Culture & Characters (Option)

[LivingTriskele]

Hi BRP hivemind. Looking for some advice regarding implementing Cultural Skills in a campaign. 

I’m planning on listing a set of skills for each culture, for the players to choose from.

The players are going to start with an equal amount of cultural bonus skill points to allocate over their respective chosen cultural skills.

My question is A) what’s a good TOTAL amount of bonus points to allow for cultural skills per character, and B) what’s a good maximum of bonus points to be allocated per each chosen cultural skill?

I’m considering a total of 40 bonus cultural skill points per character with a maximum +15% per combat skill and +35% per non-combat skills. Does that seem fair?

[g33k]

I think the system is robust enough to allow any levels you'd like.

RQ2 leaned into the "zero to hero" trope, and starting PC's apex skills were typically well below 50%; RQG has the same basic chassis at the table, but char-gen produces much more experienced starting characters routinely have apex skills of 85% and over.

I wouldn't bother with limiting to only +15% on combat skills... someone who grows up in a military family, or a hunting one, IS going to learn a higher level of weapon skills than the general populace... and that's honestly OK.

Whatever level you pick:  sanity-check your choices by attempting to min-max whatever you select in a few runs of character-creation.
 

[Mugen]

Mythras gives 100 points for culture, 100 for profession, and 150 bonus points for "adult" characters (between 17 and 27).

Skills get a maximum +15 per step, so a skill present in all 3 steps can reach +45 in total.

Older characters have more bonus points, and can put more of those points into each skill. Up to 300 points and +30/skill.

[svensson]

So, keeping this in the BRUGE realm, you can assume that most rolls for a native are automatic. It's when you get into the nit-picky details of culture that rolls are even called for.

I would give Culture [Native] about 35%. This would represent basic cultural 'literacy' for someone with little formal schooling but who was raised in said culture..

[NickMiddleton]

14 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

The players are going to start with an equal amount of cultural bonus skill points to allocate over their respective chosen cultural skills.

My question is A) what’s a good TOTAL amount of bonus points to allow for cultural skills per character, and B) what’s a good maximum of bonus points to be allocated per each chosen cultural skill?

I’m considering a total of 40 bonus cultural skill points per character with a maximum +15% per combat skill and +35% per non-combat skills. Does that seem fair?

In Magic World, my general touchstone / baseline for implementing BRP,  each Cultural classification gets a list of 6 - 9 skills and a player chose three from that list to give a +10 bonus (think in my tweaks of MW CG to bring it more in line with the BGB I scaled the adds for culture to +10 / +15 / +20 / +25 for campaign power level)... Your figures seem roughly similar, and I'd say they were perfectly fair.

[Atgxtg]

20 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

My question is A) what’s a good TOTAL amount of bonus points to allow for cultural skills per character, and B) what’s a good maximum of bonus points to be allocated per each chosen cultural skill?

I'd say that depends on how skilled you want the characters to be. I also think that since it is cultural, rather than breaking up more points it might be better if they just get a flat add to cultural skills, as it will avoid player putting all their bonus points into one or two skills. Players have other points to focus on particular skills.

20 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

I’m considering a total of 40 bonus cultural skill points per character with a maximum +15% per combat skill and +35% per non-combat skills. Does that seem fair?

It does if it applies to all characters and each get skills of roughly equal usefulness. If you want to keep things fair you probably don't want one culture to get Axe and Shiphandling while another gets Punch and and Play (instrument). 

 

 

Edited March 18 by Atgxtg

[soltakss]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:41 PM, LivingTriskele said:

I’m considering a total of 40 bonus cultural skill points per character with a maximum +15% per combat skill and +35% per non-combat skills. Does that seem fair?

40 seems really low, considering the point made that Mythras gives 100. I wouldn't restrict to combat and non-combat, personally, although you might want to limit how many points someone can put into a skill. One Investigator in a Call of Cthulhu campaign in one of our old gaming groups had Shotgun 200% as he put all his points into Shotgun, because "I really like shotguns", he wasn't a great Investigator until it came to shooting things.

[Simulacrum]

Also really important to remember when people make comparisons that Mythras basic percentages are all the sum of two Characteristics, which gives an average basic of 21% and in reality, bearing in mind INT and SIZ being 2d6+6 and that straight rolling is rarely used, more like 25%. Perhaps more important than the average is the fact these give you a floor. BRP basics are often as low as 5%, so you may need a lot more skill points to reach equivalent levels of competence.  

[Mugen]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:44 AM, Simulacrum said:

Also really important to remember when people make comparisons that Mythras basic percentages are all the sum of two Characteristics, which gives an average basic of 21% and in reality, bearing in mind INT and SIZ being 2d6+6 and that straight rolling is rarely used, more like 25%. Perhaps more important than the average is the fact these give you a floor. BRP basics are often as low as 5%, so you may need a lot more skill points to reach equivalent levels of competence.  

