Sun Dragon Cult - Sprout Arms

[Erol of Backford]

So a PC from Kralori who is a member of the Path of Immanent Mystery befriends Windwhistler and somehow manages to join the Sun Dragon Cult after a long period of philosophical discourse and training, questing, etc. gains use two (2) castings of the Magic Arms spell and some extension points.... (run with it for MGF discussion purposes)

Would the now four (4) armed character be able to train as per normal skills, sword attack and parry, shield use, for all four arms through self training assuming there are no four (4) armed weapon masters? (does anyone know where they might find a neutral or favorable trainer in the Heortland or Pavis with multiple arms that isn't chaos tainted)?

Is there a hit points per location table that would cover this temporarily four (4) armed humanoid? Also how are the additional arms figured into melee and missile locations tables?

What sort of Hero Questing would make this even more interesting and what sort of powers could be gained?

I realize its a stretch but the characters are supposed to be heroes or part of a hero band...

  

[PhilHibbs]

Same HP calculation, but you would need a new hit location chart. If you feel that as the hit point mass is now distributed over a larger area and should be slightly lower, then you probably would also need to increase the SIZ slightly to account for the increased body mass of extra arms and the two should exactly balance out.

I don't see why a person who sprouts extra arms has to become heavier. Keep it simple. Unless they go for a dozen extra arms maybe.

Edited October 28, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[French Desperate WindChild]

My own opinion only 🙂

 

location :

unfortunately the two "standard arms" get 6 points in the location table, hard to split in 4 so I would say:

don't change anything, roll as usual, if it is right arm, then roll a d2 : 1 the true one, 2 the draconic one. Same for left arm

hp:

no change, the two new arms get the same hp than the others. No change too in the total

arms activities :

yes they can be trained... well experienced only, except if the arms can "stay" for a season. there is no technical reason  (in teh rule) for a master to not train a dwarf like a human, even if the size is not the same (so the movement may be a little different) so there is no reason to train the second left arm (there is no "technics" in rqg so there is no question to define a "4 arms technic" as there is no "2arms technic", they are just seen as different arms).

The issue i would play is more roleplay. Are you a chaotic monster ? Is it the mark of the dragon ? I fear/hate the dragons, they eat my family.

Note that my questions will not be asked all the time to the pc. Sometimes they will be answered directly by the master and their buller friends

And the pc is kralori... so weird in a not east setting.

(yes my glorantha is not open minded)

heroquesting :

first the same than a two arms person.

then, in addition, something that transform your 2 magical arms into natural arms (aka the pc has four arms all the time, no needs of magic)

But having 2 magical arms is better to demonstrate you are a human with magic (see .. hop only 2 arms now) than having 4 arms like any chaotic monster with this feature...

 

11 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

RuneQuest mechanics alert! Maybe move thread to other forum?

true !

[Revilo Divad Of Dyoll]

I would not recalculate hit points, since they haven't made a permanent change to his body (even with extension, the arms are still a temporary reality).  In other words, I would just add hit locations for two news arms with the same hit points as his regular arms.  (And hits against the arms could disable the arms but would not count against total hit points.  And would bleed green smoke, but that's just me).  In terms of hit locations, I can't think of any 4-armed, two legged creatures, but you could make it 1-4/5-8/9-10/11/12-13/14-15/16-17/18-19/20 on the logic that the extra arms would help block hits to the abdomen and head.  If that is too unbalancing, I would just take the extra points from the legs (1-3/4-6/7-9/10/11-12/13-14/15-16/17-18/19-20).

 

And yes, he could certainly train in skills with the new arms (although probably not through training with a teacher).

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Revilo Divad Of Dyoll said:

(And hits against the arms could disable the arms but would not count against total hit points.  And would bleed green smoke, but that's just me).

I think they would be physical arms made of bone and muscle, capable of sensation including pain and shock. They aren't glowing phantom arms made of sunlight. It's "Sprout Arms", not "Phantom Arms".

[Shiningbrow]

10 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

It's "Sprout Arms", not "Phantom Arms".

So, they should be either green and leafy, or long-ish pale green tendrils with little leaves at one end, and the roots at the other.

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would the now four (4) armed character be able to train as per normal skills, sword attack and parry, shield use, for all four arms through self training assuming there are no four (4) armed weapon masters? (does anyone know where they might find a neutral or favorable trainer in the Heortland or Pavis with multiple arms that isn't chaos tainted)?

