New BRP BGB?

[nclarke]

It might be in Chaosium's interest to put all the monographs up on DTRPg with a POD option. That way they would lose the DTRPG slice of revenue but gain the revenue from people who wont buy a pdf but will buy a POD copy.

[Hexelis]

My issues with 7e (based off reading the quick-start) not crazy about the bonus dice, which can be optional, but I really don't like the percentile stats. I see no reason for this change and I cant get over it. With that said, I'd buy a print version of 7e (dying to actually) if it would ever come out. And who doesn't love Brits?

[cjbowser]

It might be in Chaosium's interest to put all the monographs up on DTRPg with a POD option. That way they would lose the DTRPG slice of revenue but gain the revenue from people who wont buy a pdf but will buy a POD copy.

 

A move to onebookshelf could also provide an opportunity to set up POD/PDF bundles. That would be nice.

[Simlasa]

I didn't know the 7e writers were British... which wouldn't have bothered me at all... but I did take exception to some stuff I'd read from them regarding the criticisms... along the lines of 'If it isn't broke why were we hired to fix it?'

 

If New Chaosium were to give it a once over... move most of the changes to 'optional'... put the percentage stats back in the bottle... then release/print it... I'd happily buy a copy.

[nclarke]

Looks like you aren't going to be splashing out then SImlasa as the changes are already in place with a final hunt for typos before going to print in a week or so.

[Simlasa]

Nope, guess not... I was just remarking on something Mankcam mentioned.

It's fine because, really, I've got all the CoC product I could ever conceivably use (and just bought more through the current sale).

It's not the first time a game has moved on and left me playing an older version.

If Chaosium adopts 7e as core... well, it won't be the first time a game company has moved on and left me playing older content either.

Meanwhile I'm loving the read through of the new Luther Arkwright game for RQ6.

[RosenMcStern]

My two cents, from the fan/user pont of view.

As I recently posted on the Chaosium RQ google group, a new edition of a beloved game is really needed, and not just "a marketing trick", when there are bits of the rules that almost everyone, or at least a majority of fans of the game, do not run as written but houserule. Dodge in RQ3 or armour penalty to attack rolls in MRQ1 might be an example.

 

Is there anything in the BGB that the majority of people here feel the need to change/complement/houserule? If the answer is yes, then a new BGB could be useful.

 

If the answer is no and the idea of a new core manual is just to "put in all those new rules in CoC7 that sound cool because they are new"... well, my opinion about fixing what is not broken is well known.

[Nakana]

Well here's a thought, instead of redoing what's already been done... what if Chaosium made a companion to the BGB?

 

Throughout the BGB there are several allusions to an expansion of BRP; indicating a second/additional book featuring more powers, spells, creatures, optional rules, etc. 

 

It wouldn't need to have the system in it so there's more room for settings as well. 

[auyl]

My two cents, from the fan/user pont of view.

As I recently posted on the Chaosium RQ google group, a new edition of a beloved game is really needed, and not just "a marketing trick", when there are bits of the rules that almost everyone, or at least a majority of fans of the game, do not run as written but houserule. Dodge in RQ3 or armour penalty to attack rolls in MRQ1 might be an example.

 

Is there anything in the BGB that the majority of people here feel the need to change/complement/houserule? If the answer is yes, then a new BGB could be useful.

 

If the answer is no and the idea of a new core manual is just to "put in all those new rules in CoC7 that sound cool because they are new"... well, my opinion about fixing what is not broken is well known.

 

I started playing the d100 system with CoC6E and BRP but liked the RQ6 and Legend rules more to my liking. If they adapted similar rules for BRP I'd be all over that. However, I know people like the rules as is, which I'm not saying are bad, there's lots of good stuff in the BGB that I'd like to see in RQ6 and Legend but obviously for licensing reasons it won't happen.

[auyl]

Well here's a thought, instead of redoing what's already been done... what if Chaosium made a companion to the BGB?