But, on the other hand you can't put more than a total of 45 points at character creation into a skill, providing you put 15 points on each of the 3 steps mentioned above. Unless you're playing a character that is older than usual, of course.

Which means skills with a maximum between 65 and 75. Huge when compared to RQ2 or RQ3, but not when compared to Elric, MW ot Call of Cthulhu.

Edited March 23 by Mugen

[Simulacrum]

Granted - but our in-play experience is often about where your lowest skills are, not your highest. 

[Questbird]

I run an Elric! campaign set in Nehwon. Elric! (and Magic World) have skill bonuses for 'natural abilities' which add 20% to a set of skills depending on whether a character is crafty, cunning, physical or persuasive. However I also wanted some cultural skills. So I ended up with adding 10% for culture and 10% for the 'natural abilities' (which I like).

Example:

'Natural ability':

His or her first impulse is to try to outsmart an opponent or to gain an advantage. Give 10 points each to Bargain, Conceal Object, Disguise, Evaluate, Fast Talk, Hide, Insight, Natural World, Oratory, Own Language, Pick Lock and Search, and to any one class of weapon

Cultural:

Barbarian (Cold Waste)

+5%: Search, Move Quietly, Hide
+10%: Climb, Jump, Natural World
Pick Two +5%: Sailing, Art (Dance), Art (Sing), Dodge, Oratory, Swim
Pick One +10%: Craft, Known Kingdoms, Art (Play instrument), Track
Pick Three +10%: 1H Axe, 1H Hammer, 2H Axe, 2H Hammer, Bow, Dagger, Shield, Sling, Spear, Staff, Throw, Brawl

And then they get the 250 points to spend on their Profession skills.

[Atgxtg]

Reminds me of RQ3 cultural skills

[LivingTriskele]

I’ve been comparing the BRP core rules with Magic World. A total of 40 bonus Cultural Skill points per character with the standard 250 Normal characters as per the BRP core rules, is the same number as Magic World’s 30 bonus Cultural Skill points combined with its 260 for Professional Skills—only without the limitation of the total points being broken down into smaller allocations (i.e., +20% x 4 over any Skills).

I know my players and expect them to max out their primary Skills. With a total of 290 Skill Points, I’m guessing it’s safe for me to expect they can max out about 5 skills at 75%, taking into consideration various base chances. Also, I’m planning on using Skill Bonuses. Would you say this is a fun starting point?

To be honest my impressions of BRP have probably been more idealistic than practical. Hence me coming to the veterans for advice 😄 I’ve had a great time using it to run the occasional Call of Cthulhu game, but most of my attempts at running RuneQuest were with the Avalon Hill edition, which were met with frustration by players forced to begin the game with skills at 30%, if I recall. I know that with Easy tasks, Skill percentiles are doubled. Going forward I hope that alleviates some of the that frustration (still my players haven’t stopped me from collecting most Chaosium publications out of love and appreciation).

[Mugen]

I read somewhere (I think it was from Ben Monroe on rpg.net) that Magic World had an option for "pyramidal" skill distribution, where a PC had one skill at +X%, 2 skill at +(X-10), 3 skills at +(X-20), and so on. 

I think it's a fun and efficient way to avoid PCs putting all their points in a few skills.

I'm also not a fan of skill bonuses. I prefer having base values for each category, equal to he sum of 2 characteristics. French 2nd edition of Nephilim used this.

[Saki]

Why not replace Personality Type with Cultural skills?  Add 20 points to each of 13 different skills associated with that Culture.

[LivingTriskele]

7 hours ago, Mugen said:

I read somewhere (I think it was from Ben Monroe on rpg.net) that Magic World had an option for "pyramidal" skill distribution, where a PC had one skill at +X%, 2 skill at +(X-10), 3 skills at +(X-20), and so on. 

It does. I was considering using that approach, but I’m on the fence. I’m inclined to give my players as much freedom in character creation as possible. I think they’ll just be happier. BRP by default is more lethal than D&D (which they are all used to), so I’m hoping a little freedom in character generation will compensate for that.

[LivingTriskele]

1 hour ago, Saki said:

Why not replace Personality Type with Cultural skills?  Add 20 points to each of 13 different skills associated with that Culture.

This got me thinking that I’d actually like to use both. The campaign setting I’ve been working on emphasizes psychological archetypes, and the Personality Types optional rule fits nicely with what I have going on here. But I also want to use Cultural Skills.

