God/Cult of Metal workers!

[CHANT]

🙂Hi "black smiths"!?! or"Red, green,which ever floats the boat.

I guess that they could all more or less come in the "Orlanthi family"

"Banga God(dess) of small gusts" & bellows/forges !!

[ZedAlpha]

What?

[ZedAlpha]

Hi, by the way, welcome to the forums, but what?

[CHANT]

Work in progress! I just thought that there should be some metal crafter Gods !?! 

[Richard S.]

There is one, Gustbran, god of smiths (mostly bronze but any will do) and one of the Lowfires. I think he might cover pottery and other similar kiln-based crafts as well but I'm not sure. His cult is largely organized into guilds like this one. There's not really any other dedicated metalworking gods, though most every elemental cult has some means of enchanting their own metals of course. Blacksmithing with iron is a secret of the Mostali and a few specialists who stole it from them.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

Blacksmithing with iron is a secret of the Mostali and a few specialists who stole it from them.

Including the Third Eye Blue.

[Squaredeal Sten]

As far as I know Gustbran is also the or a god of bakers as well as potters.  Presumsbly also of glassblowers, since W&E refers to Clearwine Bkue glassware.  Probably also a god of anyone who smelts ore.

Hiwever in a related train of thought, Asrelia would be the goddess of miners.

[Richard S.]

6 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Hiwever in a related train of thought, Asrelia would be the goddess of miners.

Yeah, CoR;EG talks some about that. Interestingly it seems like most miners are only lay members though, her initiates are just the ones who run the mines.

Speaking of other smithing related gods, Caladra & Aurelion are probably pretty important as the main source of coal, though I think wood is still the main fuel for smiths.

[ZedAlpha]

It does make sense to me that a lot of other cultures might have their own specific gods of smithing (see Tepekos in Six Ages), but post-Dawn it appears that Gustbran is the most widespread one (in Genertela, at least).

[Erol of Backford]

Maybe Lodri as a troll blacksmith slave... and of course Inginew Redson who most of us will still use (YGWV).

[Squaredeal Sten]

17 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Yeah, CoR;EG talks some about that. Interestingly it seems like most miners are only lay members though, her initiates are just the ones who run the mines.

Speaking of other smithing related gods, Caladra & Aurelion are probably pretty important as the main source of coal, though I think wood is still the main fuel for smiths.

Actually charcoal.  It's easier to get and keep a hot fire with charcoal and a bellows than with wood.  Wood just flames up, plenty of heat but its hard to keep peak heat that way.  Wood coals are nice and stable but not the concentrated lumps of carbon that mineral coal is.  Nevertheless the pre industial RW ironworkers used charcoal.  Contributing to deforestation, so the archaeologists say.  Using mineral coal for a forge is probably a post Bronze Age thing, but its canon for Glorantha.  

IMG using coal coke is one of the Mostali secrets of iron smelting and  ironworking.  They buy firebone but don't tell the lesser races how they process and use it.  

 

[ZedAlpha]

6 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

IMG using coal coke is one of the Mostali secrets of iron smelting and  ironworking.  They buy firebone but don't tell the lesser races how they process and use it. 

Ooh, I'm stealing that for my upcoming Caladraland game. In fact, given the (relatively) close relationship between the Mostali and Caladralanders, I do like the idea that while Caladraland might be metal-poor, they know a bit more about metallurgy thanks to their fire gods and the nearby dwarves of Gemborg.

[Squaredeal Sten]

47 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

Ooh, I'm stealing that for my upcoming Caladraland game. In fact, given the (relatively) close relationship between the Mostali and Caladralanders, I do like the idea that while Caladraland might be metal-poor, they know a bit more about metallurgy thanks to their fire gods and the nearby dwarves of Gemborg.

Maybe not the Calandralanders in general.  Mostali hold tightly to their best secrets. I'd bet you have to do them a big favor to get bronzeworking training.  And they won't teach ironworking. Third Eye Blue may have tricked them but would they fall for that again? /  I am not sure that Caladraland should be especially metal poor.  I am not sure where Esrolia's copper comes from, but the Esrolians export copper, per Guide to Glorantha.   Are there any canon specifics about thise mines?

But with the volcanoes Caladraland  should be obsidian rich.  /  Have you considered Caladraland trades obsidian with the dragonewts, possibly via Sartarite middlemen?  That is a good Issaries adventure seed.  Dragonewts need klanths!

 

[ZedAlpha]

Another good idea.

[Richard S.]

In their old writeup C&A actually had Mostal as an associate cult, which somehow granted them a rune spell (diamond edge). The flavor was that the dwarves were thankful to the twins for creating diamond, and were also the primary users of earthblood and firebone, mortals preferring the lowfires.

