Dark Walk from Orlanth Adv.

I am also thinking about giving them the spirit spell Silence. Also a spell that seems logical for a hunter.

Any good reasons why I shouldn't? I guess that Dark Walk is something that is based on Orlanth stealing sandals from Kyger Litor (and not something that Odayla have). On the other hand, giving Odayla Air Elementals seems even more wrong. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Soccercalle

[Akhôrahil]

I don’t think it’s wrong for any elemental diety to have an Elemental spell for that element.

Dark Walk should work balance-wise - it’s a great spell, but Odayla isn’t exactly overpowered - but doesn’t have an obvious myth to explain it.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Odayla provides his arguably best spell, Bear's Strength, to Orlanth.  Orlanth returning the favor with a useful spell makes sense.

[svensson]

Orlanth and Odayla are exchanging spells directly from their primary Runic affiliations... Orlanth providing an Air/Storm spell and Odayla providing a Strength spell from both Air and Beast.

Where I have trouble with both Odayla and Yinkin is that neither provide either Draw Beast nor Sureshot... which in my mind are pretty automatic for Hunter deities. That's why I advise every hunter character generated in my campaign to go with Foundchild instead. They have a choice in the matter, so why not help them make the smart one?

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

That's why I advise every hunter character generated in my campaign to go with Foundchild

Logical.  OTOH, unlike Odayla and Yinkin, Foundchild isn't closely associated with Orlanth and friends, the primary cults of Sartar.  Making integration into typical adventurer groups much more difficult, depending on campaign style.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Rodney Dangerduck

[svensson]

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Logical.  OTOH, unlike Odayla and Yinkin, Foundchild isn't closely associated with Orlanth and friends, the primary cults of Sartar.  Making integration into typical adventurer groups much more difficult, depending on campaign style.

This is one of those situations where multiple cult membership makes sense to me.

For one thing, it provides access to damned useful spells.

The way I'd do it is have the character initiate into a cult at 16 like normal: Previously donated POW free of charge, 3 RP of Rune spells, 5 Spirit Magic spells, all the skills.

Then I'd allow them to initiate into a second cult as a 'young adult', but they pay for the initiation from their rolled POW stat [just one point], 1 RP of Rune spells, no Spirit Magic, and just Cult Lore, Meditate, and Worship for skills.

[Shiningbrow]

1 minute ago, svensson said:

This is one of those situations where multiple cult membership makes sense to me.

For one thing, it provides access to damned useful spells.

The way I'd do it is have the character initiate into a cult at 16 like normal: Previously donated POW free of charge, 3 RP of Rune spells, 5 Spirit Magic spells, all the skills.

Then I'd allow them to initiate into a second cult as a 'young adult', but they pay for the initiation from their rolled POW stat [just one point], 1 RP of Rune spells, no Spirit Magic, and just Cult Lore, Meditate, and Worship for skills.

I'd do similar - but allow them to Sac more POW for more RPs, and they can buy more spirit magic spells.

[Shiningbrow]

I wouldn't give Darkwalk. And I'm not sure about Summon Elemental either, but at least it fits better.

The myth of the Darkwalk doesn't fit with Yinkin. Shield does, as Orlanth often protected his younger brother.

Just because a spell is useful doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it. Otherwise, everyone would have Resurrect.

 

The bigger question here is - why don't they get Sureshot? (and, I'd let Vinga initiates have it too, cos it's part of her mythology).

 

Silence is a no-brainer, and surprising they don't have it automatically. Not that it really matters, as they can buy it from Foundchild.

 

[Akhôrahil]

5 hours ago, svensson said:

Where I have trouble with both Odayla and Yinkin is that neither provide either Draw Beast nor Sureshot... which in my mind are pretty automatic for Hunter deities.

Hunter-Prey Link would be a good one too, and is a perfect mythical fit.

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

I wouldn't give Darkwalk. And I'm not sure about Summon Elemental either, but at least it fits better.

The myth of the Darkwalk doesn't fit with Yinkin. Shield does, as Orlanth often protected his younger brother.

Just because a spell is useful doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it. Otherwise, everyone would have Resurrect.

