Thantar Tarnished Silver

[EricW]

33 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

How hot is Oakfed?

Pure silver has a melting point of 961.8°C (1,763.24°F)...

Ah but chaos is Oakfed’s mystical enemy - the fire is as hot as it needs to be to scorch away the chaos.

[mfbrandi]

9 hours ago, EricW said:

Ah but chaos is Oakfed’s mystical enemy - the fire is as hot as it needs to be to scorch away the chaos.

Can Gloranthan arsonists use Thanatarnished silver as an accelerant or intensifier of their blazes?

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Curious why not, are vampires' desires different than real world vampires in Glorantha?

my point is to not consider the sensual/sexual approach of this irl version of the vampire as the characteristic of all vampires.

Imo glorantha vampire basics is the fear of death;

when the "dracula/lestat/..." vampire is a desire of power.

Then you have the simplest path [power -> sexual].

And if you follow the path, you have

station 1 = buffy's vampire (except few, vampires are just violence and dumb machine),

station 2 = dracula (a very powerful evil bu twith a perverse love, its weakness)

station 3 = twilight (oh the beautiful strong silent type who refuse to be a predator and is just a powerful lover who sometimes needs blood..)

but that's just one perspective, the one who attract people to watch. IRL vampire propose other concepts (nosferatu for example)

I think vampire the masquerade (and other rpg) offer different interesting ways not all based on this power/sexual

 

So yes one vampire in (my) glorantha could be "defined" (or have a good part) of sexual perversion, but not because it is a vampire definition, just because it is its character. Some would just fear everything, some would look for pure domination, some would be interested by knowledge, or power, or anything

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The next question is if they have no "sexual desires" couldn't they just drink animal blood and forget all the secrecy stuff. Be out in the open and drink cow blood or something?

i think that the point is not the blood as material. it is a magic process. I think you can use any sentient blood (like troll or nymph in physical form for example)

I see the blood as the shuttle bringing you the essence that feeds you. Typically I would not allow a human herd as source of food, but I would allow a awake bison

 

(again it is my glorantha, i m not telling you what is the canon or what must be yours)

[French Desperate WindChild]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Maybe vampires become illuminated and decide that they want to be professors in a LM temple and continue to teach for centuries.

the only question then is does a temple accept such teacher ? But yes illuminate or no, a vampire may desire to become teacher (a kind of power after all, or a way to "attract" new food)

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How hot is Oakfed?

Pure silver has a melting point of 961.8°C (1,763.24°F)...

There is a ruin in Prax that has been melted to slag on the surface from Oakfed's attention. Assuming mudbricks or limestone, we are at temperatures well above 1000°C.

 

15 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Thanatar heads — especially eggheads, which are the most valuable to the knowledge thief — generate hydrogen sulfide due to some anaerobic rot going on deep inside them. Even the Thanatari don’t like the smell, and that is why they favour silver: the gas reacts with the silver to form black silver sulfide — no more stinkdamp.

To improve the efficiency of this system, the silver is cursed to make it attract hydrogen sulfide. Without Divine Intervention (or even heavier magic) to remove the curse, all fixes for black Thanatarnished silver are temporary: the cleaned silver will just attract more H₂S and blacken again.

While I make a distincion between aerobic and anaerobic corrosion of metals and genesis of ores, and while fermentation (including decomposition of once living tissue) and farts should smell of foul eggs, weeks old fish and other such noxious fumes, I prefer to use real world chemistry as inspiration for (usually lame) myths rather than carrying it over as is.

If you insist on a real world comparison, tarnished silver is like real world aluminium contaminated with small amounts of mercury, preventing the metal surface from creating a layer of protection between aerial oxygen and the metal. As the aluminium is used up growing needles of alumina, the mercury migrates further into the metal, exposing more of it to the air. The Thanatari tarnishing of silver alters its interaction with light rather than with chemicals. (But it is not used for photography!)

[mfbrandi]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would an illuminated Thanatar with no heads still attract H2S?

IMO, it is the heads that smell and the cursed — and not yet fully blackened — silver that unfailingly attracts the smell°, so a cultist with no silver and no heads would be OK, even if not illuminated.

