How corrupt does a Lunar Chaotic Have to Be to Draw Attention?

[Professor Chaos]

IIRC The Rough Guide to Glamour has the Hideous Zoo for the visibly chaotic as well as Broo toilet attendants and an amphitheatre for those chaotics that get too out of hand or just want to put their chaos features to use in the entertainment industry.

[Darius West]

18 hours ago, Jeff said:

The bigger question is why the broo keep falling for this trick?

Hopefully not being too political here, but we might ask the same of the Russian Army at present.

As to the ethics of the situation, I'd say that it still counts as corruption to hire broos for anything.  I can make half an argument for it if the Lunars would have hired the broos instead, but still, I would have said the Lunars can have the broos and their diseases too.  

16 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I would say there are two levels of pragmatism :

1) you accept to fight with your enemy against a more powerful enemy. You expect the victory and more enemy losses

2) you refuse to fight with your enemy against a more powerful enemy, but you will find a strategem to send your enemy against the other one, let them destroy themselves and then destroy the survivors.

It is clear that, if I were a praxian, I will follow the second option, but there are people who are less adamant than me 🙂 

I can agree with this.  

I am actually surprised that the Lunars won.  If the Praxians had learned the lesson of the 1606 Lunar campaign into Prax, they should have kept the Sables split from the Lunars, or feinted them off and into ambushes, then hit and run the Lunar forces, or left the Lunar forces marooned in Moonbroth awaiting a battle that never came.  If the Lunars settled into a siege of New Pavis without subduing the Praxians, they would have been in diabolical trouble.  I think the Lunars learned plenty from 1606 and the Praxians forgot everything.

Edited June 1 by Darius West

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

As to the ethics of the situation, I'd say that it still counts as corruption to hire broos for anything. 

You seem to be viewing Waha as making sweeping pronouncements about wrong and right.  He is far more likely to have specific taboos if are harsher when violated but have plenty of scope for avoidance that our sort of laws do not.   He may say that Chaos is wrong which everybody agrees on and have a few ritual obligations about what to do with it.   But to make an alliance of convenience?  Not all that a problem.

I've gone through the Cult of Waha.  The most explicit obligation about Chaos is this (unchanged since Cults of Prax)

Quote

An Initiate always attempts to kill Chaos wherever found. If
unable, he must do his best to alert his tribe.

"alert the tribe" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.  If I see the Slop and Slime gang which is clearly too tough for me and alert the tribe, who do I alert?  The local Waha Khan?  Or the tribal Seven Mothers who say "No problem, we'll handle this".  Both are members of the Tribe (only the Pol Joni will not have any Seven Mothers) and both paths are legitimate responses to one's duties as an initiate of Waha.   What does Waha feel about it?  The survival of the Tribe comes first.  Not his cult but the Tribe.   He provides leadership along with his mother but the presence of other gods is essential to the survival of the Tribe.  Viewed in that light, a pragmatic response about Chaos is reasonable.

[French Desperate WindChild]

Waha, Waha, Waha, even if he is everywhere Waha is not everybody 🙂

Imo, even if (as in my previous post) I see both ways to use chaos against chaos, I don't see Praxians as "at the end of the day, we don't care"

Of course there are clans and even tribes as exception, but the culture of Praxian is based on Waha to organize the society, on Eiritha to live and on Storm Bull to fight.

The most famous sacred sites for Praxian are in large part dedicated to Eiritha and Storm Bull. Their values are Praxians values

I mean there is a cultural antagonism with any form of chaos. Yes if you don't dedicate your life to the bull, you don't have to fight against a too powerful ennemy (like Orlanth and others btw) and you must try to save yout life and to protect your clan

 

So yes you may meet politicians in the desert, yes you may find khans who deal with "little chaos" to fight "big chaos".

And you will obey them as they are your leaders.

But in the silence of the night, when you are in your wife/concubine arms, you may, perhaps, grumble against your leaders choice. You may fear how your gods and your ancestors will judge you to have done nothing against this ... compromise.

 

And maybe, you will dream. You will hear some rolling 10 faces stones, you will see a weird entity, called Peecee, taking your fate into their own hands  and you will leave your clan, to something more dangerous, but something, if you are lucky, smart and strong, able to offer you honor and pride. And you will hear your ancestors cheering you and spitting your compromised khan.

