D100 Stun/Subdual System?

[Archivist]

Systems like HERO have a system have a mechanism for subdual damage, where characters can take a bunch of bashing damage before taking actual physical damage. Is there a D100 variant that has something like that?

[Mankcam]

I don't think there is anything in the BRP BGB, but the Fatigue Levels in RQ6 lend themselves pretty well to this kind of approach.

As a quick house rule for BRP, I previously used to say that stun damage could be recovered at the end of a scene at the rate of 1Hit Point per 2 Power Points expended. Perhaps first make a 'Rally' roll ( CONx5%).  This worked well for fist fights and small bludgeons and such, damage dice D6 and under. It could also work for impact of any damage you decree to be 'stun' rather than lethal. 

I remember that the recovery roll had to be made at the end of that scene, otherwise the stun damage became standard damage that would only be recovered in the usual manner such as First Aid and Natural Healing.

If you actually use the old Fatigue Points at all, you could always just make Stun Damage reducing Fatigue Points rather than Hit Points.  

Edited January 27, 2016 by Mankcam

[SDLeary]

IIRC, its generally been house rules, but in the games I've played you could always declare that you were trying not to injure them, using the pommel, flat of the blade, butt of spear, etc. The "damage" was then opposed by CON (don't remember the multiple but I think it was x1) on the Resistance table. The results of a successful roll would vary depending upon location hit; arms, weapon dropped, head, KO, etc. Armor did count.

SDLeary

[Chaot]

13 hours ago, SDLeary said:

The "damage" was then opposed by CON (don't remember the multiple but I think it was x1) on the Resistance table. The results of a successful roll would vary depending upon location hit; arms, weapon dropped, head, KO, etc. Armor did count.

Interesting.  I don't use hit locations but I'm tempted to try this out using weapon damage v hit points on the resistance table.

Things I've done in my game.  After a successful grapple the attacker can try to choke the opponent unconscious using the Drowning spot rule.  Each round attacker must succeed with grapple and opponent makes progressive Con checks to stay conscious.

Using Major Wounds there's always the possibility that someone might pass out during a fight if they lose half or more of their hit points.  I add a death countdown that is measured by negative hit points as well.  Depending on the game I usually set this at the character's Con or at half the character's Con.  Once hit points reach zero the countdown begins.  The character is unconscious and near death but can be stabilized with a Physik check.  

[NickMiddleton]

15 hours ago, Archivist said:

Systems like HERO have a system have a mechanism for subdual damage, where characters can take a bunch of bashing damage before taking actual physical damage. Is there a D100 variant that has something like that?

BGB BRP - Knockout Attack Spot Rule, page 226

Magic World Knockout Attack spot Rule, page 88

IIRC both are (minor) variations of the CoC 6 & earlier Knockout Attack Spot Rule.

My standard House rule in Call of Cthulhu and similarly gritty strains of BRP is that between humans with positive SAN hand to hand combat is assumed to be all knockout attacks unless the combatants are suffering a bout of insanity or has passed a POW x 5 roll (i.e. has willed themselves to deliberately take a life).

Cheers,

NIck

Edited January 28, 2016 by NickMiddleton

[Archivist]

Thanks. I plan to get BGB PRP

[Atgxtg]

There have been official variants of the Knockout rule since at least RQ3, where you'd do a called head shot and match the damage against the head's hit points on the resistance table. 

I believe, Superworld (the RQ2-based stand alone boxed set) used to use the character's energy pool as a way to adsorb damage points,in a hit point like fashion. 

 

And some people who run Supers games in BRP just treat all (or most) damage as subdual/temporary damage. That way superpowered characters are knocking each other out rather than snapping necks, or crushing rib-cages. 

 

 

[Aelwyn]

RQ6 has a number of nonlethal Special Effects: Bash (knockback), Blind Opponent, Compel Surrender, Damage Weapon, Disarm Opponent, Entangle, Grip, Pin Weapon, Stun Location, Take Weapon, Trip Opponent.

7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

And some people who run Supers games in BRP just treat all (or most) damage as subdual/temporary damage. That way superpowered characters are knocking each other out rather than snapping necks, or crushing rib-cages.

Yes, often the house rule is, you only do lethal damage if you deliberately call a lethal shot. Doing so would have severe consequences for either a hero or a villain.

[Questbird]

On 1/28/2016 at 9:56 PM, Chaot said:

Interesting.  I don't use hit locations but I'm tempted to try this out using weapon damage v hit points on the resistance table.

Things I've done in my game.  After a successful grapple the attacker can try to choke the opponent unconscious using the Drowning spot rule.  Each round attacker must succeed with grapple and opponent makes progressive Con checks to stay conscious.

Using Major Wounds there's always the possibility that someone might pass out during a fight if they lose half or more of their hit points.  I add a death countdown that is measured by negative hit points as well.  Depending on the game I usually set this at the character's Con or at half the character's Con.  Once hit points reach zero the countdown begins.  The character is unconscious and near death but can be stabilized with a Physik check.  

