BRP Poll at Chaosium.com

[NickMiddleton]

I'd rather see a fantasy world that got a reasonable distance away from D&D, one with its own character. Glorantha was a little too strange and convoluted, but maybe something with its own distinct flavor

The mass market is in broad high fantasy still though, and BRP did do that. Glorantha might well have always had more depth than Greyhawk (and these days spends interminable reams of paper lovingly caressing every minutia of how different it is, *yawn*), but originally it's popularity was that it was a fun and different place to kill things and take their stuf, with a system that actually made trying to kill things feel as risky and heroic as it ought...

I think what BRP needs is a new Glorantha, as Glorantha was in 1978 - somewhere with distinctive flavour, but not opaque and unapproachable. Somewhere that someone who has just read Lord of the Rings, or Conan, or Until they are Hanged could get to grips with quickly, but which DOESN'T feel like Greyhawk / Forgotten Realms-lite...

... or maybe a neglected sub-genre, like:

[*]Sword and sorcery (admittedly already handled by Conan)

And BRP used to do well with Elric! / Stormbringer. But to be fair, S&S is at one end of a sliding scale with Forgotten Realms style High Fantasy at the other and AD&D used to adapt reasonably well between them, and BRP still does. I'd favour something more towards the S&S end of the scale, but I think being too dogmatic about it would restrict it's appeal.

[*]Non-european fantasy (e.g. Chinese, Japanese, Arabian Nights, Ancient Greek, Indian, African, Central/South American)

I think these are lovely ideas for supplementary settings, and certainly blending more influence from these non-European sources can add flavour - but as exotic settings from Glorantha onwards have discovered, stray too far from the European paradigm and sales (which are to a largely European descended demographic after all...) aren't so good.

[*]Modern or historical fantasy (e.g. Mythago Wood, Neverwhere, the Lord Darcy series, nearly everything by Tim Powers)

This to me is the obvious direction to take a "revival" of Nephilim, or rather, a revival of Chaosium's interest in modern occult / fantasy gaming (as opposed to Horror)... The challenge is in building a setting that isn't blatantly obviously "Neil Gaiman" the RPG without Gaiman's permission, or Buffy / Angel -lite. I think one could do something building on what was in Nephilim, but it would require such a radical re-imagining that it would be a different game in most respects.

[*]Pre-Tolkien fantasy literature (e.g. Oz, Gormengast, the worlds of Lord Dunsany)

[RosenMcStern]

I wish there more truly European fantasy settings.

Welcome to the Royal Palace of Frederick II

Okay, okay, I am done advertising

Seriously, a low-magic fantasy and a high-magic fantasy would be good. I have already made a proposal for a low-magic fantasy, but what about the high-magic? Forgotten Realms is already done, Glorantha is out of scope (but look at my other post) so what?

[Greymagius]

If we are tossing out idea for Fantasy worlds with a bit different feel, might I suggest the 'Black Company" books? They had a gritty feel that BRP simulates well, but also had elements of high fantasy. The Mercenary Company theme allows for easy inclusion of adventurer types.

Just a thought,

Grey

[Jason D]

If we are tossing out idea for Fantasy worlds with a bit different feel, might I suggest the 'Black Company" books? They had a gritty feel that BRP simulates well, but also had elements of high fantasy. The Mercenary Company theme allows for easy inclusion of adventurer types.

Just a thought,

Grey

Green Ronin did a pretty solid d20 version of Black Company.

It should be easy to adapt to BRP, but I'm guessing that Chaosium is out of the licensed setting business other than Call of Cthulhu.

[Trifletraxor]

I'm guessing that Chaosium is out of the licensed setting business other than Call of Cthulhu.

Is Call of Cthulhu a licensed setting? I had the impression H.P. Lovecraft was in the public domain.

