Observations of the Lunar Way Cults.

[Akhôrahil]

16 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Although I do very much like the idea of Tiny Titus the Lunar Centurion who fell foul of the 2D6 SIZ loss curse bellowing squeakily at you...   

At least we have the origin for Biggus Dickus now.

[glarkhag]

9 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

3.5 is the average of a d6 - but actually the chance will be significantly higher than that if as is very likely the target (who is going to be an enemy dangerous enough to merit spending rune points to put down) also has a magic bonus as that is added to the ST Illumination roll...

For me, the key part is that these act as a one-time bonus to the Illumination skill. Base skill is Moon Rune Affinity divided by 5. If your Moon Rune Affinity is 0 (as most Orlanthi are likely to have) then your base illumination skill is 00.  You can't apply bonuses and modifiers to 00 skills. Therefore if your moon rune is 0 then you will only gain skill in Illumination if you learn it or solve riddles.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, glarkhag said:

If your Moon Rune Affinity is 0 (as most Orlanthi are likely to have)

Vasana has 50% moon rune

[Techpriest]

Illumination is rarely involuntary. We also know of plenty illuminated individuals who loathe chaos - look at Arkat. Illumination as a whole doesn’t mean you’re about to go off and shake the fabric of reality itself and invite chaos into the world. What it means is you’ve overcome in some ways, the primordial fear of chaos. This is actually a reason someone who say, is an orlanthi Fyrd who was devoted to Orlanth might suddenly become part of the Storm Bull cult after a battle where he did end up getting mindblasted and driven mad by lunar sorcery. He no longer suffers the primordial fear from chaos but rather than the illuminate overcoming his overwhelming hatred, he uses the skill to fuel it. In other words, throw an illuminated storm bull at your players in a lunar game. 

[glarkhag]

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

Vasana has 50% moon rune

Yes she does.

There are always exceptions to the rule but that doesn't disprove the rule. I've not found any other published Orlanthi with the Moon rune.

[French Desperate WindChild]

23 hours ago, glarkhag said:

your Moon Rune Affinity is 0 (as most Orlanthi are likely to have)

Moon rune is magic affinity, not any "political" orientation.

There is a +10 bonus in a rune depending on the homeland but, except this, anyone may be more sensitive to magic than other.

I would say* that the rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune you may find in published material are less important to prove the rule than the game design about the rune itself

 

* I would say too that the weak rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune may be a bias when people create npc. I'm pretty sure that if this rune was not called "moon" but "chili con carne" you will meet more Orlanthi with a good magical affinity in the material. And an interesting way of relationship between  Trolls cooks and these people

[Rodney Dangerduck]

16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I would say too that the weak rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune may be a bias when people create npc. I'm pretty sure that if this rune was not called "moon" but "chili con carne

The Moon Rune is very useful to spell casters and shamen.  Players who automatically set it to 0 may be doing their character a disservice. 

[glarkhag]

13 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Moon rune is magic affinity, not any "political" orientation.

There is a +10 bonus in a rune depending on the homeland but, except this, anyone may be more sensitive to magic than other.

I would say* that the rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune you may find in published material are less important to prove the rule than the game design about the rune itself

 

* I would say too that the weak rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune may be a bias when people create npc. I'm pretty sure that if this rune was not called "moon" but "chili con carne" you will meet more Orlanthi with a good magical affinity in the material. And an interesting way of relationship between  Trolls cooks and these people

Agreed, but it is not magic affinity it is Moon affinity (which happens to align with magic). And the Orlanthi are a little bit at odds with the moon. Yes some Orlanthi will have it but I would suggest it wouldn't be prevalent because of cultural prejudice. 

However, if Moon affinity is highly prevalent in the culture then the prevalence of Illumination would certainly increase based on RAW. 

As with many rules when you apply them to the world as opposed to individual heroes they don't always model well. Applying fumbles to mass battles has always been a good example. Climbing fumbles too. That crazy spiderman guy would be dead by now if RQG rules applied to him! 

[Jeff]

4 hours ago, glarkhag said:

Agreed, but it is not magic affinity it is Moon affinity (which happens to align with magic). And the Orlanthi are a little bit at odds with the moon. Yes some Orlanthi will have it but I would suggest it wouldn't be prevalent because of cultural prejudice. 

However, if Moon affinity is highly prevalent in the culture then the prevalence of Illumination would certainly increase based on RAW. 

