New to BRP

[Heimdallsgothi]

Youd figure after 30 years the game would have a more comprehensive bestiary. As it is, there is a lot of duplication between basic creatures and the creatures in the core book.

[Atgxtg]

Youd figure after 30 years the game would have a more comprehensive bestiary. As it is, there is a lot of duplication between basic creatures and the creatures in the core book.

Well, the game really hasn't been very active for most of those 30+ years. It stared off well, but RQ3 resulted in them going over a lot of old ground, with lisended settings like Stromberinger and CoC adding some setting specfic nasties.

But creatively the system was stuck in limbo for two decades.

[Mankcam]

Oh, I forgot to throw in the 'Ye Booke of Monstres' (both volumes) from the mid 1990s, they were great.

By the way, is the 'Malleus Monstorum' essientially a compiled reprint of these?

There are plenty of critters between all these supplements, although a compendium of all of them would be a worthy purchase. Especially if it includes some of the optional stats as well (such as SR and Hit Locations for those who prefer RQ).

I have only found the system lacking on occasion, but have managed to create stats up using other creatures as a guideline. It hasn't really been such a big deal, but a big book of critters covering all published creatures and more would be a nice addition to the book shelf.

[Heimdallsgothi]

May have to pick up the Rome book and rewatch Spartacus-Blood and Sand

[SDLeary]

Oh, I forgot to throw in the 'Ye Booke of Monstres' (both volumes) from the mid 1990s, they were great.

By the way, is the 'Malleus Monstorum' essientially a compiled reprint of these?

Yes, somewhat revised, with beasties from other supplements IIRC. The book tips the scales at just under 300 pages.

SDLeary

[threedeesix]

For those who want a gaming experience more like D&D, there is Classic Fantasy. But, I think that sort of defeats the purpose of playing BRP. I mean, if somebody wants things to be more like another game, they could just play another game. BRP/RQ is enjoyable in part becuase combat is so leathal and it forces players to trhink.

I just want to point out that the purpose of Classic Fantasy was not to make BRP more like D&D, but to make D&D more like BRP. Thats a big difference if you think about it.

There are classes; which are just professions with special abilities, many of which are from the BGB.

There is Alignment; which is just a rewording of Alligence. However set up for Good, Neutral, and Evil.

There are more hit points than normal for the PCs; however using the option of hit points equal to SIZ+CON and not divided, so again, its still BRP.

There are over 150 new spells... thats what I said, 150 new spells, all balanced with the existing "Magic" system.

I just want to reiterate, that if you are playing Classic Fantasy, you are playing BRP. It's lethal and combat can be very quick and bloody, just more so for the NPCs. The options that I used to give players an edge, with the exception of a few, are right from BRP's core book.

I don't mean any disrespect Atgxtg, and have loads of respect for both you and your opinion, but I always take that comment more personally than I should.

I know not everyone sees it this way, but I have always seen D&D is a setting first and a set of rules second. I see it no differently than converting say Middle Earth or Star Wars. No one would ever say to someone converting Star Wars to BRP, just use the West End Games D6 System, or WOTC D20. After all BRP is a better system, at least to us.

So again, no disrespect is intended. I just wanted to explain how I see Classic Fantasy.

Rod

[Heimdallsgothi]

I’ve always found that the overall "feel" of a game systems rule set affects how it plays to some degree.

D&D (BECMI) Editions which I played for seemingly most of my young teenage years feels/plays a certain way. Death was a possible outcome, but not necessarily the inevitable outcome.

.… Example: I recently ran a Helms Deep Scenario. 10,000 orcs (1-2 level, with appropriate level 3 Sergeants and several level 5 officers and a level 8 General vs. 4 level 10 players on 30’ wall. The poor orcs never stood a chance.

Star Frontiers was remarkably fun, and deadlier than D&D, but was still space opera, and death was possible, but not likely.

Rolemaster which made every player accept the “Morituri te salutamus”, we who are about to die salute you - mindset. Of all the game systems I’ve ever played, Rolemaster, you

knew when you were making your character, that death was not only possible, but a very likely outcome for your character.

Shadowrun. The game is very deadly while at the same time, makes it very difficult to be “one shot/killed”. The game designers spoke of making it possible to take a small tactical nuclear warhead to the chest and surviving as a design decision. Overall, you knew death was a very strong possibility, and I loved the setting during my early gaming career.

Overall, a game system plays out where after a while, players know just how deadly a given game is to players, and while death is possible, some games it’s more likely than others, and players act within those bounds.

