New to BRP

[Heimdallsgothi]

Ok so I purchased the BRP hardcover, to see if I would like the game, and it seemed interesting enough that I purchased the Magic book, Basic creatures, Basic GM and Classic Fantasy. I saw reference to Mythic Iceland that I may see if i can buy that.. Love viking lore

I've owned Pendragon for many years but never did more than a casual read just after I purchased it seemingly forever ago, I have the green cover Stormbringer book, still shrink wrapped somewhere if I remember correctly. I may have a Rune Quest box in my collection somewhere, but I've never even opened the box, so not sure what edition it is.

I've mostly been running Rolemaster from the early 90's to a few years ago. Recently Ive run a 18 month pathfinder campaign, was interesting but I keep bumping against the limitations of the system and will probably drop the system entirely.

Right now I am considering BRP or Hero as my next system. I currently own all of the HS6E books, but to be honest, most players look at the stack and start looking for the exits, BRP is much less intimidating in that regard.

My primary concern is of course the lack of HP's or overall lethality. Seems an average player will die in just a few hits, and that never seems to change. Of course I have played Rolemaster, with the crit charts, so deadly lethality is is not necessarily a bad thing, just curious just how deadly the game is in play.

[rust]

Provided the players have at least a basic understanding of tactics and a

healthy respect for missile weapons and for superiority in numbers, BRP is

not extremely lethal for their characters.

[RosenMcStern]

After the initial training period in which we rolled characters at a rate of one per session, I have run BRP campaigns that lasted for years with very few casualties. Magic makes healing and resurrection available, so the lack of extra HP is more than compensated by other factors. Just do not expect to be hit by a trebuchet and survive, like it happens in D&D. But I do not consider THIS a flaw

[seneschal]

Hero System is much less intimidating than it appears if you are running 75-point plus Disads fantasy characters instead of superheroes. It is tricking out all those powers that increases the effort. By default, it is much more cinematic than BRP; Hero System characters tend to be tougher than their BRP equivalents. BRP character creation seems faster at first blush ... until you have to allocate all those 250 or more skill points. Then you're back to point-buy again.

Hero gives you more flexibility and guidance in creating your own fantasy critters. While BRP has a great number of pre-done monsters to throw at your heroes, making your own unique ones often requires some guesswork, especially when dealing with SIZ.

But both systems are solid, time-tested games that can handle a variety of genres, including fantasy. Which one is "best" depends on you and your players and the style of play you enjoy. Check out my character creation comparison in the superheroes projects thread. That may help you get a feel for how Hero System and Basic Roleplaying differ, and how they are similar.

[threedeesix]

My primary concern is of course the lack of HP's or overall lethality. Seems an average player will die in just a few hits, and that never seems to change. Of course I have played Rolemaster, with the crit charts, so deadly lethality is is not necessarily a bad thing, just curious just how deadly the game is in play.

Greetings Heimdallsgothi and welcome to BRP.

BRP doesnt have to be super lethal if you don't want it to be. I personally run BRP with many of the more heroic options and find it only slightly more lethal than D&D. D&Ds escalating hit points represent skill and ability to avoid taking serious damage at higher levels, assuming a better ability to parry and dodge among other things. BRP allows some serious skill to parry and dodge attacks if allowing skills over 100%, so I think it balances out.

Plus I see you purchased Classic Fantasy as well. Thanks for giving it a peek. There are some other things in that book to specifically target higher "level" characters as well.

Rod

[Heimdallsgothi]

@ seneschal

Hero System in itself doesnt scare me, again, I am a long time Rolemaster player, and consider the RM2 variant far more complex than Hero 5th or 6th ed. However, having to explain to my players that fractions are an essential part of character creation in a point buy system is a losing argument. I love the flexibility of Hero, the idea of the game is truely elegant. The sheer amount of work you have to sign up for in building and developing a setting (esp fantasy) is daunting for a new player of the game.

@ threedeesix

While I have run multiple genres, from Fantasy, to WEG Star Wars, Mark Millers Traveller, Palladium (FRP, N&S, Beyond the Supernatural, Rifts etc) my love is really fantasy, and lately, Dark Fantasy.