 

Throughout the BGB there are several allusions to an expansion of BRP; indicating a second/additional book featuring more powers, spells, creatures, optional rules, etc. 

 

It wouldn't need to have the system in it so there's more room for settings as well. 

 

A companion would be good. If it offered alternate rules and like the core book said, more powers, spells etc. then I would put money down for that.

[Mankcam]

I like the idea of not fixing something if it ain't broke. I don't think the BGB is broke; it's just it is a collection of rules for use as a toolkit, as opposed to being a hard and fast set of generic rules like GURPS or Savage Worlds.

MagicWorld fits well as one conceivable build option of these rules.

Call of Cthulhu 6E (and earlier) fits well as another build.

It's just a bit confusing now that Call of Cthulhu 7E does not.

Yes it is BRP, but it's certainly not a build consistent with the BGB, so yes there is a looming question mark over what is going to constitute as core BRP now.

Nakana really has a good idea. I really do like the idea of a BRP Companion, expanding the BRP toolkit with heaps more optional rules, some of which are consistent with Call of Cthulhu 7E. This way everyone is happy I think. Obviously it will need more than just toolkit rules to offer something different for those who have CoC 7E, but I see an option like this as a great mediator between the current fan base and new adherents who get into BRP from CoC7E.

These days I am probably more partial to RQ6 and OQ, but I would certainly support a BRP Companion which brings CoC 7E into the fold as an example of optional rules. Just as long as there were other rules as well, such as some new SuperPowers; the Stunts from Blood Tide; Pulp cinematic rules; some example settings, possibly even rehashing the old FutureWorld and MagicWorld content (renamed FantasyWorld like Nakana suggested); etc etc.

And make it hardcover with a similar yellow cover to sit nicely alongside my hardcover BRP BGB, effectively making it a BRP Volume 2

I think I would definitely support a product like that

[SDLeary]

Well here's a thought, instead of redoing what's already been done... what if Chaosium made a companion to the BGB?

 

Throughout the BGB there are several allusions to an expansion of BRP; indicating a second/additional book featuring more powers, spells, creatures, optional rules, etc. 

 

It wouldn't need to have the system in it so there's more room for settings as well. 

 

Actually, I might go the other way... a smaller book. Something that provided a sold general foundation, one type of magic/power, some basic tech, etc.

 

I would then put all the fiddly bits, such as hit locations, passions, personality traits, other magic system, a build power system (superpowers?), etc. This would be the BRP Companion. 

 

The biggest trick here would be to determine what went where. But it would rekindle the tradition of a base game, then a companion volume (or volumes). It appears that Magic World is using this model, and I think it should be brought back out to the rest of the line.

 

SDLeary

[auyl]

Actually, I might go the other way... a smaller book. Something that provided a sold general foundation, one type of magic/power, some basic tech, etc.

I would then put all the fiddly bits, such as hit locations, passions, personality traits, other magic system, a build power system (superpowers?), etc. This would be the BRP Companion.

The biggest trick here would be to determine what went where. But it would rekindle the tradition of a base game, then a companion volume (or volumes). It appears that Magic World is using this model, and I think it should be brought back out to the rest of the line.

SDLeary

I'd prefer a book about the size of the BGB. An all inclusive volume that allows for greater sandbox. If not that then separate volumes for different base genres.

[RosenMcStern]

I like the idea of not fixing something if it ain't broke. I don't think the BGB is broke; it's just it is a collection of rules for use as a toolkit, as opposed to being a hard and fast set of generic rules like GURPS or Savage Worlds.

 

I don't see how BRP is less of a "set of hard and fast generic rules" than its competitors. GURPS is as full of options as BRP is. SW definitely has a smaller core, but it is lacking in many other ways. It pays a heavy tribute to its sleek format: it does not even have a small paragraph about "when to roll and when not", something I do not consider acceptable in a product published in 2011.