[rust]

Overall, a game system plays out where after a while, players know just how deadly a given game is to players, and while death is possible, some games it’s more likely than others, and players act within those bounds.

Yes, indeed. One reason why I like BRP is that even powerful characters still feel "heroic"

in the sense that they take a very real risk to achieve something, while in D&D and simi-

lar more cinematic games a high level character after a while begins to feel more like a

schoolyard bully who considers himself a tough guy but actually picks only fights he can

hardly lose. This kind of script immunity may feel nice for a while, but for me it tends to

become shallow rather soon, I cannot really appreciate a success which was gained with-

out taking a serious risk of failure - to me this is like bungee jumping, maybe an interes-

ting experience once or twice, but ultimately only a fake adventure.

[Heimdallsgothi]

I'd have to quibble with the fake adventure term really. Bungee jumping, much like sky diving or even amusement park rides aren't adventuresome, they for thrill seekers.

In the immortal words of Bilbo Baggins "We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can't think what anybody sees in them!"

[frogspawner]

One reason why I like BRP is that even powerful characters still feel "heroic" in the sense that they take a very real risk to achieve something, while in D&D and similar more cinematic games a high level character after a while begins to feel more like a schoolyard bully...

Exactly so!

[soltakss]

Seems an average player will die in just a few hits, and that never seems to change.

Here's a question for you - If you (not a PC but actually you) stood still in just your normal clothes and let someone take several hacks at you with a sword, how long would you last? Now, put the hardest soldier/martial artist in you place and do the same - how long would they last? In both cases, not very long.

BRP is the same. If you stand there and let someone hit you then you are going to die. If you move out of the way, block his blows with something and hit back then you will last a lot longer. If you think you are getting beaten up, then run away and come back another day.

With magic, by the way, your survival chances increase dramatically. Healing is a great leveller, spells that make you tougher or give you a better attack/damage also mean that you survive more easily.

As to people's vulnerability not changing, perform the above exercise on a normal person and that person after years of combat training. Both will die fairly easily. Now, give both weapons and armour and try again and the combat trained person will survive a lot easier. That is because BRP relies on skill and experience as much as physical toughness.

There are ways of increasing survivability. Get better armour/equipment, train characteristics (higher CON=higher Hit points), improve weapon skills and so on. In a magical game: learn magic; get enchantments that make you stronger; perform quests to become harder; gain magical abilities; bathe in dragon's blood and so on.

[Atgxtg]

So again, no disrespect is intended. I just wanted to explain how I see Classic Fantasy.

Rod

Sorry, Rod. I diodn't mean to imply that there is anything worn orbad about Classic Fantasy. I was just emphasising that it can be silly to play a differernt RPG and not expect it to play differerntly.

There is a LOTR group in my area where one player kept acting like the game was D&D. He was bothered by differences in the systems (anything that was different that DD was "wrong", something that got funny when it was pointed out that Tolkien was the one who created things like orcs, grey elves, high evles, and half orcs, not TSR). The player was constantly complaining about the game system, and was always upset that his character couldn't do the same sort of things that a wizard could do in D&D. He never even tried to discover all the things that his character could do in LOTR that he couldn't do in D&D. There was really no reason for him to even try LOTR. There really is no point in somebody buying a differernt BRP if they are going to keep playing the same way. And a lot of players don't seem to get that and adapt.

There isn't anything wrong with somebody wanting a "Classic Fantasy" experience and playing CF. I just think that new groups should atleast trying to et familar with BRP, before turning it into something else.

[threedeesix]

I just think that new groups should atleast trying to et familar with BRP, before turning it into something else.

In this we are in total agreement. The other problem with people trying to turn BRP into something else when they are not familiar with the system, is that its amazing just how much stuff being converted is already in there already. I have been playing various BRP games since the late 70s/early 80s, and even I find myself starting to create a house rule for something that I later find was there all along.

Rod

[Mankcam]

Ain't that the truth...

[Atgxtg]

In this we are in total agreement.

Of coruse, when somebody who has been playing BRP for 20 or 30 years decides to change something, that's differernt. They at least know what they are messing around with.

The other problem with people trying to turn BRP into something else when they are not familiar with the system,

Amen. One of the things that I didn't like about MRQ was that most of the changes to the system created new problems. RQ had a bunch of checks & balances built in, and the new author(s) did not seem to be aware of them. That is why thet had to keep patching the combat rules. Often people familiar with another system just assume that things work the same way in another, and make changes that have effects that they didnot expect. For instance, a +1 sword in D&D does full damage to a werewolf, while a sword with Bladesharp 1 only does 1 point to a wearwolf in RQ. That makes a big difference when you have to fight a werewolf. And those who are unfamiliar with RQ/BRPO will be in for a nasty shock.