A hitpointless combat system like the one I'm trialling works this way. I am using (Maximum weapon damage minus armour) vs. Resilience* on the resistance table, to avoid multiple rolling. If you resist, you can keep fighting. If you don't, you are out for this fight. You don't need to worry about how injured you are until after the fight is resolved -- and you don't even care for NPCs. For a bar fight or 'stun' damage you could use the same system, but just rule that all KO'd participants wake up with a sore head (but otherwise none the worse for wear) a bit later.

*Resilience: avg of SIZ CON and POW for PCs, or just hit points for NPCs to make it easier to use published stat blocks.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Questbird
Changed CON to Resilience, and explained that.

[Chaot]

I like it.  Are there stages of being wounded or is it 'one and done'?

[Mugen]

As for myself, I'd like to use the following system next time I begin a BRP-based game :

-Hit Points are just Stun Points. Once you reach 0 hp, you're KO.

-A character that suffers more than (max HP) /2 in one blow receives a Major Wound. 

-Major Wounds reduce Maximum Hit Points by 1/4 (with no effect on Major Wound threshold). 

-A Major Wound that reduces HP to 0 can kill a character. 

[Questbird]

On 2/12/2016 at 9:51 PM, Chaot said:

I like it.  Are there stages of being wounded or is it 'one and done'?

It's 'one and done' for the fight, but afterwards you determine how wounded you are: Fine, Walking Wounded (basically, skills halved), Dying (can't do much at all) or Dead. Similar to fatigue levels. But after a stun combat I guess everyone would be Fine or at worst Walking Wounded. For healing, you can make a check each day to see if your condition improves or worsens. Physick and so forth can help, making it so you can't get worse at least.

[sladethesniper]

I'm going to be starting up a superhero genre game, so will need to house rule bludgeoning damage to properly simulate a comic book fight, instead of the insta-kills that could easily result in hand to hand combat.  I am thinking of using some multiple of CON, as an ability to add to hit points...maybe calling it Toughness and each point of it bought will increase the Hit Points, so toughness 4 will add 4x CON to Hit Points.  It will make combat longer, and somewhat more cinematic.

-STS

[Atgxtg]

Not so much, depending on the STR of the characters. The problem, is that someone like the Hulk can have a 8D6 damage bonus for their punch. That can drop a 50 hp elephant pretty quickly. 

[Mankcam]

On 2/12/2016 at 2:51 PM, Questbird said:

A hitpointless combat system like the one I'm trialling works this way. I am using (Maximum weapon damage minus armour) vs. Resilience* on the resistance table, to avoid multiple rolling. If you resist, you can keep fighting. If you don't, you are out for this fight. You don't need to worry about how injured you are until after the fight is resolved -- and you don't even care for NPCs. For a bar fight or 'stun' damage you could use the same system, but just rule that all KO'd participants wake up with a sore head (but otherwise none the worse for wear) a bit later.

*Resilience: avg of SIZ CON and POW for PCs, or just hit points for NPCs to make it easier to use published stat blocks.

So this is very similar to the concept of 'Defence' from BRP Amazing Adventures, which works pretty well for Mooks in a cinematic game. 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Mankcam

[Mankcam]

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

The problem, is that someone like the Hulk can have a 8D6 damage bonus for their punch. That can drop a 50 hp elephant pretty quickly. 

Yes, but for The Hulk that's pretty much correct. He swats military tanks like they are mosiquitos, so an elephant should be scared heh heh

I very much agree that this can be a problem depending upon what level the campaign is set at. Modelling a campaign too much like the comic books is a challenge for me from a GM perspective. Not unworkable, but yep certainly a challenge.

I have found that BRP has been better with vigilante-level characters like Batman, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Deadpool, Watchmen, less potent X-Men and such. I am sure that BRP can run Superman, Thor, Hulk, etc, but my issue will be in providing reasonable threats for the player-characters.

It would require a much more creative GM than myself to keep things interesting.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Mankcam

[Atgxtg]

Yup. I agree that BRP handles low powered supers better than high powered one. As far as the Hulk goes, sure, realistically, he should be snapping people's spines with an angry backhand. But that's not how it works in the comics. People get sent flying and knocked out. So for someone who wants the full four colored Marvel experience, you need to tweak the damage rules. 

[Al.]

My quick-and-dirty system (which was originally written to 'solve' a quite different 'problem)

Unarmed attacks* inflict the higher of 1d3 OR damage bonus (not the sum)

Metal armour protects against with twice its usual AP

If a character is still conscious** at the end of a combat, they immediately heal half of the unarmed damage received (bruises and winding hurt and certainly affect one's ability to fight but they are not as long-lasting as crushed bones, impaled organs or sliced muscles)

However people can (sadly, obviously) be beaten to death so you have to be up and on your feet to get that 'thank goodness, I'm not hurt as badly as I thought' effect

 

* by humans, post-humans, animals or anything else

** which means that this bodge might not quite do what you want ...........

 

EDIT: obviously Hulk is still going to have to pull his punch when swatting Captain America but I think that he's going to be doing that whatever rules approach (maybe Banner has more residual control than we realised?)

Heroic (duh) Hit Points seem essential to Heroes in a Superhero game

Edited February 24, 2016 by Al.
Missed a bit