Classic Fantasy 2nd Edition Notes

[threedeesix]

Just to clarify, I'm talking about physical books. I like physical books for actual play, I find printouts messy and tablets or laptops a pain in the ass at the game table. I'd go so far as to say I'd be okay with only the core rules in a book and the monsters in PDF, if need be.

Obviously it makes no difference for a PDF only, but I thought we were talking about the dead tree version - or are we not? Now I'm confused.

Classic Fantasy hopes to kill some trees. Not confirmed yet. But thats the plan.

Rod (Lumberjack) Leary

[SDLeary]

Rod (Lumberjack) Leary

For some reason, I feel like breaking into song!

SDLeary

[frogspawner]

I have yet to decide if hit points will be (SIZ+CON) or (SIZ+CON/2) yet. ... I do know I am using locations with seperate hit points. I don't know if I also want a separate hit point total to keep track of or not.

I recommend Overall Hit Points only. It's more "Classic" (and less admin).

Tracking both types is a pain, and unnecessary. You can still have the grittiness of Hit Locations...

Use (SIZ+CON/2) HP, but 0hp doesn't mean Death. Characters stay alive until -10hp (that's also "Classic"). But on Zero or less you roll for the hit location - and it goes out-of-action. Maybe they can fight on, maybe not. And at a certain negative (I use -4) they get a Major Wound related to that Hit Location. (I use a table - and it's on the wiki, I think. Actually it has Serious wounds and Critical wounds, for use at -4 and -7 respectively).

[Mankcam]

So... is Atomic Age Cthulhu

Horror Roleplaying in the 1950s Chaosium Inc.

repacing Astounding Adventures?

Chaosium.com: News - Astounding Adventures!

They both appear to be Pulp settings, with Astounding Adventures covering the 30s/40s period and Atomic Age Cthulhu covering the 40s/50s period. Quite a number of rules would be relevant to both settings, I just wonder if its all one product now?

[frogspawner]

So... is Atomic Age Cthulhu ...

...in the wrong thread? I think so!

[frogspawner]

Couldn't find the wiki anymore (and a previous posting is unreadable due to the new site s/w) so here's what I use currently...

SERIOUS & GRIEVOUS INJURIES TABLE

Characters struck down to -4HP or less suffer a Serious Injury, or a Grievous Injury if struck down to -7HP or less.

Consult this table, rolling D6 and cross-referencing hit location (S=Serious, G=Grievous):

HEAD

1. Chin S: Jaw broken [level 5]: lose/break d20 teeth, -1 CHA. G: Spurt! Spurt! Spurt! Carotid artery slashed: bleed 1hp/sec (light).

2. Nose S: Nose broken [level 2]: lose 1 CHA. G: Nose broken and brain damaged: lose 3 lots of d6 INT/WIS/DEX.

3. Skull S: Skull fractured [level 4]: concussion (amnesia, fainting, etc). G: Skull broken [level 10]: coma until 'Rest' period complete.

4. Ear (L/R) S: Ear sliced/ripped off: deafened on that side. G: ...and skull broken (see above).

5. Eye (L/R) S: Eye blinded. G: Eye destroyed (50% for other eye, too) and skull fractured (above).

6. Neck S: It's a bleeder! Jugular vein pierced: bleed 1hp/rnd (light). G: Neck severed/broken: bleed/choke 1hp/sec until dead (critical!).

CHEST

1. Liver S: Ribs broken (d6): see below. G: Liver failure [level 3]: bleed 1hp/hour (serious). Survivors lose d3 CON.

2. Lungs S: Ribs broken (d6): see below. G: Lung punctured [level 3]: bleed 1hp/turn (light). Survivors lose 1 CON.

3,4. Ribs S: Ribs broken (d6): movement painful (half walking speed, max.) [level 2]. G: Ribcage smashed [level 8]: never mends.

5. Shoulder S: Collarbone broken [level 2]. G: Arm severed at shoulder: bleed 1hp/rnd for 10mins (R serious/L critical).

6. Heart S: Ribs broken (d6): see below. G: Heart punctured [level 4]: bleed 1hp/sec (critical). Survivors lose d6 CON.

ABDOMEN

1. Groin S: "Ouch!" Genitals damaged: bleed 1hp/min for 3 mins. G: "What a rip off!" Genitals lost: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins [level 4].