As with many rules when you apply them to the world as opposed to individual heroes they don't always model well. Applying fumbles to mass battles has always been a good example. Climbing fumbles too. That crazy spiderman guy would be dead by now if RQG rules applied to him! 

In my experience, Moon Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Orlanthi. Just as the Air Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Esrolians or Pelorians. 

[glarkhag]

19 minutes ago, Jeff said:

In my experience, Moon Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Orlanthi. Just as the Air Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Esrolians or Pelorians. 

i guess the original concern aboutinvoluntary illumination stands then. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 hours ago, glarkhag said:

Yes some Orlanthi will have it but I would suggest it wouldn't be prevalent because of cultural prejudice. 

are you saying the orlanthi themselves decide what are their runes ? Or maybe by detection, select babies who fit with the "right" runes ?  So even if being closest to air or earth -because the land is like this, the culture is a consequence, not a cause) gives you a little prevalence for them, the moon cannot be seen as a rare rune, in my opinion

the cultural prejudice may happen, depending how the rune impacts the character behaviour (I agree that my previous post forgot the moon part of the rune) but it would be very surprising that in a "nobody can tell you what you have to do" culture, having a high rune moon rate will automatically remove you from your clan (death / ban / whatever) if you never acted against it.

[David Scott]

3 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

i guess the original concern aboutinvoluntary illumination stands then. 

See the last paragraph in LW 99, Is Involuntary Illumination Possible? That covers it for me.

[glarkhag]

Just now, French Desperate WindChild said:

are you saying the orlanthi themselves decide what are their runes ? Or maybe by detection, select babies who fit with the "right" runes ?  So even if being closest to air or earth -because the land is like this, the culture is a consequence, not a cause) gives you a little prevalence for them, the moon cannot be seen as a rare rune, in my opinion

the cultural prejudice may happen, depending how the rune impacts the character behaviour (I agree that my previous post forgot the moon part of the rune) but it would be very surprising that in a "nobody can tell you what you have to do" culture, having a high rune moon rate will automatically remove you from your clan (death / ban / whatever) if you never acted against it.

well as I saw it those with High Moon affinity are more likely to be turn-coats during the occupation.

And no I don't believe in a real sense they would choose what their affinities are - I just think if there was a high presence of moon then perhaps the rebellions might have gone differently. But apparently there is a high occurence so clearly my understanding of how runes affects people is not right.

[glarkhag]

4 minutes ago, David Scott said:

See the last paragraph in LW 99, Is Involuntary Illumination Possible? That covers it for me.

but in game terms the roll is automatic. Which suggests that having moon rune affinity makes it that the "individual [is] unconsciously open to and perhaps seeking the mystical inspiration of Illumination."  Which seems unlikely to me.

The challenge is hard mechanics versus fuzzy philosophy. You have to suppress the mechanics at some point or else we'll go round in circles on this...

[French Desperate WindChild]

5 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

I just think if there was a high presence of moon then perhaps the rebellions might have gone differently

or perhaps, the opposite: maybe less sartarites would have been seduced by the lunar way. maybe the rebellions would have been successful !

7 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

my understanding of how runes affects people is not right.

what I understand about the runes is that they could affect in different manners. The earh rune affects both Ernaldan and Maran gori. I m pretty sure they don't react in the same way facing the same situation 🙂 

 

Quote

To have a strong affinity with the Moon Rune is to seek spiritual liberation from the bondage of fear and ignorance.

one answer for that is to follow the lunar way. You don't fear the chaos and think you can use it against your ennemy

another one would be "I don't fear the chaos. Some Lunars are chaotics, but I don't fear their strange magics. I will lead the rebellion "

but also "I know that cults allow our community to be stable and happy, but I'm looking for something greater, finding new paths, exploring the god time in a way the priests don't teach us"

10 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

Which seems unlikely to me.

I agree that depending on what the player wants, the rolls may be a bad choice. In the same sense that rolling for characteristics when a player wish to play a sorcerer and obtain 10 in INT. I would expect a GM to ignore the roll in case of the player does not really want to play an illuminate. In another hand, players who may accept a radical change will have fun with it.

I would be happy to play a hero facing difficulties, accept them, use them against their fate and continue the tale. But I love desperate characters 😛

 

[David Scott]

28 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

but in game terms the roll is automatic.

It's not automatic. Per LW 94, Requirements for Initiation: To gain the Illumination skill, a person must first experience something that can trigger Illumination. If they don't have the experience, they don't have the skill. If they do have the experience, then it's 1/5 moon rune, plus magic category bonus, plus any bonus from the event.