[threedeesix]

While I have run multiple genres, from Fantasy, to WEG Star Wars, Mark Millers Traveller, Palladium (FRP, N&S, Beyond the Supernatural, Rifts etc) my love is really fantasy, and lately, Dark Fantasy.

Might I suggest you take a look at Ashes to Ashes and Dust to Dust. Two very well thought out dark fantasy campaign/setting books. However, for such a campaign, I would actually suggest toning down on some of the more heroic elements as opposed to really beefing them up. Your choice of course, but Im sure both books more than likly touch opon the subject.

The author can sometimes be found here as well and could more than likley answer any questions on the books.

Rod

[Thalaba]

My primary concern is of course the lack of HP's or overall lethality. Seems an average player will die in just a few hits, and that never seems to change.

This is true, on the surface, BUT:

-If you are playing fantasy, the average character will have armour to reduce the impact of blows. Over time, characters can get better armour or can accumulate magical protections.

-You character can actively parry or dodge, reducing the number of blows that hit. These skills improve over time.

-Tactics and teamwork in battle are seriously effective.

-Using hit locations actually reduces death. Having your arm disabled serves as an early warning system for players. Using only total HP, you can fight un-hindered right down to 1HP, which tends to make players feel brave. But suffering a disabling blow while you still have 1/2 of your total HP will encourage a more defensive stance in a hurry!

-There is an optional rule that doubles HP, and this works quite well.

-Depending on the magic options you choose, nearly every character can have healing magic.

I've been running two weekly fantasy campaigns for the last three years and only had two character deaths - neither of them in toe-to-toe combat (one from a chariot fall, another in an explosion). This is using standard HP, hit locations, armour. Combat skills have ranged from 60% to 95% for the top skills.

[Atgxtg]

My primary concern is of course the lack of HP's or overall lethality. Seems an average player will die in just a few hits, and that never seems to change.

THat will change. One of the big differences between BRP and games like Pendragon and Rolemaster is that a good parry will stiop most attacks. Especially if backed up with armor and/or magic. What you will se if that once PCs get their defense skills up, they wont get hit as often. You can see this for yourself by running a fight between two generate guys average stats, 50% skill) and then refight it giving them both 100% skill.

Of course I have played Rolemaster, with the crit charts, so deadly lethality is is not necessarily a bad thing, just curious just how deadly the game is in play.

The real lethality in BRP tends to come fom the special and crtical hits. Such hits can often do enough damage to kill someone outright, although once again a good parry can make all the difference.

But expect fights in BRP to be shorter and more brutal than in most ofther fantasry RPGs. You dont really want long fights with both sides tading blows, since it will greatly increase the chances of a PC being killed by lucky crtical or special. In some ways, two guys fighting in plate can be in greater danager than two guys fighting in clothing.

[Heimdallsgothi]

I will have to take a look at the dodge/parry rules. They may be interesting. Are they done well? How do they relate.? I keep seeing some expert with a 90 skill who rolls a 60 getting parried by some baker with a rolling pin skill 30 who rolled a 29.

##

Ok the baker would parry......

The game gives lots of advantages to the defender

##

Ok can you attack and parrry in the same round? Or one or the other?

Is parry its own skill or based of each weapon separately....

Omg strike ranks....

Edited October 26, 2011 by Heimdallsgothi

[frogspawner]

So how many rounds can the Baker keep that up? More than three? Then he's a *very* lucky baker (and deserves to survive).

Yep, you can attack AND parry - same round. (And I allow Dodge too...)

You can have parry a separate skill if you want (or not if you don't).

Strike Ranks? No thanks!

-Using hit locations actually reduces death. Having your arm disabled serves as an early warning system for players. Using only total HP, you can fight un-hindered right down to 1HP, which tends to make players feel brave. But suffering a disabling blow while you still have 1/2 of your total HP will encourage a more defensive stance in a hurry!

I get this 'realistic caution' effect, without the complication of HP-per-Location, by halving HP - but also saying you stay alive until minus CON HP. Disabling blows kick-in at Zero. And no-one can criticize you for running away when you're on negative! Even wannabe heroes realize it's just common sense...

[Heimdallsgothi]

Thats an interesting concept. Not sure ive seen that option yet. I generally try to avoid houseruling many things unless necessary

[Conrad]

my love is really fantasy, and lately, Dark Fantasy.