[Aurelius]

On 5/26/2024 at 6:01 PM, Jeff said:

Option 2. Chaos Gift is widely taken by the ambitious, the determined and the devout. Sure we don't see that much in the Lunar Provinces, but the  closer you get to places like Glamour, Blessed Torang or the Temples of the Reaching Moon the more you find people warped by Chaos. Demonic bros-folk are common in elite circles, and the lower classes hold their rulers in fear and religious awe (or pure terror among non-Lunarized cults). Broo-demon priestesses of Deezola or Hon-eel are held as proof of the Red Goddess' triumph and that Chaos is not necessarily evil, and the occasional broo-demon priest of Yelm serves in Glamour. Call this the Moorcockian Option.

In my Glorantha, which combines a bit of options 1, 2, and 3, the Yelm illuminate who displays visible marks of chaos is in deep trouble. No matter how much the Red Goddess professes her love for him, the Empire is still full of non-illuminated Solar worshippers, too many of whom will see this as an anathema worthy of suicidal acts. 

It's a bit of a Salman Rushdie situation, except that the religious fanatics have Sunspears. A great reason travel to, say, Dragon Pass and spend some quality time working as a mercenary far away from the deadly hustles of the capital.

But those very same orthodox yelmites are totally able to coexist with broo-demon Deezola priestesses. The limit is drawn at tainting the image of the perfect Sun Emperor. And maybe keeping the broo-demon at some distance.

Edited June 1 by Aurelius

[Rodney Dangerduck]

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

Viewed in that light, a pragmatic response about Chaos is reasonable.

Disagree.

Why not alert the 90 year old deaf and blind great grandmother to the threat of chaos and claim that meets your cult requirement to "alert the tribe"?  The clear intent is to alert the tribe to DO SOMETHING SERIOUS about the chaos.

As for allying with Broo to fight others to get them both killed, the requirement is to "always attempt to kill".  Not "sometimes you can ally with them and hope something bad happens to them".

The tribes who allied with Broo sinned against Waha, deserved their defeat, and deserve a plague upon their herd beasts.  Now, maybe they still made the right decision, they are alive, but they did wrong.  Not some "everybody does it, nothing to see here".

 

[Jeff]

29 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Disagree.

Why not alert the 90 year old deaf and blind great grandmother to the threat of chaos and claim that meets your cult requirement to "alert the tribe"?  The clear intent is to alert the tribe to DO SOMETHING SERIOUS about the chaos.

As for allying with Broo to fight others to get them both killed, the requirement is to "always attempt to kill".  Not "sometimes you can ally with them and hope something bad happens to them".

The tribes who allied with Broo sinned against Waha, deserved their defeat, and deserve a plague upon their herd beasts.  Now, maybe they still made the right decision, they are alive, but they did wrong.  Not some "everybody does it, nothing to see here".

 

You are welcome to be that annoying shaman in the tribe that the khans largely ignore when they figure out how the tribe is going to deal with danger and war. Just try not to get yourself exiled.

[Jeff]

36 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

In my Glorantha, which combines a bit of options 1, 2, and 3, the Yelm illuminate who displays visible marks of chaos is in deep trouble. No matter how much the Red Goddess professes her love for him, the Empire is still full of non-illuminated Solar worshippers, too many of whom will see this as an anathema worthy of suicidal acts. 

It's a bit of a Salman Rushdie situation, except that the religious fanatics have Sunspears. A great reason travel to, say, Dragon Pass and spend some quality time working as a mercenary far away from the deadly hustles of the capital.

But those very same orthodox yelmites are totally able to coexist with broo-demon Deezola priestesses. The limit is drawn at tainting the image of the perfect Sun Emperor. And maybe keeping the broo-demon at some distance.

Over and over again, there seems to be an assumption that Yelm cultists are more likely to be orthodox fanatics than Seven Mothers cultists or anyone else. In my opinion, they are no more likely to be fanatics than ANY OTHER cult member.

Yelm worship is about revering the sun's life-giving power (hence the reason it has the Fertility Rune), while also revering his journey through the Land of the Dead (hence the Death Rune). He is both removed from the mundane world and fully engaged in it. He is the source of Light and Fire. His representative on earth is the Solar Emperor, a position that has existed since the God Time. The Red Moon is his daughter, and her son is the Solar Emperor.