[Heimdallsgothi]

Bladesharp? What choo talkin bout willis?

Werewolf needs silver weapons.....

[soltakss]

Silver and magic hurt werewolves. A werewolf bite will hurt them as it counts as a magical weapon.

[vagabond]

Yeah I have the Stormbringer book somewhere, but I've never read the actual books so I'm not all that familiar with the setting it self

The idea of a drug addled lording who destroys everyone and everything he cares for with his sword and demon pacts really doesn't sound all that heroic

If this is what you think the Elric saga is about without reading it, you are doing yourself a great disservice by not reading it ...

Ian

[Agentorange]

If this is what you think the Elric saga is about without reading it, you are doing yourself a great disservice by not reading it ...

Ian

True enough, but on the other hand as a one line summary of the books it's pretty good Sailor on the seas of Fate was probably my favourite Elric book. Overall though the Corum books ( both series ) were my fave Eternal champion books

[Mankcam]

Heimdallsgothi if you don't like the Elric saga then I reckon it's likely that you won't like the Elric/Stormbringer rpg line. It's only a setting however, so that's not an issue. Chaosium's main lines for the past 20 years have been Stormbringer (sword and sorcery) and Call of Cthuhlu (horror), but the BRP mechanics are pretty sound across a wide range of genres.

If you prefer heroic fantasy as opposed to dark fantasy, just use the BRP mechanics you like, but with liberal use of the Fate option or port over MRQ2 Hero Points in high quantities.

The BRP mechanics can be quite simple, but allow you to mix and match to make it a very 'nuts and bolts' if you like that. It's a GM's dream when it comes to making up optional rules, as the 'frame' itself is simple enough to hang alot of things off. Too many home rules can break any system, but there is alot of 'give' in the BRP mechanics so you can really go to town on your preferred style of play.

Best to start simple and see if you like that. Good luck with it all

Edited November 5, 2011 by Mankcam

[Atgxtg]

Bladesharp? What choo talkin bout willis?

I can''t remember what the spell was renamed to, but it is a spell that adds 5% to hit and +1 to damage per point.

Not necessarily. In RQ, runic metals were effective, as was magic. The relevant point here is that in RQ and it's offshoots only the magical component of the damage was considered magic. So if you hit a werewolf with a sword that had a 3 point magical enhancement on it, the weapon only did 1 point-the weapon's base damage did not apply. That is entirely different from D&D, where a magic weapon spell would inflict it's normal damage as well as the enhancement.

THere are a lot of little things like that which differentiate the BRP family of games from the D20 family.

Going off on a tangent for a moment, the werewolf's vulnerability to silver , shows just how much impact Curt Siodmak. has had on the modern perception of werewolves. The vulnerability has nothing to do with werewolf legends and everything to do with Siodmak's screenplay for the 1941 film. The Wolf Man. Practically everything we all take as part of the werewolf "curse" comes from Siodmak.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Atgxtg

[seneschal]

True. The werewolves of folklore were big and tough but not invulnerable. The preferred weapon against them was an ash (wooden) stake to impale them with, although a large caliber musket ball (any metal) would do as well -- and would help you keep your distance. The full moon thing is movie mythology, too. Werewolves were sorcerers who could assume bestial form to work evil. The transformation involved an animal pelt and a foul-smelling ointment of nasty ingredients -- and could be performed whenever the witch/warlock desired. One way to get the drop on a werewolf was to find his (carefully hidden) pelt and do unpleasant things to it; he'd shiver and get frostbite if it was put in a cold place or suffer burns if it was incinerated.

[Atgxtg]

Yup. According to folklore you didn't need anything special to kill a werewolf.

Silver, transformation tied to phases of the moon, the bite being contagious, and all that came from The Wolf Man. Traditionally silver weapons were for use against vampires.

It is just amazing how much of the modern "werewolf tradition" was invested by Siodmak.

[Agentorange]

You know I've never seen the film, I feel like a cultural philistine now

On the subject of were creatures ( even just wolves ) it's worth noting that traditions vary from culture to culture. Handy if your party members get too blase about how to fight what they meet.....

[dragonewt]

Handy if your party members get too blase about how to fight what they meet.....

Any genre or game can reveal its actual Cthulhu back-story to the surprise of the players...