From wikipedia:

All works published before 1923 are public domain in the U.S. However, there is some disagreement over who exactly owns or owned the copyrights and whether the copyrights for the majority of Lovecraft's works published post-1923 — including such prominent pieces as "The Call of Cthulhu" and "At the Mountains of Madness" — have expired as of April 2008.[/QUOTE]

Mongoose is also publishing a Cthulhu-based RPG, "Cthulhu-Tech".

This was somewhat of a sidetrack though...

SGL.

[Jason D]

Is Call of Cthulhu a licensed setting? I had the impression H.P. Lovecraft was in the public domain.

It's vaguely on topic, so I don't see any problem with continuing to discuss it here. (If not, the thread police can come in and shut us down...)

Chaosium began by licensing the Cthulhu IP from Arkham House, which presented itself as owning the rights to the Lovecraft estate. Royalties were paid to AH, and early CoC editions had the blessing of Arkham House (and I think even their logo).

By any estimation, that's a licensed property.

Later, when it became apparent that HPL's works were public domain and that AH didn't actually own them and had no exclusive rights to them, the licensing arrangement ended.

Chaosium now publishes CoC based off the public domain of HPL's works, and has developed enough of the property on its own that it has in effect become a new IP. (Other authors' works have been utilized in CoC, but it's not really germane to the point.)

Anyone else using Cthulhu stuff is either based off the public domain Lovecraft material, or is licensing it from Chaosium.

So I guess it's technically a "once was licensed, now based on public domain, now being licensed as a semi-original IP" game.

The point was that after years of trouble with Moorcock (which I think parties are somewhat at fault in), the snafus with the Niven Ringworld/Known Space IP, and the underperformance of other licensed settings like Prince Valiant and ElfQuest, they're likely done with the "spend a bunch of money to utilize an existing IP" process.

But I'm just speculating, and for all I know, they may still be open to it.

[Dredj]

I'd rather see a fantasy world that got a reasonable distance away from D&D, one with its own character. Glorantha was a little too strange and convoluted, but maybe something with its own distinct flavor ... or maybe a neglected sub-genre, like:

[*]Non-european fantasy (e.g. Chinese, Japanese, Arabian Nights, Ancient Greek, Indian, African, Central/South American)

I just get tired of pseudo-medieval Europe with elves, dwarves, orcs, etc.

Maybe you would like to check this setting out:

Precis Intermedia :: Steampunk Musha (PDF)

I was considering porting this setting over to BRP.

[NickMiddleton]

Is Call of Cthulhu a licensed setting? I had the impression H.P. Lovecraft was in the public domain.

From wikipedia: ((SNIPPAGE))

If it's from wiki its probably wrong... Or at least, if it's from wiki and involves any significant amount of opinion, it's probably wrong. The HPL copyright situation is complex and I'd be wary of assuming stuff was public domain...

But even if Chaosium were to follow Marcus L Rowland's example and do a setting based entirely on intellectual property entirely in the public domain, would that be a good thing? From a commercial point of view IP is a valuable asset, and is worth defending. If it's not PD it costs to use someone else's IP (both in raw fees and time to publication for approvals etc) and if it IS PD, there is no easy way to defend your particular IP.

I remain firmly convinced that unless an RPG company is set up to deal with licensed IP (as Mongoose clearly are, and Green Ronin) it's really not worth tangling with, and given how many RPG publisher's have had grief from licensed IP (FASA, ICE, AEG, SJG, Mongoose, Chaosium off the top of my head) I'm sceptical that, especially for Chaosium these days, they are worth it. YMMV.

Cheers,

Nick

[Jason D]

I hadn't noticed earlier, but Dustin's recent blog entry discusses the poll:

Chaosium.com: News - Decisions Decisions

[Lord Twig]

It seems to me that some of the most successful games have been unique creations. Vampire/World of Darkness, Fading Suns, Ebberon, Champions, ShadowRun, etc.

[Jason D]

It seems to me that some of the most successful games have been unique creations.