Just use normal weapon skills.

There is no need to have an ability to use them with four arms. In my opinion, the spell lets you coordinate the arms appropriately.

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is there a hit points per location table that would cover this temporarily four (4) armed humanoid? 

Having extra arms doesn't give you more HPs, or change the HPs of your current arms. You just get more arms. So, use the normal table.

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also how are the additional arms figured into melee and missile locations tables?

You could use a Wind Child Hit Location but change wings to arms.

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What sort of Hero Questing would make this even more interesting and what sort of powers could be gained?

You could get Heroic Casting of the spell, using Magic Points instead of Rune Points to cast them.

Maybe the arms could become permanent, then you could use Sprout Arms to get six arms.

You could make the arms look confusing to gain some kind of penalty for opponents parrying them.

[jajagappa]

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is there a hit points per location table that would cover this temporarily four (4) armed humanoid? Also how are the additional arms figured into melee and missile locations tables?

I'd use one of two options.

1) Modify the winged humanoid hit location table (Bestiary p.10)

• Location D20 HP
• Right Leg 01–03 5
• Left Leg 04–06 5
• Abdomen 07–09 5
• Chest 10 6
• Lower Right Arm 11–12 4
• Lower Left Arm 13–14 4
• Upper Right Arm 15-16 4
• Upper Left Arm 17–18 4
• Head 19–20 5

2) Split the arm hit locations between the lower and upper (and assume the upper will generally take more damage)

• Location D20 HP
• Right Leg 01–04 5
• Left Leg 05–08 5
• Abdomen 09–11 5
• Chest 12 6
• Lower Right Arm 13 4
• Lower Left Arm 14 4
• Upper Right Arm 15-16 4
• Upper Left Arm 17–18 4
• Head 19–20 5

 

[Erol of Backford]

All good input. I like the idea the lower arm is hit less similar to the chest being hit more by a missile fire...

The relation to the Sun Dragon, joining the cult, befriending Windwhistler - what does Windwhistler desire, how might he be helped besides cleaning up his dwelling space?

Are there quests he might wish the PC's to undertake?

There are notes that he is scouting Blind King's Hill looking for Sun pantheon ruins there, including an old Sun Dragon shrine (Could there be a lost Gold Wheel Dancer about?)

There are also some interesting ties/involvement to the NPC's of Sun County (that are likely not canon) with Windwhistler after 1621 in MOB's writings but what about say 1600-1610 before the Lunars?

Would he visit the Sun Dome and why in Prax and in Sartar? Does he wish to visit Tink and have an exchange there and why, for what information/item(s) is he looking?

The Cult Compendium states that the Sun Dragon Cult has only one member outside Kralorela, where is it based there and is it a subcult of the Path of Immanent Mystery or are they associate cults?

The PC in question is from Kralorela/Lur Nop, who is a member of the Path of Immanent Mystery but maybe we just develop the Sun Dragon Cult unless its in a zine somewhere?.

Any Dragonewts in the Rubble and how would they be associated with Windwhistler if at all? There is a chance to meet them 53-64 in the Big Grazing but are there any known printed encounters in the Rubble? They attack the Cradle with the Lunars...

Does anyone know if this is Windwhistler with arms and legs?

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does anyone know if this is Windwhistler with arms and legs?

IMO cannot be - Wind Whistler would retain his wings. And he would outsize a Lord dragonewt (aka winged priest stage).

[Erol of Backford]

The spell is under Sun Dragon so I assume they be more like Dragonewt arms with scales?

22 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

green and leafy, or longish pale green tendrils with little leaves at one end, and the roots at the other

Possibly unrelated, the illustration is below the Sun Dragon Cult write up in the Compendium... good point as to the wings not showing but with the reptilian look and greenish color I thought it may be Windwhistler... the weapon looking claws on the hand are interesting to note, fighting claws maybe?

So what about the other questions, anything in Kralorela on the Sun Dragon? Should we assume Sun Dragon is somewhat like Lodri in Prax being followed by the Agimori, a small number but always there?

Would the Cult if developed, be like a combination of Yelm and Path of Immanent Mystery, that any "Dragon" temples would have Sun Dragon shrines?

[Godlearner]

38 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

So what about the other questions, anything in Kralorela on the Sun Dragon? Should we assume Sun Dragon is somewhat like Lodri in Prax being followed by the Agimori, a small number but always there?