I can think of two ways of doing this. Allow the players to take their 40 Cultural Skill points and use them either on Cultural Skills or Personality Type skills OR split the 40 down the center—20 points for Cultural Skills and 20 points for Personality Type skills.

[Mugen]

3 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

It does. I was considering using that approach, but I’m on the fence. I’m inclined to give my players as much freedom in character creation as possible. I think they’ll just be happier. BRP by default is more lethal than D&D (which they are all used to), so I’m hoping a little freedom in character generation will compensate for that.

Well, that approach will lead them to have more diverse skills, and less situations where they will suck terribly. 

🙂

And what freedom is there in a game where everyone will simply maximize the 5 more useful skills in the game ? Though MW is not CoC...

[LivingTriskele]

I’m hoping (sort of assuming) that with 5 Skills maxed at 75% they’ll still have a few points left over for “hobby” skills that they can’t necessarily depend upon, but will get some satisfaction improving in game.

[LivingTriskele]

Another thing I need to navigate is how to incorporate different species/races that are on average just more powerful than most humans. Giving them more points to allocate over Characteristics doesn’t seem fair, but neither does forcing them start of weaker than the average member of their species.

I suppose I could use in-game disadvantages, like being the subject of xenophobia or having unusual dietary needs.

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

It does. I was considering using that approach, but I’m on the fence. I’m inclined to give my players as much freedom in character creation as possible. I think they’ll just be happier. BRP by default is more lethal than D&D (which they are all used to), so I’m hoping a little freedom in character generation will compensate for that.

That's a nice idea but the trap for D&D players is to try to put all thier eggs into one basket. Since D&D relies on "balanced" (read rigged) encounters  it has all sorts of limits on character improvement, and stacking, which encourages player to focus all their points to one area. Often, when those players play something other than D&D, they bring that tendency with them, and they tend to end up with characters who are over-focused and lacking in all other areas. 

You might need to do something to try and get that point across. 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, LivingTriskele said:

Another thing I need to navigate is how to incorporate different species/races that are on average just more powerful than most humans. Giving them more points to allocate over Characteristics doesn’t seem fair, but neither does forcing them start of weaker than the average member of their species.

I suppose I could use in-game disadvantages, like being the subject of xenophobia or having unusual dietary needs.

BRP mostly isn't aimed at "Balance."  I wouldn't worry too much about this.  If you feel the players will just pursue taking the "powerful" races and ignore the baseline races -- and you don't want this -- I'd consider:

•  add "negatives" to the "too-powerful" races (as you suggest)
•  make any "too-powerful" races NPC-only
•  add compensating benefits to humans (and other "weak" races)
•  mix both strategies:  advantages for the weaker and disadvantages for the stronger

But really, I reiterate:  I wouldn't worry too much about this.

 

Edited April 2 by g33k
ooops

[LivingTriskele]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

That's a nice idea but the trap for D&D players is to try to put all thier eggs into one basket. Since D&D relies on "balanced" (read rigged) encounters  it has all sorts of limits on character improvement, and stacking, which encourages player to focus all their points to one area. Often, when those players play something other than D&D, they bring that tendency with them, and they tend to end up with characters who are over-focused and lacking in all other areas. 

You might need to do something to try and get that point across. 

Truth! That's the reason why I like to throw the occasional foe at them that I know they can't beat in a strait fight. I think that they will have some extra points left over, after maxing out their main skills, for things that they’ll need to develop in game.

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

Truth! That's the reason why I like to throw the occasional foe at them that I know they can't beat in a strait fight. I think that they will have some extra points left over, after maxing out their main skills, for things that they’ll need to develop in game.

LOL! I recall something along those lines in a Star Trek forum. One guy was wondering why he shouldn't just dump all his points towards  maxing out his phaser and martial arts skills for his security character. My replay was "diplomatic missions." The player was used to D&D and the idea of ad adventure that wasn't solved through combat wasn't something that he had even considered. But It's better to be proactive and teach that to the players before chargen. On the plus side the replacement PCs are usually more rounded. 

But then I once watched a PC mercenary  bleed to death from a minor injury because they put all thier points into greatsword, and didn't see a reason to save any points for anything else, like, say,  First Aid.  The guy got zero sympathy from the other players.

 

 

[Questbird]

10 hours ago, LivingTriskele said:

This got me thinking that I’d actually like to use both. The campaign setting I’ve been working on emphasizes psychological archetypes, and the Personality Types optional rule fits nicely with what I have going on here. But I also want to use Cultural Skills.

I can think of two ways of doing this. Allow the players to take their 40 Cultural Skill points and use them either on Cultural Skills or Personality Type skills OR split the 40 down the center—20 points for Cultural Skills and 20 points for Personality Type skills.

 

That's what I did -- use both but at half the original bonus