2. Hip (L/R) S: Hip broken [level 9]: permanent limp, move reduced by 1". G: Pelvis shattered [level 10]: crippled permanently.

3,4. Guts S: Intestinal damage: bleed 1hp/min for 10 mins [level 4]. G: Eviscerated: bleed 1hp/turn [level 6]. Lose d3 STR & CON.

5. Stomach S: Stomach punctured: bleed 1hp/hour [level 4]. G: Stomach ruptured: bleed 1hp/turn [level 6].

6. Kidneys S: Kidney damage: bleed 1hp/min for 10 mins [level 4]. G: Kidney failure - bleed 1hp/turn (serious). Lose d3 CON.

ARM

1. Hand S: Fingers sliced/ripped off (d4). G: Fingers lost and hand smashed [level 6] - permanently useless.

2. Wrist S: Wrist broken [level 4]. G: Hand severed at wrist - bleed 1hp/min for 1 min* (light).

3,4. Forearm S: Forearm broken [level 4]. G: Forearm severed - bleed 1hp/min for 3 min* (light).

5. Elbow S: Elbow broken [level 5]. G: Arm severed at elbow - bleed 1hp/min for 3 mins* (light).

6. Upper Arm S: "How humerus!" Upper arm broken [level 5]. G: Upper arm severed: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins* (light).

LEG

1. Foot S: Toes (d6) torn off: permanent limp, move reduced by 1". G: Foot shattered [level 5]: crippled permanently, move halved.

2. Ankle S: Ankle broken [level 3]. G: Foot severed -bleed 1hp/min for 3 mins* (light), move halved.

3,4. Shin S: Shinbone broken [level 6]. G: Lower leg severed: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins* (light), move halved.

5. Knee S: Knee broken [level 7]. G: Leg severed at the knee: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins* (light), move halved.

6. Thigh S: Thighbone broken [level 8]. G: Upper leg severed: bleed 1hp/min for 10 mins* (light), move halved.

Breaks: Rest for d3xLevel days (Move:CONx5 or 1hp) & Recover for Level weeks.

* Crushed limbs bleed until amputated, or given the indicated level of healing

[threedeesix]

Hey Frogspawner,

These are awesome. I'll be honest, I won't be using them for CF 2nd ed. I really don't want to add yet another hit point/damage system and further divide the existing fan base, but I do intend on using it in some of my BRP home games.

Thanks for taking the time to post that. Consider it grabbed.

Rod

[Questbird]

Sounds like a good idea to me, also having a seperate " monster manual " would add to the old school flavour....The MM was the first gaming supplement I ever bought.

I agree. The current 'monster manuals' available for BRP are heavily slanted towards Runequest or Call of Cthulhu. An alternative 'monster manual' might sell independently of CF. I also second the desire for a small rulebook. For me, Elric! was perfect but the BGB was unwieldy.

[tedopon]

@frogspawner

Those are hilarious. Well done. One of my friends ran a 2e AD&D game for years that had a crit chart like that. Takes me back.

...to a dozen or so characters who were killed or maimed horribly due to random dice. Good times.

[frogspawner]

@frogspawner

Those are hilarious. Well done. One of my friends ran a 2e AD&D game for years that had a crit chart like that. Takes me back.

...to a dozen or so characters who were killed or maimed horribly due to random dice. Good times.

Cheers. Good times is what it's all about. I think the chart is a practical help too, though. Important to note it doesn't kill - just interprets & explains damage already taken. And RQ/BRP is famous for comedy maimings!

[threedeesix]

I decided to take a break from writing to throw together a test cover for Classic Fantasy 2nd ed. using some of my own artwork I have had sitting around. Turns out I really like it. Not sure if I'll use it yet. But, damn, I do like it.

Edit. Hmm, It didnt load. Oh well. Maybe too big. I'll look into it.

Rod

Edited March 16, 2013 by threedeesix

[threedeesix]

I decided to take a break from writing to throw together a test cover for Classic Fantasy 2nd ed. using some of my own artwork I have had sitting around. Turns out I really like it. Not sure if I'll use it yet. But, damn, I do like it.

Edit. Hmm, It didnt load. Oh well. Maybe too big. I'll look into it.