So if Vasana is Mindblasted, she gets the skill at (Moon Rune 10) + 10% Magic category bonus + lets say a 3% from the mindblast = 23%. Note that she's been a vegetable as a result of the spell for at least week, it's a nasty spell.

In my games, no one has ever been targeted by these spells, although some players have Mindblast.

[glarkhag]

14 minutes ago, David Scott said:

It's not automatic. Per LW 94, Requirements for Initiation: To gain the Illumination skill, a person must first experience something that can trigger Illumination. If they don't have the experience, they don't have the skill. If they do have the experience, then it's 1/5 moon rune, plus magic category bonus, plus any bonus from the event.

So if Vasana is Mindblasted, she gets the skill at (Moon Rune 10) + 10% Magic category bonus + lets say a 3% from the mindblast = 23%. Note that she's been a vegetable as a result of the spell for at least week, it's a nasty spell.

In my games, no one has ever been targeted by these spells, although some players have Mindblast.

yes, that's right, it's involuntary if you get affected by one of those three spells listed.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, glarkhag said:

yes, that's right, it's involuntary if you get affected by one of those three spells listed.

Has it happened in your games or in anyones for that matter?

[glarkhag]

2 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Has it happened in your games or in anyones for that matter?

yes. I've had characters affected by both Mindblast and Madness.  The spells got thrown about in the White Bull campaign too  (See series 2 Episode 9 for example).

[glarkhag]

3 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

yes. I've had characters affected by both Mindblast and Madness.  The spells got thrown about in the White Bull campaign too  (See series 2 Episode 9 for example).

the third spell is less likely  😄 

[glarkhag]

5 hours ago, Jeff said:

In my experience, Moon Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Orlanthi. Just as the Air Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Esrolians or Pelorians. 

Can you expand on this a bit, Jeff?

Published material states that "Outside the Lunar Empire [the moon rune] has hardly any presence at all..." [Starter Book 2], reworded slightly in the sourcebook: "Outside of the Lunar Empire, she has little recognition..."

 

[jajagappa]

19 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

Published material states that "Outside the Lunar Empire [the moon rune] has hardly any presence at all..." [Starter Book 2], reworded slightly in the sourcebook: "Outside of the Lunar Empire, she has little recognition..."

There's a significant difference between the Moon Rune appearing as part of a cult or as part of standard symbology of the Elements vs. the components of your personal soul (which is what is represented by the Runes on your character sheet). No one is going around "measuring" your soul and saying "Oh! You're 50% in the Moon Rune!" (except maybe dwarfs, but they're weird anyway).

[glarkhag]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

There's a significant difference between the Moon Rune appearing as part of a cult or as part of standard symbology of the Elements vs. the components of your personal soul (which is what is represented by the Runes on your character sheet). No one is going around "measuring" your soul and saying "Oh! You're 50% in the Moon Rune!" (except maybe dwarfs, but they're weird anyway).

Thanks,  I see the meaning is different to how I read it.

I think there would be an awareness within a community of the presence of runic affinity within individuals, but I want to clarify my thoughts on that to explain why. 

Overall, I still think I have an underlying  question though (one that I haven't overtly asked yet).  I might be back after a reread to get you to help me understand something that troubles / confuses me about this. 

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, glarkhag said:

I think there would be an awareness within a community of the presence of runic affinity within individuals, but I want to clarify my thoughts on that to explain why. 

A given individual with a strong Moon Rune might variously be considered: magically strong, balanced, moody (waxing/waning in prevalent mood), meditative/contemplative, spiritual, etc.

If that's their primary Rune, then they'd definitely be seen in that way. If secondary, then how does that interact with the primary (e.g. Air, Earth)? With the former, it could balance out emotional/violent outbursts or might amplify if they have strongly cyclical moods (must like the overlap of the Red and Blue Moons on the tides). With the latter, it might make them more otherworld focused and less sensual; or they might alternate between sensuality and spirituality on a very regular basis. Lots of potential options for a PC, I think.

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, glarkhag said:

I think there would be an awareness within a community of the presence of runic affinity within individuals, but I want to clarify my thoughts on that to explain why. 

How are people going to measure this?  Soul Sight and Second Sight do not have this ability while the sorcerous spell Reveal Rune *might* depending on how strong the spell is.  So a Lhankoring who knows that particular spell might be aware of individual runic strengths but the general distribution of Moon Rune affinity within the population is largely a hidden variable.