Now if I am not illuminated, if Yelm Imperator says something I don't understand - it doesn't matter. He is by Yelm's divine order my superior and should obey him. If he has a third eye, or can spit fire, or a tail, or explodes upon death - it doesn't matter so long as he remains in contact with Yelm.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

11 minutes ago, Jeff said:

You are welcome to be that annoying shaman in the tribe that the khans largely ignore when they figure out how the tribe is going to deal with danger and war. Just try not to get yourself exiled.

A shaman named Cassandra might be fun...

In our games, the Allied Spirits of the Khans might be raising questions about the Broo alliance as a "conscience", Jiminy Cricket style.  And often get ignored.

[John Biles]

On 5/31/2024 at 10:05 AM, Jeff said:

Waha hates Chaos, true, and seeks it destruction, but there is nothing in the cult that prevents Waha from encouraging Chaos to die fighting Waha's foes. Of course, Waha will then turn on the weakened Chaos if possible.

The bigger question is why the broo keep falling for this trick?

Broo tend to be driven by a mixture of insanity, lust and hate which means that even if they see the trick coming, they can't help themselves, the way people who know pizza will make them sick eat pizza anyway.

 

[Aurelius]

34 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Over and over again, there seems to be an assumption that Yelm cultists are more likely to be orthodox fanatics than Seven Mothers cultists or anyone else. In my opinion, they are no more likely to be fanatics than ANY OTHER cult member.

The way I've always read Yelm is much about purity, and messing that up is the big deal. A Sun Lord tainted with chaos is reminiscent of Lodril crawling in mud ... except, to an uninitiated mind, a thousand times worse. That's why in my Glorantha that would be particularly bad for a yelmite, not as much for most other cults. 

The problem with the Salman Rushdie situation is also that it doesn't really matter what most Yelm followers think ... if the zealous orthodox conservative wing exists. You still gotta hide from the lunatics.

(But I'm guilty as charged, too -- I do also think that a lot of the Dara Happan Yelm worship is conservative and orthodox after all those years... and I do have a bit of difficulty fitting that fertility rune into it!)

[EricW]

10 hours ago, metcalph said:

You seem to be viewing Waha as making sweeping pronouncements about wrong and right.  He is far more likely to have specific taboos if are harsher when violated but have plenty of scope for avoidance that our sort of laws do not.   He may say that Chaos is wrong which everybody agrees on and have a few ritual obligations about what to do with it.   But to make an alliance of convenience?  Not all that a problem.

I've gone through the Cult of Waha.  The most explicit obligation about Chaos is this (unchanged since Cults of Prax)

"alert the tribe" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.  If I see the Slop and Slime gang which is clearly too tough for me and alert the tribe, who do I alert?  The local Waha Khan?  Or the tribal Seven Mothers who say "No problem, we'll handle this".  Both are members of the Tribe (only the Pol Joni will not have any Seven Mothers) and both paths are legitimate responses to one's duties as an initiate of Waha.   What does Waha feel about it?  The survival of the Tribe comes first.  Not his cult but the Tribe.   He provides leadership along with his mother but the presence of other gods is essential to the survival of the Tribe.  Viewed in that light, a pragmatic response about Chaos is reasonable.

Ok a group of cacodemon worshipping ogres approach the tribe, openly identify themselves, and request a permanent alliance with them living with the tribe in peace so their combined forces can fend off marauding Broos who threaten all of them. A small number of ogres have visible chaos features. They offer to use all their magics in defence of the alliance, including their chaos magic.

The seven mothers group point out the ogres have behaved themselves for years, only eating hostile intruders, and they should be given a chance to contribute to the welfare of everyone.

All detect truth or detect honor style magics indicate the offer is sincere.

What does the Khan do?

Edited June 1 by EricW

[Aurelius]

But that is a good aside, worthy of its own discussion -- how fanaticism and orthodoxy works among different cults? This could make an interesting X/Y graph ... where Lunars might turn out to be a bit less fanatic and orthodox than, say, Sun and Storm cults.

In my mind: 
Urox -- Not orthodox, but stupidly stupidly fanatic.
Humankt -- A bit orthodox and generally quite fanatic.
Yelm -- Generally very orthodox, with fanaticism ranging from 0 to 100 depending on the individual.
Orlanth -- Not very orthodox, with fanaticism ranging from 0 to 100 depending on the individual.
Seven Mothers -- Not orthodox at all, generally not fanatic at all.
Danfive Xaron -- Fanaticism ranging from negative to extreme by the time they make Overseer.
Irrippi Ontor, Etyries -- Not very orthodox, not very fanatic. 
Lhankor Mhy, Issaries -- A bit more orthodox, a bit more fanatic. 