Rod

Ok, at least here is a link to it on Flickr

Classic Fantasy "Red Box" | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Hope this works.

Rod

[Chaot]

That's seriously retro!

[Baron]

Wow, I really like that!

[threedeesix]

Figured I would give an update of the progress I have made with Classic Fantasy 2nd ed. since I began this thread.

First of all, the system. Legend. However some things that were changed from RQ6 for Legend I am putting back. None of the broken stuff, and not that anything is wrong with how it is done in Legend. However some of the things from 1st ed Classic Fantasy were closer to RQ6 and I wish to remain true to the original in as many places as possible.

Completly self-contained! No more having half the spells in one book and half in another, same with skills, combat rules etc. You sit down at the table with Classic Fantasy, you have everything you need. Now, I may still have to split the book up into a rule book and a monster book. We'll see. I have to be realistic. But each book will be self contained.

A publisher is still up in the air. May self-publish and go the PDF and Print-on-Demand route, may seek an outside publisher. No hurry at this stage.

Alignment works like it did in CFI as in doing good, neutral, or evil deeds gives points that can shift your alignment, however the actual system is different and my own design. Feels the same however.

Hit points are per location with a separate hit point total optional. All monsters will be written up with hit locations.

Player characters use classes similar to Classic Fantasy 1st edition, however now using the Legend character generation system. It's way quicker and still gives similar results. Still all the previous class special abilities and stuff.

Skills have "check boxes" and improve by 1D4+1 points with a success, 1 point with a failure.

All classes have a set of class skills. These receive a +10% bonus to the check for improvement, and improve by 1D6+1 points with a success, still 1 point with a failure.

The magic system has changed from CFI in an attempt to feel truer to AD&D. However you still memorize a set number of spells which you then spend magic points to cast and they are NOT forgotten by casting them. The system still feels like the Magic system from BRP but does work a little differently. It isn’t based on any of the Legend magic systems but does use some of the terminology, such as "magnitude" for example. It is pretty much a High Fantasy magic system for Legend, giving Legend a new system.

However, with that said, I know a lot of people were using Classic Fantasy for its spells to increase the core spells from the BGB. I am writing up each spell with you in mind. Where ever possible, I am remaining compatible with the BGB. I say where possible because some of the spells I wrote up the first time I had to design a certain way because the BGB set a precedent, even if given the choice I would have done it differently. Now those limitations have been lifted and I can do them as I like. So while I will try to remain compatible, there will be issues where my Levitation spell will work differently than the Lift spell in the BGB for example. In these cases, you'll have to pick the one that is best for your campaign.

So far the entire magic system is done and beginning playtest. Decided I would go big this time. I am converting every 1st ed AD&D spell as found in the players handbook. I have just finished the 1st level spells (more than 60 of them alone) and I’m moving on to the 2nd level ones on Monday. It seemed that even with all of the ones I converted with CFI, there were still inquiries as to how this or that spell should be done. This should help.

Combat is pretty much that found in Legend, however without combat styles. You know, one skill for "Sword and Shield" as opposed to a Sword skill and a shield skill. I don't dislike that idea, however because I am using skill check boxes, I feel it’s more important separate them. For example, I don't want someone successfully blocking with their shield only to also improve their sword skill.

My miniatures combat system has been integrated with Legend combat. However, I have now written it up as boxed text separate from the core combat system but in all the appropriate locations. That way it feels less like you have to use them and they feel more optional. It's all there however for those that used it before.

Enough has been done that playtesting has started this weekend locally and with a small group of outside testers.

Progress

Chapter 1: Introduction. Done, just need to finish the "example of play". No real hurry at this stage when there is so much more interesting stuff to write.

Chapter 2: Character Generation. Done.

Chapter 3: Races. Done.

Chapter 4: Classes. Done.

Chapter 5: Skills. Done

Chapter 6: Equipment. Done

Chapter 7: Combat. Done

Chapter 8: Magic. System done. Over 60 1st level spells converted. 2nd level begins conversion on Monday. I may be able to do one entire level of spells every week and a half to two weeks. It’s slow, I understand. But they require lots of double checking and rewrites to keep them all balanced.