The trick here is that where the GURPS and SW ecosystems are made of an evolving core book upon which the settings are built, BRP is a core book made from the "genre supplements" that Chaosium produced over the years: RuneQuest, CoC, Stormbringer, World of Wonders, etc... - all solid, appreciated games on their own. Supplements leveraging the core book started to appear in 2009 or so (a bit earlier if you count the monographs).

 

Apart from this, it is as solid as the competition. And most rules in the BGB were playtested as hell even before the BGB playtest tbegan

[cjbowser]

I think the BGB could do with some clean up and editing to make it painfully aware to newbies who are looking at the book for the first time that this is a tool kit with sometimes contradictory offerings.

Then it needs kick ass setting books. Those are what will sell the line. Right now, in the shelves, we have very few options from the publisher of the BGB. We have more (and often better) options from Alephtar. There needs to be a sci-fi book next to Magic World. A superhero one. A post apocalyptic book. And so on and so forth. Call of Cthulhu was completely stand alone, so no player of that game has a need to look at the BGB.

And monographs don't count. They are of wildly varying quality that has rightly earned them the sub title, "caveat emptor." And, you could only get them from Chaosium for the longest time. So, in several ways, they did nothing to sell the BGB.

Maybe, if the new bosses can save the ship, BRP can eventually return to a place of prominence.

[Sunwolfe]

When news of the guard-change at Chaosium came, I was far more concerned about what might happen to BGB-BRP than CoC should the company be able to slog-on, reorganize and fix its sights on needed revenue. I have no doubt that CoC is going to be their flagship as it has been for years. It has a wider following than BRP, is making more money, and if they are looking to firmly re-bolt the company to a strong foundation, IMHO, that's the way to go, but I would hate to see BRP fall to the wayside. With Ben's new title, this fear has been allayed.

 

That being said, I'd like to see the BGB and BRP given greater attention and a more secure place in the New Chaosium. At present, I don't feel BRP has a developed a sense of itself. If the New Chaosium conceptualized a more unified vision for the game along with a sound marketing strategy, might not BRP evolve into a line nearly as important and successful as CoC?

 

As cjbowser suggests, an emphasis on settings might be a route to take. I also agree that Rosen and Alephtar have done a smashing job of it. Chaosium could do far, far worse (ops; been there, done that) than follow Alephtar's example and produce such solid and fun offerings.

 

As to a new BGB edition...? I'd hate to see it happen for the wrong reasons. Rosen has a point, unless there is something that the BGB needs beyond an errata pass, leave it alone. When the time comes, I'd rather see Chaosium pour energy into building around the BGB, strategically strengthening the line and adding it as a bulwark of the New Chaosium.

 

On another point, it seems to me that while RQ6 (I am a big fan of this BRP expression and continue to drool over its awesomeness) is very cool, I would not want BRP pulled around to resemble it. One of the wonderful things about BRP is that these present expressions--RQ6, Legends, MagicWorld, CoC, etc.--inspired by it or sprang from it and not necessarily vice-versa, allowing those who want crunch or squish, firearms or magic, strike ranks or DEX ranks, hit-point locations or general hit-points, etc., in their games to have it.

 

I suppose even if things eventually do go south, I will always have all the Chaosium goodness I've picked up since the late 70's, as well as this forum and it's creative talents, from which to pick and play BRP the way I like it.

 

Cheers,

 

[smiorgan]

I've just checked on Chaosium's website. The BGB seems to be out of stock. Is it recent or it's been for a long time?

[cjbowser]

I've just checked on Chaosium's website. The BGB seems to be out of stock. Is it recent or it's been for a long time?

It was in stock when the big sale started.

[SDLeary]

I'd prefer a book about the size of the BGB. An all inclusive volume that allows for greater sandbox. If not that then separate volumes for different base genres.

That would be one of the advantages to the Core/Companion models. 

 

You have the smaller Core, with a solid BRP base to it. I see this as a smaller book somewhere around 64 pages (The original "core book" in the Worlds of Wonder box set was 12 pages), large enough to provide a good base, but small enough to be inexpensive by todays standards and include one or two small adventures (highlighting different genres). 