[metcalph]

21 minutes ago, EricW said:

Ok a group of cacodemon worshipping ogres approach the tribe, openly identify themselves, and request a permanent alliance with them living with the tribe in peace so their combined forces can fend off marauding Broos who threaten all of them.

Ogres openly identifying themselves as Cacodemon worshippers and seeking a permanent alliance?  Yeah, right.  Come up with a more credible scenario next time.  

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The clear intent is to alert the tribe to DO SOMETHING SERIOUS about the chaos.

And making a temporary alliance against an outland foe (such as the Lunar Empire) in the hope that the chaotics will be much weaker does meet the standard of "DO SOMETHING SERIOUS" whether you like it or not.

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

As for allying with Broo to fight others to get them both killed, the requirement is to "always attempt to kill".  Not "sometimes you can ally with them and hope something bad happens to them".

Quoting the requirement without the qualifications and the exception is clearly arguing in bad faith.  The whole sentence which I already quoted above gives a much more nuanced response such as "wherever found" and "if unable".  If a Waha initiate sees a lone Broo, then he's bound to kill it no problems and the duty to alert the tribe does not arise.  The problem is what happens if the Chaos is too big to kill safely (ie more than 20% of the attacking warriors will die horribly and the tribe falls apart).  What does the tribe do then?  

 

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The tribes who allied with Broo sinned against Waha, deserved their defeat, and deserve a plague upon their herd beasts.  

There's nothing in the sources about a sin against Waha.  Refrain from making material up, please.  

[Rodney Dangerduck]

14 minutes ago, metcalph said:

The problem is what happens if the Chaos is too big to kill safely (ie more than 20% of the attacking warriors will die horribly and the tribe falls apart).  What does the tribe do then?  

Ignoring a large tough band of Chaos is fine and pragmatic.  While keeping a watchful eye of course.

Making an alliance with Broo is a step too far IMHO. 

Why don't the pragmatic Praxians ally with the Lunars against the Broo?  What's are peoples' thoughts on that?

 

[Darius West]

18 hours ago, metcalph said:

You seem to be viewing Waha as making sweeping pronouncements about wrong and right.  He is far more likely to have specific taboos if are harsher when violated but have plenty of scope for avoidance that our sort of laws do not.   He may say that Chaos is wrong which everybody agrees on and have a few ritual obligations about what to do with it.   But to make an alliance of convenience?  Not all that a problem.

Waha's dad is Stormbull.  Does Waha differ substantially from his father's view of chaos, or is any chaos all chaos?  

Admittedly Waha is not as dangerous a warrior as Stormbull is against chaos, but he does require a pilgrimage from every Khan to go to Devil's Marsh to kill Chaos.

Now, that being said, clearly in 1610, the Bisons made an alliance of convenience with the Broos.  I can see one way in which it might be justifiable.  The Lunar Empire is chaotic in the eyes of Praxians, and therefore they are naturally going to ally with the broos if they get the chance.  Therefore if the broos can be made to think the Lunars are their enemies, then they will fight the Lunars, and the Lunars will be denied a local chaotic ally in Prax.  There is nothing that says you can't trick Chaos into destroying other Chaos, but you are obliged to then heartlessly betray them rather than paying them.

[Joerg]

4 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Waha's dad is Stormbull.  Does Waha differ substantially from his father's view of chaos, or is any chaos all chaos?  

Admittedly Waha is not as dangerous a warrior as Stormbull is against chaos, but he does require a pilgrimage from every Khan to go to Devil's Marsh to kill Chaos.

Lunars might even interprete this as "the Waha cult cultivates Chaos in the Devil's Marsh to hunt for their leadership rites." And is this completely wrong? The Orlanthi Summons of Evil brings Chaos into the world for ritual purposes, leaving a lasting damage in the summoning ground even if the animated effigy is duly destroyed.

 

7 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Now, that being said, clearly in 1610, the Bisons made an alliance of convenience with the Broos.

This is an approved technique in Waha games, even if it comes with a penalty to the morale of the tribe which brings them. Broos are among the most powerful shock troops in Prax, rivaled only by manifest tribal deities.