 

The bigger question here is - why don't they get Sureshot? (and, I'd let Vinga initiates have it too, cos it's part of her mythology).

 

Silence is a no-brainer, and surprising they don't have it automatically. Not that it really matters, as they can buy it from Foundchild.

 

If you are an Odayla or Yinkin worshiper, getting Dark Walk is as simple as initiating into Orlanth. Also a no-brainer.

[svensson]

I should also point out that when a player wants to initiate into a two cults, I warn them that BOTH cults will be watching them to make sure they observe all the strictures and holy days.

And in my campaigns the cults ought to be related and their strictures must not conflict. A character who wants to initiate into Waha and Chalana Arroy is right out for several reasons, both mythical and practical. Ditto someone who wants to initiate into widely disparate cults... Orlanth and Wakaza would be a poor fit, for example.

Edited June 30, 2022 by svensson

[Akhôrahil]

4 minutes ago, svensson said:

If you are an Odayla or Yinkin worshiper, getting Dark Walk is as simple as initiating into Orlanth. Also a no-brainer.

Although I do think a stealth spell would make a ton of sense for Yinkin.

[Akhôrahil]

Just now, svensson said:

I should also point out that when a player wants to initiate into a two cults, I warn then that BOTH cults will be watching them to make sure they observe all the strictures and holy days.

My players have noticed that the Yinkin cult goes very easy on you. 🙂

[Shiningbrow]

39 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Hunter-Prey Link would be a good one too, and is a perfect mythical fit.

Except it seems to do the exact opposite of what most hunters want..

I expected it to create a link so that the hunter would never lose the prey... but no, the hunters can never catch the prey...

 

14 minutes ago, svensson said:

If you are an Odayla or Yinkin worshiper, getting Dark Walk is as simple as initiating into Orlanth. Also a no-brainer.

No-brainer, but a Yes-POWer 🤪

 

As for spells, what about Hurling - each RP multiplies your throwing range by x5. (doesn't work on bows though..)

15 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Although I do think a stealth spell would make a ton of sense for Yinkin.

Chameleon?

[Jeff]

Odayla doesn't have Darkwalk. He's a bear, not a troll. 

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Chameleon?

I’m thinking shadows or darkness, not changing colours. 🙂 Dark Walk would be good as far as the effects go, but not the lore and origins.

[French Desperate WindChild]

6 hours ago, svensson said:

Where I have trouble with both Odayla and Yinkin is that neither provide either Draw Beast nor Sureshot... which in my mind are pretty automatic for Hunter deities.

however... I would have trouble to see any bear or cat using a bow to hunt 😛

Draw beast may be arguable but I consider that the true - power is to cheat/charm/lie : when beasts cheat men everyone knows  that is a cheat - morokanth power - why not the reverse ?  

I would probably accept that some spirit society based on serpent (Kaa power...sssssss) or friend provides the spell. But for me, Bear is too strong and Cat too mischievous (if little) or too strong (if big) to not be considered as dangerous by any prey.

[Russ Massey]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Odayla doesn't have Darkwalk. He's a bear, not a troll. 

Unlike Orlanth of course :)   (Yeah, I know, Orlanth is a dirty little thief, and Odayla is honest and good)

[radmonger]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Odayla doesn't have Darkwalk. He's a bear, not a troll. 

Which brings up the question of what is the social role of the Odayla _rune cult_ in Sartarite society? How does that work with clans, tribes and cities?

For example, the Chalana Arroy rune cult is clearly one of professional health workers. Few, if any, clans are going to be able to support a dedicated healing temple by itself. Instead, you must leave your clan, perhaps serve at a temple hospital in the city. And then when you've learned your magic, you maybe go back to where you came from and use all that magic to support the community. You could have instead have stayed in the clan and learnt healing magic from Ernalda that was very nearly as good, but that wasn't the path you chose. And now you are on the Ring, because you are the best at what you do.