According to Jeff, there are multiple Draconic humanoids, in addition to Dragonewts. There maybe Sun Dragon worship thee.

[Erol of Backford]

Would the Slarges be considered Draconic as to me they'd be closer to dragons and the Sun Dragon (besides color) than a Dragonewt would, personally speaking.

Has anyone encountered Slarges in Genertela? I keep thinking they may be setting up a colony in Sog's Ruins but have had issues with the Goatmen therein?

[Godlearner]

9 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Has anyone encountered Slarges in Genertela?

They are said to exist in Pamaltela. There was a reference to a crocodile like people in Western(?) Genertela

[Erol of Backford]

Maybe same thing. Curious if they are considered Draconic and maybe have ties to the Sun Dragon or Associate Cults. Possibly they did but lost contact or ceased worship?

[French Desperate WindChild]

22 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I thought it may be Windwhistler

I think windwhistler is a wyrm so really bigger (10 -30m? ), without arms, with wings, no cloth, etc... a "non initiate" would see him as a "dragon" in my opinion

 

22 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

the weapon looking claws on the hand are interesting to note, fighting claws maybe?

yes that's my idea too

 

for the rest, kralorela, slarge, etc... no enough knowledge to say anything 😛

 

[soltakss]

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

The relation to the Sun Dragon, joining the cult, befriending Windwhistler - what does Windwhistler desire, how might he be helped besides cleaning up his dwelling space?

He might want the Dragons to be friends with Pavis, so Adventurers could rediscover the lost draconic secrets of Pavis, or discover new ones.

They could help the Dragonewts of the Bug Rubble, maybe helping them establish draconic eggs in their temple, so they can be reborn there instead of having to trek back from Dragon Pass upon death.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Are there quests he might wish the PC's to undertake?

Dragon friendship, recovering lost knowledge, awakening the Inner Dragon, lots of things to be playing around with.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

There are notes that he is scouting Blind King's Hill looking for Sun pantheon ruins there, including an old Sun Dragon shrine (Could there be a lost Gold Wheel Dancer about?)

There are also some interesting ties/involvement to the NPC's of Sun County (that are likely not canon) with Windwhistler after 1621 in MOB's writings but what about say 1600-1610 before the Lunars?

There are lots of stories about what WindWhistler was doing. As a GM, take them and run with them to create a narrative.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Would he visit the Sun Dome and why in Prax and in Sartar? Does he wish to visit Tink and have an exchange there and why, for what information/item(s) is he looking?

Not necessarily the Sun Dome. However, I had the Old Sun Dome Temple be a site where Yamsur's Chariot was trapped in a portal to the Dragonkill, allowing Adventurers to HeroQuest to the Dragonkill and to restore chariot-worship to the Sun Domers.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

The Cult Compendium states that the Sun Dragon Cult has only one member outside Kralorela, where is it based there and is it a subcult of the Path of Immanent Mystery or are they associate cults?

That is WindWhistler.

They are probably Associate Cults.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

The PC in question is from Kralorela/Lur Nop, who is a member of the Path of Immanent Mystery but maybe we just develop the Sun Dragon Cult unless its in a zine somewhere?.

Sun Dragon is written up on p132 of the Cult Compendium. It grants Magical Arms and Radiance.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Any Dragonewts in the Rubble and how would they be associated with Windwhistler if at all? There is a chance to meet them 53-64 in the Big Grazing but are there any known printed encounters in the Rubble? They attack the Cradle with the Lunars...

There is a Dragonewt Temple in the Big Rubble, but it's denizens are reborn in Dragon Pass and have to return to the Temple.

They hunt in the Big Grazing, treating it like the Huntlands around Dragon's Eye in Dragon Pass.

Sure, they sided with the Lunars against the Cradle. In my opinion, the Lunars are the heirs of Nysalor, who also had Dragonewt Mercenaries after Nysalor curse the Dragons. The Lunars know the same secrets, so hire Dragonewts. The Red Emperor also knows the secrets of the Dragon Emperor and uses those to control Dragonewts Mercenaries, again in my opinion.

On 10/29/2022 at 3:26 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Does anyone know if this is Windwhistler with arms and legs?

Probably not, as Joerg pointed out, WindWhistler has wings.

That is from the Sun Dragon writeup, so you probably have seen the cult.

 

[Erol of Backford]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Kralorela, where is it based there

Sorry, was looking for where in Kralorela would the Sun Dragons be. Thanks!