[John Biles]

In the Heroquest era, Pella was goddess of pottery, one of Ernalda's handmaidens.  Now she's no longer directly worshipped like a lot of minor gods and goddesses.

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

Ooh, I'm stealing that for my upcoming Caladraland game. In fact, given the (relatively) close relationship between the Mostali and Caladralanders, I do like the idea that while Caladraland might be metal-poor, they know a bit more about metallurgy thanks to their fire gods and the nearby dwarves of Gemborg.

There is no need based in the Real World to say Caladraland HAS to be metal poor.

I am not a geologist, have just read a couple of geology textbooks.  But wikipedia indicates that the "native copper" deposits of Michigan were /are  associated with basalt intrusions into sandstone and other sedimentary rock.  Which sounds to me like vulcanism.  (Native metals means metals found in fairly pure form, rather than as compounds with non-metallic elements.)

They have mostly been mined out, but for thousands of years were mined by Native Americans with stone age methods.  And they produced about 5 million metric tones in historic times.

" In Keweenaw County, the fissure lodes were nearly vertical mineralized zones with strike nearly perpendicular to that of the enclosing basalts and conglomerates. In Ontonagon County, by contrast, the fissures had strikes nearly parallel to, and dips slightly steeper than, the surrounding beds.

The miners sometimes found masses of native copper up to hundreds of tons. To extract a single mass of copper, miners could spend months chiseling it into pieces small enough to hoist out of the mine. Although they were pure copper, removing the masses took a great deal of effort, and was sometimes not even profitable."

But in the old world mining copper sulfide ores and smelting the copper goes back to 5,000 BCE.

A google search also yields

" Igneous Processes: Copper can be found in igneous rocks such as granites, porphyries, and volcanic rocks. When magma, molten rock beneath the Earth's surface, intrudes into the crust, it can carry copper-rich fluids that crystallize and form copper ore minerals. "

 Again this "intrusion into the crust" describes vulcanism.

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[ZedAlpha]

oh hell, that's all a very good point. And on a more mythic-focused end, Asrelia is goddess of mining, and was Lodril's first lover, so it might make sense that his country is actually pretty metal-rich. And that also works with the close-er relationship with the Mostali, too.

huh, maybe there's a buttload of copper and bronze just...around everywhere? Which would mean that the cults of Gustbran and Asrelia are probably a lot more widespread and powerful than they would be elsewhere

[g33k]

18 hours ago, CHANT said:

Work in progress! I just thought that there should be some metal crafter Gods !?! 

Gustbran is the primary redsmith/whitesmith/etc god, and for most/all of the crafts that involve fires hotter than the typical oven (pottery, glassblowing, etc).
Asrelia is also relevant, as the holder of "treasures of the Earth."

Iron / blacksmithing is a non-Gustbran exception (Iron is Kind Of A Big Deal in Glorantha):  a Mostali secret (known also to Humakt).  Because Iron is "Death Metal," the Rune Metal of Death, Humakt could be another appropriate God (besides Mostal) for blacksmiths, but is NOT:  Humakti blacksmiths work strictly in-Cult, supporting their Rune Lords and temple armories, and generally do not work out-Cult.

Three Eye Blue stole the secret from the Mostali; but they hold the secret close, not further disseminating it.

They do however sell Iron goods, performing blacksmith services out-Cult, and are likely where most non-Humakti (in central Genertela) go for blacksmithery.
 

[Sir_Godspeed]

I am completely blanking, but doesn't Dara Happa have some gods that are associated with working gold or tin? I mean, they obviously are associated with those metals just in general, but I thought that some of them were involved in shaping it as well. I might VERY WELL be fabulating.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I am completely blanking, but doesn't Dara Happa have some gods that are associated with working gold or tin? I mean, they obviously are associated with those metals just in general, but I thought that some of them were involved in shaping it as well. I might VERY WELL be fabulating.

There are a number of cults with Enchant Gold (Yelm, Yelmalio?) and Enchant Tin (Shargash/Tolat, others), but that doesn't necessarily mean they have magic for metalworkers.

Lodril (or Turos) is the god of craftsmen as well as workers in general, and his lowfire son Gustbran might be available through his cult.

[Richard S.]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I am completely blanking, but doesn't Dara Happa have some gods that are associated with working gold or tin? I mean, they obviously are associated with those metals just in general, but I thought that some of them were involved in shaping it as well. I might VERY WELL be fabulating.

Lokarnos has Coin Wheel, maybe you're thinking of that?

Edited October 10, 2023 by Richard S.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

Lolarnos has Coin Wheel, maybe you're thinking of that?

That might be it.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:28 AM, jajagappa said:

Including the Third Eye Blue.

And humakti I think

[g33k]

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

And humakti I think

I do not think the smiths of Humakt needed to steal the secrets.
Iron is the metal of Death:  Humakt knows its secrets!