Chapters 9 through 17 as per post #1. Lots of the stuff found in these chapters has been done already for the 1st edition CF books, so just needs conversion. I'm going in order and Chapter 8 will keep me busy for a bit.

Anyway, that’s where I am now. Taking the weekend off to avoid getting burned out. Monday morning at 8:00 am I hit the 2nd level spells.

More to follow.

Rod

Edited March 16, 2013 by threedeesix

[frogspawner]

Ok, at least here is a link to it on Flickr

Classic Fantasy "Red Box" | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I'm sorry, but the mis-spelling of "mediaeval" totally ruins it for me.

[threedeesix]

I'm sorry, but the mis-spelling of "mediaeval" totally ruins it for me.

What?!, Oh you @$$. I almost grabbed it from Flickr and was already opening Photoshop. Man, seriously? Don't do that.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Ok, at least here is a link to it on Flickr

Classic Fantasy "Red Box" | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Looks good, but IMO it looks too much like Moldvay Basic which is not really what CF is about. I think something closer to AD&D would work better, like one of the many tributes of the PHB cover.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Vile

[threedeesix]

Love Hackmaster. I agree, that would be awesome. But seeing right now i'm also serving as the artist, I pretty much have to use what I have kicking around. Don't really have time to take away from writing. But, as far as my cover goes. Back when I began role playing, things like Basic and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons didn't really mean all that much and everything was pretty much interchangable. For example, how many people here ran Keep on the Borderlands with their AD&D games? I had a big pile of D&D stuff and only today is it really seperated.

Rod

[threedeesix]

Meet Amoretta Silvertongue, half-elf bard, and the first of our playtest character creations.

Greg Wood created her for the playtest of the 1st edition of Classic Fantasy and is kindly in the process of re-creation his whole folder of characters. Of which I think he did something like 20 or so all together.

Her CF1 version has been in the file section of my Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group since its beginnings. I have uploaded the CF2 version here with Gregs permission.

Click the link below to meet Amoretta.

Amoretta Silvertongue - Downloads - Basic Roleplaying Central

There has been a lot of confusion about just what CF2 is going to be. One gentleman even thought CF2 was going to be a D20 conversion. Really? D20 already has a classic fantasy system, it's called D&D. Anyway, let Amoretta serve as an example of how easily using stuff from CF2 will be no matter what your BRP system of choice.

Rod

[Baron]

I've never made a secret of the fact that I prefer the older versions of the d100 rules-systems. I was disappointed in Mongoose-era RQ, mostly because it went off in directions that didn't appeal to me. Although I was struck by a very gentlemanly post by Loz that I saw recently, which has helped me acknowledge the effort and intentions behind the work on his RQ6. So nowadays I like to state that my preferences are just that – personal preferences.

Now that I've got all that out of the way, I have a question. What I got from reading the post above is that CF2 uses Legend as the rules system. Then there are specific areas discussed:

It uses the Legend Chargen System.

Combat is Legend without Combat Styles.

The Magic System is custom.

So my question is, what does that leave? Where's the Legend material, vs what's unique to CF and not a part of Legend? How is the Legend material in CF any different from the BGB or my Chaosium-era RQ? For instance, aren't Combat Styles the major difference between Legend and original-era RQ anyway? That and Magic, for which CF has its own rules? So what's left?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if I will like the CF2 materials, given my preference in d100 systems and the fact that I already own CF1. I want to like it, which is why I'm posting.

Oh, that and the amazing cover.

Thanks!

[threedeesix]

Ok, let’s see if I can clear this up for ya. First, I needed to add a game system to make it complete. My favorite BRP version has always been RQ3 (Avalon Hill). So given a choice, I would have used that. But I can't for obvious reasons. So when looking for a game system that I could use, I had Gore, Open Quest, RQ SRD, and Legend. I looked at them all to see which I felt best captured the RQ3 feel and that was Legend. I could see I could pretty much use it as is, but would need to tack on the things that it no longer used. For the most part, skill check boxes. Dropping combat styles was simply to be able to check off "sword" and "shield" as opposed to "sword and shield". Like I said, I actually like the combat styles in a game without check boxes.

So my question is, what does that leave? Where's the Legend material, vs what's unique to CF and not a part of Legend?

For the most part, Legend serves as the game mechanics. Game mechanics that to me felt closer to the AH version of RQ than the BGB. Character generation for example uses principles you will recognize from Legend; cultural skills, basic skills, and advanced skills.