It seems Odayla _isn't_ actually that kind of professional god. You don't  go apprentice to the Odaylan hunters guild and get your hunting license. Perhaps it's more that, if you are a bearwalker, hunting is the default choice of profession. It's not that most hunters are Odaylans, but most Odaylans are hunters. If your great-grandfather was a bear, you have no mythic and cultural support for farming, herding or crafting. So it is either hunt or fish. Which just so happen to be the professions available to hsunchen hunter-gatherers. 

Once you have the skills of a hunter, you can wander widely across the land. While doing so, you can pick up cult magic from wherever you visit. Perhaps from more hunting-oriented clans, or exotic locations that serve as natural temples. And, unlike say Foundchild, those rune spells can be renewed at your local temple when you return.

There are doubtless better cults for hunters; that doesn't matter because they are not available options in Sartarite society. Game hunting is a secondary or tertiary food source at best, it is not something Sartar shapes it's myths around. If you are the best hunter in the clan, then that is only one step up from being the best at picking up sticks.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by radmonger

[Akhôrahil]

25 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Which brings up the question of what is the social role of the Odayla _rune cult_ in Sartarite society? How does that work with clans, tribes and cities?

My reading is that Odaylans are the, as HW would have it, "deep hunters", as well as antisocial individuals. A hunter worshiping Orlanth probably goes home to the hearth every day (or every other day at worst). The Odaylan might be out all season, returning with fur and meat only occasionally. This allows them to strike out much further, but also distances them from society (which is probably a feature and not a bug as far as most Odaylans are concerned).

North American fur trappers and mountain men might be a good comparison.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[svensson]

Odaylas are the 'fur trapper /mountain men' of Orlanthi society. They're the ones that have a cabin in the boonies because they simply don't like all the fuss and bother at the tula. And cities? Fuhgeddabahit! But they're strong, tough, and know corners of the clan's territory that even the thanes don't know.

Yinkins are more social... on THEIR terms. They tend to be solitary but get along with people well enough in small to medium doses. But leave the door open. They're not the guy to spend all year on the steading. They walk in and out of their family's lives on a whim.

Foundchild hunters are more tribal /primitive /nomadic in outlook. They work to feed the clan and expect a certain amount of respect for the hard work they do.

Edited June 30, 2022 by svensson

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

38 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Which brings up the question of what is the social role of the Odayla _rune cult_ in Sartarite society? How does that work with clans, tribes and cities?

My understanding is that they are a minor deity so they are low cost (low percent of Unconscious Life) and have relatively easy multi-cult initiation with at least one major member of their pantheon who is associated with the cult. My understanding is that most minor deities fit into this model. 

[radmonger]

3 minutes ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

My understanding is that they are a minor deity so they are low cost (low percent of Unconscious Life) and have relatively easy multi-cult initiation with at least one major member of their pantheon who is associated with the cult. My understanding is that most minor deities fit into this model. 

The RQ:G rules cover three types of cults; spirit cults, rune cults and sub-cults. I think what you are talking about is the latter; Odayla as a sub-cult. I would agree that that is common. In rules terms, you initiate to the Orlanth rune cult at an Orlanth temple under supervision of an Orlanth priest,. Then you use the Rune Pool awakened by that initiation to cast spells associated with Orlanth's brother Odayla. The maximum size of that Rune Pool is set by your CHA statistic, reflecting the limit where your Unconcious Life is fully busy maintaining your existing mythic associations and so you can't develop new ones

The apparent contradiction is that RQ:G has Odayla explicitly listed as a rune cult; a primary source of initiation with it's own associated gods. As I understand it, that implies that Odayla is the primary cult of some individuals. I think the key insight is that those people are the wide ranging deep hunters, the 'mountain men'. If so, they don't need to be living close together, or even talk to each other, to be a magically effective community.

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, radmonger said:

If so, they don't need to be living close together, or even talk to each other, to be a magically effective community.

My interpretation is that a lot of ”worship” goes on at holy sites out in the wilds. The hunters know about them, and you’re expected to help maintain them. They don’t rise even to the level of shrines, and a lot of the Worship is individual.

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

Yinkins are more social... on THEIR terms. They tend to be solitary but get along with people well enough in small to medium doses. But leave the door open. They're not the guy to spend all year on the steading. They walk in and out of their family's lives on a whim.

Sounds like a cat...