But anyone with cursed silver that is even a little bit untarnished would find the smell following them, cultist or not, illuminated or not. Thanatar-cursed silver is worthless: either it is black or it is turning black and surrounded by a stinky miasma. You can keep scraping the tarnish off, but every time you do, the silver gets thinner; eventually, you are left with nothing but your tears, a nervous laugh, and a poor reputation.

 

—————————————————————————
° From the Void if no natural sources are available, as its cursed nature trumps its practical value as an air freshener. Gods and cultists rarely see eye-to-eye, and headless Tien is oblivious to the smell.

[mfbrandi]

6 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I prefer to use real world chemistry as inspiration for (usually lame) myths rather than carrying it over as is.

Inspiration is what it was. IMHO, “Thanatar silver is black or a stench follows it around” works even if Gloranthan chemistry is unlike ours or unknown to most or all Gloranthans. But it was just an improvisation to be picked up or discarded to taste. 😉

[mfbrandi]

13 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Thanatari tarnishing of silver alters its interaction with light rather than with chemicals. (But it is not used for photography!)

Now where is the fun in that? Having set the thing up, don’t you want Thanatari leaving “Polaroids” of garrottings at the scenes of their crimes? 😉

[mfbrandi]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:38 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I think that you can put sexual imagery with any cult, put perversion when god is perverse

If we go for Nontraya = Vivamort, can’t we write in sexual perversion from the beginning? That doesn’t mean you have to ditch fear of “real” death as the prime motivator — there is a sex–death confusion, and desire for dead (or dormant) Ernalda is associated in our vampire god’s diseased mind with power over death. I think of Art Garfunkel as the vampire lord — is that wrong?

Spoiler

[EricW]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Can Gloranthan arsonists use Thanatarnished silver as an accelerant or intensifier of their blazes?

Be a bit like gasoline on a BBQ - be sure you don't get your hands tainted by the chaos you are using 🙂

[MOB]

On 8/31/2024 at 5:37 AM, Erol of Backford said:

That is the Vampire of the Old Sun Dome's suit of armour. He doesn't wear it any more because he's forgotten about it, along with most other things. The silver armour is only tarnished because it hasn't been polished for literally decades - the blackening here has nothing to do with the Thanatar cult (although player character wouldn't know that). It might take a while, but the armor would polish up nicely using whatever mundane processes Gloranthans employ to keep their silverware shiny. 

[Ali the Helering]

18 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How hot is Oakfed?

Moderately cute?

[metcalph]

I think that if Silver can reflect light, tarnished silver reflects darkness or darklight.

[svensson]

It's not 'silver' it magical silver that's been soaking in Darklight for a year.

Which is why I think it would take 2+ points of Rune magic to melt it.

[Erol of Backford]

Would an Issaries "Spell Trading" traded "Create Head" ritual used by an Issarries priest make them chaotic? (Let's assume they could cast the spell successfully, somehow even if you don't like the idea...)

Would they be a Thanatari even though they are not in the cult? Maybe they could be a lay member similar to 

If they made a head with a silver garrott would it tarnish along with other silver they touched?

Could you imagine a Golden Tongue sashaying in a Great Market with a belt of broo (and or other) heads.

Besides Tap, is there a magical way to shrink heads in Glorantha?

Imagine a Rune Lord with finger-puppet-sized heads sewn into a glove or something?

If a Thanatar cultist walks through a market and touches several silver items as they stoll, what is the time frame for those items to become tarnished or would it take a certain amount of time in possession before tarnishing?

 

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would an Issaries ‘Spell Trading’ traded ‘Create Head’ ritual used by an Issaries priest make them chaotic?

If that falls somewhere between “handle Chaos tools” and “initiate to Thanatar”, then 10–15% chance of an immediate Chaos taint?

But what is a little Chaos between friends? 😉

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If a Thanatar cultist walks through a market and touches several silver items as they stroll …

I like the idea of an Issaries trader who has traded Thanatari spells — whether or not the merchant is herself the end user — finding that all the silver she touches turns irrevocably black. Better than all this Chaos-taint nonsense and turning-into-a-broo crap, but what does it do to their business? On the one hand, their lucre really is now utterly filthy and those lovely moon pendants are junk, but on the other, it boosts their rep for being able to get hold of magic other traders cannot or will not. “Watch … Doubt me, now?”