Have you checked out the dark fantasy in Stormbringer fifth edition, also known as Elric! RPG? Its rules form the core of the BGB.

[Heimdallsgothi]

Yeah I have the Stormbringer book somewhere, but I've never read the actual books so I'm not all that familiar with the setting it self

The idea of a drug addled lording who destroys everyone and everything he cares for with his sword and demon pacts really doesn't sound all that heroic

Im currently in the process of outlining my own campaign setting for a Fantasy Hero game that will likely never see the light of day, perhaps I will adapt it over to BRP

[Chaot]

Welcome to the forums, Heimdallsgothi.

-Tactics and teamwork in battle are seriously effective.

So true. Missile weapons, weapon length, weapon breakage, two combatants on one are four that spring immediately to mind.

I will have to take a look at the dodge/parry rules. They may be interesting. Are they done well? How do they relate.? I keep seeing some expert with a 90 skill who rolls a 60 getting parried by some baker with a rolling pin skill 30 who rolled a 29.

##

Ok the baker would parry......

The game gives lots of advantages to the defender

I wouldn't say lots. The chances of that Baker holding of that expert for any reasonable amount of time is slim. Add to it that the expert is three times more likely to get a critical and the baker is much less likely to defend with a success to blunt the critical's effects, you will soon be looking at one dead baker.

Omg strike ranks....

I much prefer Dex ranks for determining action. When I'm looking at combat options, I generally lump strike ranks and hit locations together and put dex ranks and major wounds together as they evolved under two different brp 'houses' (runequest and elric, respectively.)

[Chaot]

Yeah I have the Stormbringer book somewhere, but I've never read the actual books so I'm not all that familiar with the setting it self

The idea of a drug addled lording who destroys everyone and everything he cares for with his sword and demon pacts really doesn't sound all that heroic

Im currently in the process of outlining my own campaign setting for a Fantasy Hero game that will likely never see the light of day, perhaps I will adapt it over to BRP

Perhaps, but I've run Elric!/Stormbringer5 since the mid 90s and that mopey albino has never shown up in a game. Check it out for the rules. Earlier versions are insanely fun in a completely unbalanced way and later versions are solid, quick and are actually my favored version of BRP.

[Conrad]

Yeah I have the Stormbringer book somewhere, but I've never read the actual books so I'm not all that familiar with the setting it self

The idea of a drug addled lording who destroys everyone and everything he cares for with his sword and demon pacts really doesn't sound all that heroic

Im currently in the process of outlining my own campaign setting for a Fantasy Hero game that will likely never see the light of day, perhaps I will adapt it over to BRP

Well, that's dark fantasy for you; though the later books like The Dreamthief's Daughter are not in the same antiheroic vein. But the later edition Stormbringer RPG rules are my favourite dark fantasy rules.

And you don't even run BRP yet....

Edited November 2, 2011 by Conrad

[Atgxtg]

I will have to take a look at the dodge/parry rules. They may be interesting. Are they done well? How do they relate.? I keep seeing some expert with a 90 skill who rolls a 60 getting parried by some baker with a rolling pin skill 30 who rolled a 29.

##

Ok the baker would parry......

The game gives lots of advantages to the defender

Not really. Being hit in BRP, unllike most RPgs, can be life threatening, even if you only get hit once. Also, specials and critical are more effective and parries might not be entirely effective against them. And then, of coourse, there is next round. The baker is only going to stop 30% of the skilled swordsman's attacks. So he might stop one or two attacks before he goes down.

Once again, this isn't Pendragon, or Rolemaster, or D&D. Character, inclduing player characters don't have a big pool of hit points to soak up damage with. So they can't take two or three whacks before figuring out that they are overmatched. Characters just ca't take 10 or 15 points of damage before figuring out they can't win. And that is whatthe parry does. Gives them a chance.

##

Ok can you attack and parrry in the same round? Or one or the other?

YES. The game would be far too deadly without it. However, depedning on which option you use, there might be limts on what you can do with one weapon at a given time. That is you might have to delay your attack a DEX rank or SR with your weapon becuase you are parring with it now.

Is parry its own skill or based of each weapon separately....