[Mao]

22 hours ago, Aurelius said:

The way I've always read Yelm is much about purity, and messing that up is the big deal. A Sun Lord tainted with chaos is reminiscent of Lodril crawling in mud ... except, to an uninitiated mind, a thousand times worse. That's why in my Glorantha that would be particularly bad for a yelmite, not as much for most other cults.

 

Yeah I always assumed that Dara Happans don't have a specific understanding of Chaos as something super terrible bad like Theyalans and Praxians do, that doesn't mean they're cool with it as a matter of course. It's another impurity, like those awful hill barbarians who worship Yelm's murderer and also have the temerity to leave their thighs bare.
That being said, I understand that if Yelm Imperator can make Chaos subject to him then it has a place in his order of things. That does not mean every one in the Yelm Imperator cult absolutely loves Chaos, they just understand that Yelm's Order on earth is so perfect (or perhaps to any of them with a better understanding of the in-time history of their own cult: perfectible). It's a massive vote of confidence in the favour of Moonson as being Yelm's viceroy on Earth that he can make even monstrosities like the Crimson Bat submit to him.

What I think is important to understand, or rather for us to learn because we don't have the Solar Cult book yet, is the degree to which the present Lunar Empire Yelm Imperator cult is actually committed to maintaining Yelmic ritual purity. If most of them are illuminated then do they even bother? Does this concern some Yelm Imperator cult members? In the Empire does complete immunity to spirits of reprisal and cult restriction mean that they completely ignore the requirements of ritual purity necessary for the cult or do they comply with it through ceremonies of purification before worship on holy days? If the Gold Proxy was illuminated (and he almost certainly probably is) does he maintain ritual purity even though he doesn't have to? Signs point to yes, The Lunar Way book says it verbatim 'The Gold Proxy maintains Yelmic purity, both ritual and personal, so that the Red Emperor in Glamour does not have to.' (p. 115)

So we know for a fact that Yelmic purity is still important, what we don't know is whether changes to ones outward physical appearance (for example through chaos gift) conflict with cult restrictions or spirits of reprisal. Per Jeff in this thread it seems they do not as long as they in contact with Yelm:

 

22 hours ago, Jeff said:

Now if I am not illuminated, if Yelm Imperator says something I don't understand - it doesn't matter. He is by Yelm's divine order my superior and should obey him. If he has a third eye, or can spit fire, or a tail, or explodes upon death - it doesn't matter so long as he remains in contact with Yelm.

That 'in contact with Yelm' is holding up a lot of the weight here. If the majority of the Yelm Imperator cult are illuminated, or at least the ones in important positions are then they can still be in contact with Yelm no matter how many eyes they grow. But we still know for a fact that the Gold Proxy, who is essentially the second most important Yelm Imperator priest in the entire Lunar Empire (not withstanding people with outsized influence and importance in theatres of operations like Tatius the Bright) maintains ritual and personal purity.
To me this implies that irrespective of chaos features, an illuminated Yelm Imperator priest will probably still choose to maintain personal purity in their actions and conduct. As far as the Empire is concerned someone with clear chaos gifts still choosing to engage with that lifestyle of purity is a vote of confidence in the Empire's favour as truly being an Ordered society.

I have to run off soon but I'd like to go into this more later.
tl;dr Valid points, we need the Yelm Imperator cult writeup to see rules on ritual and personal purity in the cult restrictions/spirits of reprisal and just how far these are flouted by illuminates in the cult and whether or not that's considered a problem or not by people inside (and perhaps outside too) the cult.

Edited June 2 by Mao
spelling mistakes, clarity

[mfbrandi]

12 hours ago, Aurelius said:

The way I’ve always read Yelm is much about purity, and messing that up is the big deal. A Sun Lord tainted with chaos is reminiscent of Lodril crawling in mud ... except, to an uninitiated mind, a thousand times worse.

But isn’t Yelm supposed to be the middle brother — the balance point between Lodril and Dayzatar — and the reconciler of opposites? “Yelm’s justice” — and the symbol of justice is …

One might almost see that as built from and a decomposed .

Edited June 2 by mfbrandi
' -> ’

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

Waha's dad is Stormbull.  Does Waha differ substantially from his father's view of chaos, or is any chaos all chaos?  

Umath's Dad is Aether so I'm not sure what the parentage proves.