Vampire/World of Darkness > Anne Rice novels

Fading Suns > Dune

Champions > Marvel/DC superheroes

ShadowRun > Cyberpunk with fantasy races

To its credit, though, at least Ebberon is a vaguely original take on D&D-style fantasy.

[Lord Twig]

Vampire/World of Darkness > Anne Rice novels

Fading Suns > Dune

Champions > Marvel/DC superheroes

ShadowRun > Cyberpunk with fantasy races

To its credit, though, at least Ebberon is a vaguely original take on D&D-style fantasy.

Absolutely right on all of those, but they did not license IP. They are systems that are inspired by popular sources, but are custom made with the needs of a Role-Playing Game in mind.

Marvel and DC both had RPGs I seem to recall, and I believe neither has done as well as Champions. So go ahead and take the inspiration, but don't worry about the specific setting.

Edit: Ah, I just got it. I'm slow sometimes. The problem was my use of the word "unique". Sorry, they are not unique. I guess the word "custom", as I used above, would have been a better way to say it.

[RosenMcStern]

Marvel and DC both had RPGs I seem to recall, and I believe neither has done as well as Champions.

A common mistake in the gaming industry (computer games, too). You have a license that guarantees you will sell something, and so you design crappy rules.

Still, Marvel SuperHeroes wasn't that bad (for a TSR product >:->)

[Jason D]

Edit: Ah, I just got it. I'm slow sometimes. The problem was my use of the word "unique". Sorry, they are not unique. I guess the word "custom", as I used above, would have been a better way to say it.

Yeah... that was what I was responding to.

I'm of the belief that there's not much new under the sun, but those were admittedly the first (or among the first) to bring those genres to the game arena.

I wonder if Champions really has done better than Marvel (the TSR edition). I know it's still in print, but I'd suspect that the reason it's more of a success is that there were no licensing costs, whereas I'm sure that Marvel took a good chunk of TSR's profits from MSH.

Oh well... off topic wanderings.

[Jason D]

A common mistake in the gaming industry (computer games, too). You have a license that guarantees you will sell something, and so you design crappy rules.

Another mistake is thinking that because a license sells well in one medium, it will translate to another and be equally successful.

[Al.]

Another mistake is thinking that because a license sells well in one medium, it will translate to another and be equally successful.

I'm in absolute agreement on the points made on IP so far. But for the sake of completeness there is also the shock success of licensed properties in other media to consider.

Star Wars Action Figures

Star Wars Lego computer game

(Actually all of the Star Wars licensing which started the whole shebang)

PlayBoy selling goods emblazones with its logo to young women WTF saw that one coming? :eek:

etc

Maybe its time to dust off the April Fool of the 'My Little Pony' rpg and look at Rupert the Bear or Bob the Builder or Barney the Purple Dinosaur BRP supplements

Al

[Jason D]

Maybe its time to dust off the April Fool of the 'My Little Pony' rpg and look at Rupert the Bear or Bob the Builder or Barney the Purple Dinosaur BRP supplements

This is really off-topic, but since it's about licensing and IPs...

I hope that WotC knows their market, and Hasbro theirs, but I was literally stupefied that they thought a My Little Pony RPG was cause for a joke.

I have a 16-month old daughter, and when she's a couple of years older, I fully intend on seeing if she's interested in playing some RPG-like games. I've got friends with kids and they thought that a MLP RPG would have been outstandingly cool.

How the world's largest RPG company can be owned by one of the world's largest toy manufacturers, and there be absolutely no cross-line development is beyond me.

If I were a WotC higher-up, I'd be looking at stuff like My Little Pony, Axis & Allies, HeroScape, Transformers, and GI Joe and wondering what games we could make out of those properties. Or I'd notice all of the IPs that Hasbro has the game rights to, such as The Simpsons or Disney, and see if something could be done with those.

But then, I've never figured out why WotC's never come up with a hybrid of D&D and Magic...

[RosenMcStern]

Gee. Axis & Allies is one of the most stupid games I ever played, and I still play the open source version on my PC. Marketing guys are hard to understand.