Yes and Yes and or maybe and no.

You see it depends on what options you are using.

Basicallyeach type of weapon is it's own skill. (1H sword, 1H Axe) and the skill score applies to all weapons of that general type. So if you have 1H sword you can use that skill when wielding ANY one handed sword. But your sword skill won't apply if you are wielding a club.

Now, depending on what options you are using this can change a bit.

One option splits attack and parry into two seperate skills

Another option lets you apply half you skill to "similar weapons". That is is you know how to swing an axe, it might help you when swings a sword or a mace, but probably won't be worth much if you pick up a spear or a bow.

Yet another option would be to treat each weapon as it's own skill. In that case, knowing how to use a boradsword, it won7t help if you pick up a bastard sword.

your attack

Omg strike ranks....

Are actually surprising easy to use, and really help with timing issues. It is also optional.

Persoanlly I prefer SRs, since it prevents things like people running across a field and hitting somebody who had an arrow nocked in his bow and should have been able to shoot first. SRs also help with integrating magic into the order of combat. Most of the work is done is advance. A guy who attack on SR7 will always attack on SR 7, unless they do something else prior to attacking. Sor SRs look far more complicated that they are in play.

[Conrad]

Yeah I have the Stormbringer book somewhere, but I've never read the actual books so I'm not all that familiar with the setting it self

Read the books then. They're not as bad as you think. You might actually learn what the words "dark fantasy" mean!

The idea of a drug addled lording who destroys everyone and everything he cares for with his sword and demon pacts really doesn't sound all that heroic

Elric is not drug addled. Elric's sword kills everyone he ever cares for, not Elric. Melniboneans, Elric's race, have pacts with elementals, beast lords and chaos gods.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Conrad

[Mugen]

An option that could reduce mortality is to consider two pools of "hit points", similarly to Star Wars d20 :

-The first pool is more like "fatigue points", resplenishing fully in a few minutes when out of battle or other stressing avtivities.

-The second kind is really a measure of one's body integrity. Only major wounds (that is, wounds with damage superior to (SIZ+CON)/4) or blows taken when "fatigue" is reduced to 0 should affect it.

[Heimdallsgothi]

Question regarding parry. When parrying multiple times, you are at a -30% for each additional parry. Do you recalculate the crit/special chance?

[Atgxtg]

There are lots of ways to reduce mortialty, but I think it is better first to understand how the game works as written before aking any changes.

For those who want a gaming experience more like D&D, there is Classic Fantasy. But, I think that sort of defeats the purpose of playing BRP. I mean, if somebody wants things to be more like another game, they could just play another game. BRP/RQ is enjoyable in part becuase combat is so leathal and it forces players to trhink.

[Heimdallsgothi]

The 4 new books today.. i was hoping basic creatures would be a bit larger.. its a teeny little thing

[Mankcam]

Yes, not really a large list in Basic Creatures, although it covers alot of situations. It is a reprint of the Creatures Book/Chapter from RQ3, but for many years I've been reasonably happy with that and the RQ3 Gloranthan Bestiary, between the two there is a fair ammount of beasties.

If you hunt around for Call of Cthuhlu and Stormbringer rulebooks you'll also get useful additions to your creature supply, and you'll find this in many other supplements (eg: Rome, Amber Coast, etc).

It's been raised before that BRP needs a really BIG old fashioned creature compedium with more critters than you'll ever need - I guess one of the licencees is bound to compile this one day.

[SDLeary]

Yes, not really a large list in Basic Creatures, although it covers alot of situations. It is a reprint of the Creatures Book/Chapter from RQ3, but for many years I've been reasonably happy with that and the RQ3 Gloranthan Bestiary, between the two there is a fair ammount of beasties.

If you hunt around for Call of Cthuhlu and Stormbringer rulebooks you'll also get useful additions to your creature supply, and you'll find this in many other supplements (eg: Rome, Amber Coast, etc).

It's been raised before that BRP needs a really BIG old fashioned creature compedium with more critters than you'll ever need - I guess one of the licencees is bound to compile this one day.

And, if you want to be really nasty, you can also use beasties from Malleus Monstrorum, the Call of Cthulhu creatures book.

SDLeary

Edited October 30, 2011 by SDLeary