New BRP BGB?

[Mankcam]

A possibility of a new BRP BGB?

 

Well, not really. 

Pure speculation.

 

But after having a skim through the pdf of 'Cthulhu Through The Ages' its easy to see that alot of work has been done to bring various genres in line with the new Call of Cthulhu 7E rules, and its an easy stretch of the imagination to see that these could also be used in an upcoming generic ruleset for BRP that is more consistent with the BRP mechanics as presented in Call of Cthulhu 7E.

 

Perhaps something like this on the horizon in the near future?

[soltakss]

Hmmm, I would like to see CoC brought into line with BRP, not vice versa, although I have not read any of the newer versions of CoC (past V1 or 2).

 

CoC always struck me as a fun, simple game, with a very basic, cut-down form of BRP. The strengths of CoC are not in the system, but in the flavour, atmosphere and setting.

[K Peterson]

God, I hope not. That has a feeling like erasure of BRP's mechanical past for the sole sake of an "upgrade" (to an edition of CoC that, in my opinion, is fairly lackluster, wonky, and unnecessary). Seems like it goes against the whole purpose of the BGB, which chronicles all the options for the BRP system that have come out over the past 30+ years. I guess I could see an added appendix in a revised BGB that introduced CoC7e rules, but not a wholesale rewrite.

 

Hypothetically then, would that rolling change continue to Chaosium's other 'brands'? Would we see Magic World follow suit with an upgraded 7e rules set - also severing its ties to its Elric!/Stormbringer/RQ3 roots?

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I'd much rather see an upgrade to RQ2/3 mechanics for the whole Chaosium line. 

[auyl]

I'd prefer BGB to stay as is. Still not sure how I feel about CoC 7e. Will probably have to play it more to get a feel for it.

[AJ The Ronin]

They don't have to make the CoC 7e base but they can add some of the stuff in it. Chase Rules, new Luck rule, level of success, versus tests and extra dice may be incorporated as alternate rules.

[10baseT]

I'd much rather see an upgrade to RQ2/3 mechanics for the whole Chaosium line. 

Ditto and amen (I would pay for this)

[Simlasa]

Yeah, I REALLY don't want the supposed 'fixes' of CoC 7 backdrafting into core BRP.

Adding stuff in as optional at some point?  Meh... none of the changes to CoC struck me as 'ooh shiny!' but as long as they're clearly labeled 'optional' it wouldn't bug me.

Moreover I didn't like the subtle shift in language I picked up on while reading CoC 7 that, IMO, was pushing a more 'narrative'/'cinematic' direction... I'd hate to see BRP chase after the 'cool kids' like Fate and Savage Worlds instead of supporting the style of play it already excels at.

[auyl]

Yeah, I REALLY don't want the supposed 'fixes' of CoC 7 backdrafting into core BRP.

Adding stuff in as optional at some point?  Meh... none of the changes to CoC struck me as 'ooh shiny!' but as long as they're clearly labeled 'optional' it wouldn't bug me.

Moreover I didn't like the subtle shift in language I picked up on while reading CoC 7 that, IMO, was pushing a more 'narrative'/'cinematic' direction... I'd hate to see BRP chase after the 'cool kids' like Fate and Savage Worlds instead of supporting the style of play it already excels at.

 

I've personally always enjoyed the high role-playing aspect of any d100 system, but I wouldn't mind seeing some alternate rules to the BGB to make it more cinematic if one wanted to.

[el_octogono]

I like some of the combat rules from CoC7. I haven't played but they seem to speed up things in an elegant way. I would really like an official correction or streamlining of the SIZ table. A new take on magic wouldn't hurt too.

[Mankcam]

I'm certainly not overly fond of CoC 7E myself. The production standard looks very good, and I do like some of the optional low-cinematic rules such as Luck and Pushing Your Rolls.

The char gen allocation of points based on different characteristics for different professions is okay, but no improvement over usual char gen.

The Characteristics expressed as a % is ok for game mechanic consistency,but a little out of synch with all the other editions.

The extra dice for rolling modifiers is just wrong for BRP, plain and simple.

So I agree that many of the changes may not be for the better. But it does make sense for any new products to be consistent, so I am assuming that most new products may fall in line with 7E.

Not sure if that will be a good thing though

[Hexelis]

I kind of wish they would have done CoC 7 like WotC did D&D 5. Run all these changes by the players before they went for it. And certainly before changing everything over, wait for it to come out and get players feedback.

[Mankcam]

Yes that would have been good, considering we are the ones who will be supporting it (or not).

I would not want designers overly watching forum posts, but it is unwise to ignore consistent themes that pop up. Public opinion is a big thing.

WotC were smart with 5E, considering how their supporters jumped ship with 4E

I know the CoC 7E pdf is out (I have it from the Kickstarter), but no sight of the printed books as yet.

There is still time to alter content to at least include optional rules that are more consistent with previous volumes

I doubt that will happen at this late stage however

[auyl]

I kind of wish they would have done CoC 7 like WotC did D&D 5. Run all these changes by the players before they went for it. And certainly before changing everything over, wait for it to come out and get players feedback.

Unfortunately they only did what seemed like a limited playtest where the only ones playtesting where ones who were going to tell them how great it was no matter what.

On the yog-sothoth forums there was a lot of disagreement with the new rules. A majority of people who saw the rules (I take it illegally) but weren't invited to playtest didn't like them.

If they did an open playtest and did surveys like WotC did they would haveca system everyone liked. In fact WotC was putting out questions before the first plsytest even went out.

[nclarke]

A lot of folks didn't like the proposed 7e rules because of rumour, fear and doubt. There was a lot of misinformation repeated as fact and that led to quite a few people proclaiming their dislike without ever having seen the revisions.