Take the Bard's skill selection for example.

Common Skills: Climbing +10%, Dodge +10%, Influence +10%, Insight +10%, Lore (Cultural) +10%, Singing +10%, Sleight +10%, Stealth +10%

Pick One +10%: Coordination, Dancing, Endurance, First Aid, Perception, Riding, Running, Swimming, Willpower, Unarmed

Pick Two +10%: Any Weapon

Advanced Skills: Divine Channelling (Bard), Language (Thieves’ Cant), Mechanisms, Status (Bard)

Pick One: Art, Commerce, Courtesy, Disguise, Language (other), Lore (Specific), Oratory, Play Instrument (Specific), Seduction, Streetwise, and Teaching

Pretty much Legend unchanged. As for what I added for Classic Fantasy. Pretty much the same stuff I added to the BRP version. Carrying on with the Bard, let’s look at a special ability.

Inspiration: You may, through the use of word or song, inspire your companions to great deeds, granting them a bonus to all skill rolls. This may be done before combat to boost courage and morale, after combat to bolster the efforts of the healers, or even in the midst of combat to inspire greater effort and confidence. You must perform for two consecutive combat rounds and then succeed at a skill roll, with the one stipulation that the skill in question must be able to be heard by your audience. This can therefore take the form of a tale of heroism, a tragic poem, a fiery speech, a haunting tune played on a harp, mandolin, or lute, or even shouts of encouragement during melee combat. The following skills may be used to inspire your allies; Influence, Orate, Sing, or Play Instrument. The effects of the inspiration are to grant a +10% bonus to all skill rolls for 15 minutes.

So, as you can see if you take a look at the version in the 1st edition, not really all that different.

How is the Legend material in CF any different from the BGB or my Chaosium-era RQ?

It really isn’t. That’s the point and why I chose it. I cannot use the BGB rules, nor the Chaosium-era stuff. But I can use the Legend rules.

A good example of where I changed a rule used in Legend is the Brawn test. In BRP, you have STR vs. STR on the Resistance Table. In Legend there is a Resistance skill called Brawn. This starts out equal to STR+SIZ and can be improved through play. This, as has already been discussed to death elsewhere can lead to a situation where a halfling that has built up his Brawn "skill" could wrestle an ogre to the ground that has not. I too have Brawn as a resistance test. But in Classic Fantasy 2, Brawn is equal to the average of STR+SIZ x5, and does not change unless one of the base characteristics changes. Therefore, it gives (to me) a more realistic result, such as that which would have been gained from using the Resistance Table.

For instance, aren't Combat Styles the major difference between Legend and original-era RQ anyway?

Pretty much. I figured RQ was around for a couple years before the inclusion of combat styles and did ok. Removing them again would more than likely not break anything.

That and Magic, for which CF has its own rules? So what's left?

Pretty much anything that I didn't change when I wrote CF1. If the rules work, then fine. They can stay. If changing them will feel closer to what I'm looking to achieve then I change them.

Basically I'm trying to figure out if I will like the CF2 materials, given my preference in d100 systems and the fact that I already own CF1. I want to like it, which is why I'm posting.

I guess. If you enjoy CF1 with the stuff I changed in that, then you should still enjoy CF2. If you do not like something about Legend, then you may not like it in CF2 either, unless I also didn't like it.

Oh, that and the amazing cover.

Thanks, I like it more and more every day.

Anyway, you ask some hard to define questions without giving out too much information prematurely. I hope I was able to clear up some stuff for yah.

Rod

Edited March 16, 2013 by threedeesix

[Baron]

Yeah, actually you did help clear some of it up. I think I fall under the 'cautiously optimistic that I'll personally find it to my taste' category. For which I'm glad.

Thanks for taking time to respond, I know what it's like to have a huge amount of writing to do. (Like right now...)

[soltakss]

The beauty of Legend is that it is all OGC under the OGL, which means that you can add things, remove things or change things however you like. It also means that we can write supplements without being constrained by whatever mistakes Legend has made.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Back when I began role playing, things like Basic and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons didn't really mean all that much and everything was pretty much interchangable.

Good point. I always preferred AD&D modules for my B/X games.