Edited September 10 by mfbrandi
verb forms

[Erol of Backford]

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

If that falls somewhere between “handle Chaos tools” and “initiate to Thanatar”, then 10–15% chance of an immediate Chaos taint?

I'd say you'd be more like 5% for one "Create Head" but what is a little chaos between heads.

Maybe there is a "Tarnish Silver" spell you could mess with others selling silver...

[mfbrandi]

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Maybe there is a “Tarnish Silver” spell you could mess with others selling silver...

I was thinking more that Thanatari silver was contagious — drop one in someone’s purse and all their silver turns black, too. Did I remember that or make it up?

If that is too much, an enchantment to make it so once the Thanatar cult has blackened it. But who would teach such magic?

Presumably, the Lunars have a choice:

• either blackened silver is legal tender (people think they are soft on Chaos, anyway),
• or blackening silver is debasing the currency and punishable by … something nasty.

😉

[Erol of Backford]

9 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Did I remember that or make it up?

One bad apple.

[mfbrandi]

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

One bad apple

Well, I infamously misremembered that one! 😉

[Erol of Backford]

Maria was my little crush but not as much as Linda and not even close to Olivia...

What is the equivalent Runequest of Xanadu?

If a Thantari is at a party how close would they need to be to tarnish silver or do they actually have to hold it? As it seems to me there is some sort of chemical reaction going on which may in fact be caused by a gas that has clung to the clothing/body/hair whatever of a Thantari.

Per anther thread would this Thantari chemical be chaotic and detected as such... another rabbit hole.

 

[soltakss]

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Would an Issaries "Spell Trading" traded "Create Head" ritual used by an Issarries priest make them chaotic? (Let's assume they could cast the spell successfully, somehow even if you don't like the idea...)

Trading and gaining Create Head does not make the Issaries cultist Chaotic.

Casting the spell, however, gives a cumulative 3% chance of gaining some kind of Chaos Feature.

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Would they be a Thanatari even though they are not in the cult? Maybe they could be a lay member similar to 

No. Casting a spell does not give access to a cult.

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

If they made a head with a silver garrott would it tarnish along with other silver they touched?

No, as they are not Thanatari.

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Could you imagine a Golden Tongue sashaying in a Great Market with a belt of broo (and or other) heads.

In Dorastor, sure. Elsewhere, highly unlikely.

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Besides Tap, is there a magical way to shrink heads in Glorantha?

Adull Headshrink, from Dorastor Land of Doom p71, has a way of shrinking heads so they aren't attackable on the hit location table.

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Imagine a Rune Lord with finger-puppet-sized heads sewn into a glove or something

Finger Heads are a great idea.

On 9/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

If a Thanatar cultist walks through a market and touches several silver items as they stoll, what is the time frame for those items to become tarnished or would it take a certain amount of time in possession before tarnishing?

I'd say that it takes time to tarnish silver. In any case, Thanatar treat silver as taboo. There is a description pf a Thanatar cultist who spits on silver coins that he is offered.

On 9/12/2024 at 3:33 PM, Erol of Backford said:

What is the equivalent Runequest of Xanadu?

The song that Jar Eel sings? 

 

On 9/12/2024 at 3:33 PM, Erol of Backford said:

If a Thantari is at a party how close would they need to be to tarnish silver or do they actually have to hold it? As it seems to me there is some sort of chemical reaction going on which may in fact be caused by a gas that has clung to the clothing/body/hair whatever of a Thantari.

Per anther thread would this Thantari chemical be chaotic and detected as such... another rabbit hole.

I think that Thanatari have to hold it, or own it, for a while.

[Darius West]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:31 PM, Erol of Backford said:

I was looking for something real world or not that had "shocking imagery" was thinking most people wouldn't walk down the street with say porn on their t-shirt?

So if players wore it in a city they'd be in trouble?

Try this on then... A lot of armor people wear is salvaged and resold.  You won't do well wandering into a city wearing reconditioned Lunar armor in anti-Lunar areas.  Similarly, wearing armor of Sartarite origin might not be a popular sight in the streets of Furthest.

Edited Tuesday at 12:18 PM by Darius West