 

The Companion would be longer, and would have additional Magic/Power options, Passions, Personality Traits, expanded equipment and weapons tables, Player and GM advice, and perhaps one or two more adventures and a list of seed threads.

 

Then we could also have Genre books in the same physical format; Superworld, Futureworld, Fantasy World or some such. These would of course add all the special rules for those genres, but would still require the Core book.

 

In fact I might even suggest taking a page from Evil Hat, and producing these books in Digest format; this of course would force them to be longer, but would also allow them to translate into the various e-pub formats a bit better. It would probably also reduce the printing costs. (Personally I prefer full layout, multi-column books, but can see the appeal of this format and the possible cost reductions associated with it.)

 

Produced in Digest, either in paperback or hardback, they could be soled individually, or perhaps in special editions in a sleeve. Core, Super World, Future World, Fantasy World... sounds like a familiar product.

 

The Companion then adds fiddly bits that not all might want...

 

Perhaps Malleus Monstrorum gets produced in this format as well and becomes BRPs monster resource.

 

SDLeary

[auyl]

In fact I might even suggest taking a page from Evil Hat, and producing these books in Digest format; this of course would force them to be longer, but would also allow them to translate into the various e-pub formats a bit better. It would probably also reduce the printing costs. (Personally I prefer full layout, multi-column books, but can see the appeal of this format and the possible cost reductions associated with it.)

 

Produced in Digest, either in paperback or hardback, they could be soled individually, or perhaps in special editions in a sleeve. Core, Super World, Future World, Fantasy World... sounds like a familiar product.

 

...

 

Perhaps Malleus Monstrorum gets produced in this format as well and becomes BRPs monster resource.

 

SDLeary

 

With my gaming company I used to do projects in 8.5x11 but didn't really care for it. I preferred the Digest format so if BGB's various companions were Digest that would suit me just find.

 

Malleus Monstrorum is more for CoC than for BRP in general. There are lots of unique monsters you could bring into a BGB supplement than a CoC one. So yes, Malleus Monstrorum could make a monster resource, I would rather see it stay as a CoC one and come up with something specifically for BGB.

[Simlasa]

I thought there was some mention a while back about bringing back 'All The Worlds Monsters' as a bestiary for either core BRP or Magic World? (rather than the D&D supplements the originals were).

 

I'd be another who would love to see a BRP Companion... a mixed bag of options, expansions and explorations. Shove the CoC 7 options in there as well... I won't complain.

[SDLeary]

I thought there was some mention a while back about bringing back 'All The Worlds Monsters' as a bestiary for either core BRP or Magic World? (rather than the D&D supplements the originals were).

I'd be another who would love to see a BRP Companion... a mixed bag of options, expansions and explorations. Shove the CoC 7 options in there as well... I won't complain.

AFAIK that is still happening. When that project first leaked though, it was presented as Malleus Monstrorum II. Unless there were two monster tomes being written concurrently!

Either way, to me Malleus Monstrorum sounds better; All the Worlds Monsters sounding more like a supplement for that other game!

SDLeary

[Mankcam]

Totally agree!

'All The World's Monsters', as a title, conjures up impressions of a tatty old school cottage house publication, like a typed newsletter; either that or it sounds like an early 80s supplement for D&D, or both. However perhaps thats just my memories of the original product.

They may like the nostalgia of called it by this name as a working title, but it really needs something a bit better for modern publication I feel.

It could only work if presented as a Victorian Era resource, kinda like a Darwinian catalogue, complete with old British annotations etc, then it will have some flavour.

Having the name for a generic fantasy critter book doesn't work for me.

[Simlasa]

I don't much care what it's called... though the AtWM title doesn't put me off... that's just how I saw it named in a list of planned books. A well-done bestiary for BRP/MW might make a nice visual calling card for the system(s).

[Nakana]

Modern day title for beastiary: Monsterpedia

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