 

I did two rounds of playtesting in the UK and I got the impression that not a few US people shouted their hate for 7e purely because it was a couple of UK-based authors despite the status of those authors in the Cthulhu gaming community. The playtesting did include a large number of groups although not, it appears, some of the most vociferous 'haters' who continue to trumpet their dislike for the revised edition.

[Mankcam]

Well I'm sitting on the fence over it, but it's not because of rumour, fear, misinformation, or the ethnicity of the authors.

I have the PDFs and I was a little surprised by some of the changes, although it is still recognisably the same system.

Rolling the extra D10 instead of having a +\- modifier is my biggest gripe as it just feels out of keeping with the system.

I actually like the simplicity of this mechanic, however it just does not feel like it is part of a BRP based game to me. I would of preferred broad numerical modifiers, like OpenQuest, but that's just me.

My other issue is the Characteristics are now inconsistent with previous editions to a degree, although it's an easy work around.

I also thought it was a little odd changing how successes are measured. I am used to 'Success/ Special/Critical', with BRP's Easy chance or Difficult chance. I just did not see the point renaming these.

Everything else looks good to me however, the artwork and look to the books make them a pleasure to read, and I do like the low-pulp flavour.

My doubts are whether even these small changes are great for a system which has been viewed as one of the most consistent RPGs over the past 30yrs. It's reassuring to know that a 2E scenario requires no alteration for a 6E game, for instance.

However having said that, the amount of conversion necessary to play a 2E scenario with 7E rules would be quite minimal when compared to other RPGs ( this would be a cumbersome task with D&D for instance).

It still looks very much like Call of Cthulhu, and I suspect that many players may not care either way; just as long as they are rolling percentile dice then it will feel like BRP to them. I suspect it is GMs who have heavily invested in the current system who will hold the most doubts.

I guess the point I was making is that I am wondering if all BRP lines will start to have similar mechanics for the sake of consistency. This certainly makes a lot of sense when attracting new players to the system, as it will allow GMs and players to have one core set of rules, with additional rules according to the setting or genre. It does not make sense for Chaosium to publish two versions of the BRP rules.

The only issue is whether or not these changes will alienate the current fan base that has historically supported the BRP system.

But you certainly can't fault the layout and overall appearance of this edition, as it just looks beautiful and grand.

It will be nice in the bookshelf once it arrives, and will hold its own next to other hardcover rpg core books on the market.

But only time will tell if it plays any better at the table, and if it becomes the template for a new edition of the BGB.

[Nakana]

I haven't read the new CoC, but I wouldn't want it to become the new *core* BRP. 

 

This is what I'd like if I had my say on the matter. (Keep in mind this is all just wishful thinking on my part.)

 

Product Lines:

• BRP BGB (2nd edition?) *I know it's really like 4th edition BRP but I mean a 2nd edition of the "BGB" - updated to include new optional rules and a new fresh look and design. 
• Call of Cthulhu 
• Magic World
• Worlds of Wonder 2nd edition. (Box Set)
  • BRP core system quickstart. 
  • Future World (updated setting book)
  • Fantasy World (because "Magic World" is now something else.) (Based off the original and not Elric)
  • Super World (updated)
  • Horror World (generic Call of Cthulhu)

 To keep it affordable I'd be ok if all the the books in Worlds of Wonder were paperback booklets. If each book averaged 20 pages, you're looking at 100 pages for the entire product.  Sell the entire Box set as the BRP starter box for $20.

 

Focus on those core product lines, and monographs and additional material to compliment them. 

[nclarke]

Problem is that boxes are very costly which is why you see very few boxed sets except at very high price points or where quantity is high enough. Most games run under 1000 copies for a print run and boxes just aren't cheap enough at that level.

[Nakana]

Doesn't have to be a box then. You could simply sell them as a bundle or even seperately. I imagine PDF's are the big sellers these days anyways. 

[cjbowser]

Unfortunately they only did what seemed like a limited playtest where the only ones playtesting where ones who were going to tell them how great it was no matter what.

 

 

That's not entirely true. If you check the copyright page of the Keeper's book, many of the people in the first paragraph provided very critical feedback of the book. In some cases, they provided 12 page written documents outlining some potential issues.

[cjbowser]

 

 

Focus on those core product lines, and monographs and additional material to compliment them. 

 

Monographs are no longer part of Chaosium's business strategy. That's why they're 50% off and in the category of things that won't be reprinted.

[K Peterson]

So I agree that many of the changes may not be for the better. But it does make sense for any new products to be consistent, so I am assuming that most new products may fall in line with 7E.

 

 

I think it's a bridge that Chaosium will definitely have to cross at some point. CoC7e introduces a game system divergence, which brings up the question of whether there's a need to homogenize the game lines. Or, do you leave CoC7e as its own entity and continue developing material for the BGB or Magic World as their rules currently stand?

[Baragei]

Monographs are no longer part of Chaosium's business strategy. That's why they're 50% off and in the category of things that won't be reprinted.

But they'll still be available as pdfs, yes? Because some of them are really good.  

 

As far as CoC7 goes, it seems like three steps forward, one step back and a jump to the left. And twirl.

[cjbowser]

But they'll still be available as pdfs, yes? Because some of them are really good.  

 

As far as CoC7 goes, it seems like three steps forward, one step back and a jump to the left. And twirl.

 

I'd imagine PDF monographs will continue to be sold, at least of existing titles, because there's little cost associated with selling them.

[threedeesix]

Monographs are no longer part of Chaosium's business strategy. That's why they're 50% off and in the category of things that won't be reprinted.

 

Actually in a recent e-mail with Dustin of Chaosium I was told...

 

"We haven’t made any final decisions on the monograph line. We just needed to make some room in the warehouse. :)"

 

So, while that may be the case for many of them, it isn't final.

 

Rod