[Tywyll]

Vampire/World of Darkness > Anne Rice novels

Speaking along the horror lines, I'd personally not mind a supernatural/horror/urban fantasy style game involving playable vampires, werewolves etc. I think that NWoD has moved too far away from where most modern media have taken the vampire mythos. Anne Rice stuff was great, in her day, and I love characters with tragedy and pathos... but the more modern depiction of vampires in media are in things like Blade and Underworld, or TV shows like Moonlight and Blood Ties and Angel are essentially ACTION shows. NWoD has done everything it can to kill the 'vampires are cool' which was part of the great attraction of Masquerade.

I don't know how viable that market is, but I do know that WW lost a /huge/ amount of customers with the shift. I suppose the question would be creating something unique enough to stand on its own.

[threedeesix]

When my daughter, who is 22 now, was only 7 or so years old, I had her create a character for SJGs Toon role playing game. We played a few adventures and she loved it. I still have her character sheet all filled out in her hand writing with her little puppy sketch.

Later on, when she was in her early teens she picked up the Sailor Moon RPG.

Your right, it would be a great idea to capture that market at an early age. Unfortunately, it really would take the big boys like WOTC/Hasbro to be able to get the exposure to do it.

Rod

This is really off-topic, but since it's about licensing and IPs...

I hope that WotC knows their market, and Hasbro theirs, but I was literally stupefied that they thought a My Little Pony RPG was cause for a joke.

I have a 16-month old daughter, and when she's a couple of years older, I fully intend on seeing if she's interested in playing some RPG-like games. I've got friends with kids and they thought that a MLP RPG would have been outstandingly cool.

How the world's largest RPG company can be owned by one of the world's largest toy manufacturers, and there be absolutely no cross-line development is beyond me.

If I were a WotC higher-up, I'd be looking at stuff like My Little Pony, Axis & Allies, HeroScape, Transformers, and GI Joe and wondering what games we could make out of those properties. Or I'd notice all of the IPs that Hasbro has the game rights to, such as The Simpsons or Disney, and see if something could be done with those.

But then, I've never figured out why WotC's never come up with a hybrid of D&D and Magic...

[NickMiddleton]

Hmm, so currently (as of 457 votes), we have:

• Fantasy 99 / 21 %
  
• Historical 55 / 12 %
  
• Horror 64 / 14 %
  
• Post Apocalypse 80 / 17 %
  
• Pulp 51 / 11 %
  
• Science Fiction 103 / 22 %
  

457 total votes

SF has pulled back out in front (by a narrow margin), and SF / Fantasy continue to head the field by some margin. Although Post Apocalypse has surged back ahead of Horror again...

Interesting. I must confess I assumed that Fantasy would lead the field easily, with SF/PA second spot and Pulp / Horror and Historical brining up the rear...

Cheers,

Nick

[Shaira]

Interesting. I must confess I assumed that Fantasy would lead the field easily, with SF/PA second spot and Pulp / Horror and Historical brining up the rear...

Hmm... I would have expected the same. But then, I am always a little suspicious when polls run neck-and-neck for so long anyway... Given that it's not too difficult to multiple vote on the poll, I'd be wary of attributing *too* much to the results! :-D

Cheers,

Sarah

[tal]

Hmm... I would have expected the same. But then, I am always a little suspicious when polls run neck-and-neck for so long anyway... Given that it's not too difficult to multiple vote on the poll, I'd be wary of attributing *too* much to the results! :-D

Cheers,

Sarah

That's possible but also realize there is a bunch of us that are sick of seeing just fantasy and horror suppliments for BRP and the realise of the core brp book is a golden opportunity to expand into those other fields.

[Jason D]

Dustin's posted a second part to the discussion about genre here.

They really should publicize that blog a bit better...

[rust]

I am really looking forward to a Science Fiction supplement for BRP, my copy

of Ringworld is beginning to show its age ...