Waha's feelings about Chaos are well-known and have not changed.  But one can have an alliance of convenience with people you hate - the second World War being a good example.

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

Admittedly Waha is not as dangerous a warrior as Stormbull is against chaos, but he does require a pilgrimage from every Khan to go to Devil's Marsh to kill Chaos.

Yeah but he doesn't require a Khan to behave like a Storm Bull worshipper whenever the Broos are nearby.  The test always is:

1.  Can I kill them safely?  Yes: Do so.  No:  Goto 2.

2.  Can the clan do so safely?  Yes: Do so.  No:  Goto 3.

3.  Are they threatening a holy place?  Yes: Summon the others.  No: Go to 4.

4.  Keep track of it.  Let other members of the tribe know.  Maybe tell the other Praxians in exchange for some favour.  Tell the local Storm Bulls if they're not stupid enough to get themselves killed because dead storm Bulls are no good for the living.

And then when the outsiders (Lunars, EWF, Celestial Empire, Kralori, Pure Horse) invade.

1.  Is there Broos nearby that might be of aid to the outsiders?  (It's irrelevant whether the outsiders hate chaos or not - the Praxians wouldn't know that for sure or even believe their claims)  No: Do nothing.  Yes: Go to 2.

2.  Can they be disposed of?  Yes:  (Doesn't happen or else it would have already been done).  No:  Go to 3.

3.  Keep the local Storm Bulls drunk and stoned.  Use careful emissaries to negotiate with the broos for their help in battle.  Draw up plans to betray them afterwards.

On all cases, the Praxian hatred of chaos is a leading considering in their decisions and there is never any suggestion that it is wrong.  Even those Praxians who worship the Seven Mothers would view the Broos of the wastes as dangers to be sadly put down.

 

 

 

[Malin]

To be fair, these discussions are probably what is going on inside the tribes as well. While some people (of the politicking kind) might be happy to use chaos as a weapon and plan to kill the survivors afterward, others might see it as a great ill and point to that act as the cause of any bad luck befalling the tribe afterward. And, most would go along with what the Khan decided as long as he's successful...

[Rodney Dangerduck]

7 hours ago, metcalph said:

But one can have an alliance of convenience with people you hate - the second World War being a good example.

Churchill, unlike the Praxians, did not actively seek(1) an alliance with Stalin / Broos.  Britain even considered aiding Finland in 1939.  It fell into an alliance of convenience with Russia after Barbarossa in a moment of desperation.

Remember that Praxian tribes have allied with Broos many times in many battles.  Not just against Lunars, but against other Tribes.

Now, if you are saying that the Praxian - Broo alliance is like the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact, I agree.  It has the same level of morality as well.

 

(1) possibly depending on your exact definition of "actively seek".  But I'm not going to spend the effort to elaborate in pages of details...

Edited June 2 by Rodney Dangerduck
added footnote

[John Biles]

17 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

But isn’t Yelm supposed to be the middle brother — the balance point between Lodril and Dayzatar — and the reconciler of opposites? “Yelm’s justice” — and the symbol of justice is …

One might almost see that as built from and a decomposed .

Yelm is Emperor because he is pure enough to interact with the world without becoming impure like Lodril did.

Yelm is Emperor because he is not so pure that the only way to maintain it is to run away from the world and go hide way up in the sky like Dayzatar.

Any interaction with the world makes perfect purity impossible, but you have to maintain a certain level of purity to not turn into an Earthworm.

So I would see Yelmite purity as basically a set of restrictions that give up some pleasures without requiring you to live in a monastery to follow them all.

Having Chaos Features feels to me like 'too impure', but most Yelmites would avoid  you if they're not in a position to pass judgement on you.  Rather than just flat out murder you because that's ritually impure too.

I think the whole Yelmite idea of justice where you can only pass judgement on those rightfully under your authority has to come into play here.    Vigilante justice is ritually impure.

 

[Darius West]

22 hours ago, metcalph said:

 Tell the local Storm Bulls if they're not stupid enough to get themselves killed because dead storm Bulls are no good for the living.

It is very typical of people to see Stormbulls as stupid, but most of them aren't.  Yes, they may self-medicate with alcohol from the PTSD of facing chaos, but that isn't the same as being lackwits.  Remember, large proportion of the Praxian population are pygmies, and at least 5% of them are Stormbulls who have likely never used a berserk spell in their lives.

Edited June 3 by Darius West