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The Temple of the Reaching Storm (An answer?)


Darius West

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Page 157 of King of Sartar features mention of the "Temple of the Reaching Storm" built by Argrath to stem nomad invasions from the North and East into Saird (Pentans?  Hungry Plateau Sables?)  between the years of 1629 and 1635.  I remember reading this and cocking a skeptical eyebrow at this aberrant development, and then I had an idea which I think bears repeating.

What happens when you become apostate from the Seven Mothers or other Lunar cults?  Well, some might send spirits of reprisal, but lets face facts, that won't discipline an illuminate, and the Lunars are all about illuminates.  Instead what happens is that you remain tied to the Lunar cycle. 

But hang on now...

If you are tied to the Lunar cycle and you are within the Glow Line, you still get all the magical advantages of the Lunar Cycle at it's ongoing Full Moon peak of power.

Now consider, if you were at war with the Lunar Empire what an advantage that would be?  If you had ex-Lunar apostates as recruits who now worship Orlanth, who were effectively turning the power of the moon against itself.  You might even consider joining the Seven Mothers yourself, just to quit and be tied to the Lunar cycle so all your spells now have twice the juice and twice the freshness.

Say, that whole thing about the White Moon... you don't suppose that is what happens when the Orlanthi suck all the magic out of it?

Remember that Argrath is an ex-Wolf Pirate and therefore one of the most cosmopolitan people in Glorantha, and he has even been to Jrustela, the home of the God Learner philosophy and now a Vadeli/Mostali hangout.  This seems like a very small concession to God Learnerism when you think about it.  Thoughts?  Criticisms?

Edited by Darius West
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Hi Yelm's Light.  I seriously think almost the entire Lunar Secret Service are illuminates, and if they aren't, they should learn.  Point taken, in fact I think you can see strong evidence of the Lunars being really good at infiltrating Earth cults e.g. Hon Eel, Jar Eel, Hwarin Dalthippa etc.

Think about what I wrote in these terms.  You are playing Argrath for a moment.  You gave recently conquered Tarsh, Holay, Ithmer, and Saird.  Like it or not, you are now in much the same position as the Lunars were in when they conquered Sartar.  You have a largely hostile population, and you can't extract much wealth from corpses, so you need to keep them alive to tax them.  On the up-side, due to your propaganda efforts, some of them would be quite prepared to come over to your side if it weren't for the fact that you trashed the Temple of the Reaching Moon and now their magic is sort of weak... until they get back inside the Glow Line.  Solution?  Rebuild the Temple of the Reaching Moon, and "tweak" it for your own use.  Thus is born the Reaching Storm.

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Then the question becomes, how is the Glowline extended, exactly?  Does it require the cooperation of the Red Goddess/Seven Mothers, and if so, would they see the pros as outweighing the cons?  Or would there be a response specifically targeting the Temple if such weren't the case?  Also, if such had occurred, wouldn't there be some reference to the Glowline expanding?

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6 hours ago, Darius West said:

You have a largely hostile population

Actually, in winning over Saird, Holay, Tarsh, ... you have a population that is still heavily Orlanthi in the hills.  The Lunars were never a dominant portion of the populace here - even in the lowlands, much remained a mix of Earth worshippers, DH colonists (i.e. Lodril & Oria), other native folk (e.g. dog folk of Saird worshipping Jajagappa, the Vanchites with their own weird and eclectic mix).

Argrath does need to find a unifying power and has broken the Temples of the Reaching Moon (at least those of Tarsh and Saird).  The goddess of the Reaching Moon is Yara Aranis.  From GtG p.741, we know the following about her:

Yara Aranis: The Six-Limbed Goddess of the Reaching Moon first fought against Argrath as the guardian of the Lunar borders and later served him during the Hero Wars as the Six-Limbed goddess of Saird.

So one aspect is the winning over (courting???) of Yara Aranis to Argrath's side.  Clearly big quest there - maybe because Argrath is Illuminated, he's more readily able to do this.  And could be aided by Lunar converts to his cause, certainly.

The other aspect to consider is that the Temples of the Reaching Moon represent a 'chaining' together of magic from one temple to another to extend the Glowline.  Now, nothing in KoS or GtG suggests that Argrath creates an equivalent of the Glowline.  But, he readily adopts other magical styles, so it would be natural for him to look to 'chain' his temples together to draw magical power together for greater effects.  If you look at the map in GtG p.297, not only does it show the temples of the Reaching Moon, it shows the great Storm Mountains.  The natural 'Storm' thing to do would be to use these mountains as the centers for the Temples of the Reaching Storm and chain them together, and then as you pump more worship/magic into those temples, to extend the radius of their influence (or find additional, old Storm mountains to incorporate into the pattern).

I think reusing the Temples of the Reaching Moon themselves would be less likely - they are not centers of storm power, sitting in lowlands as they do.  But some would certainly become temples to Yara Aranis, perhaps broken free from her Lunar chains.

Edited by jajagappa
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The quote for KoS 2nd ed, page 129 reads:

Quote

Shortly after that, Argrath began building the Temple of the Reaching Storm to protect all of Saird from the ravages of nomads from the north and east.

The horse nomads are the traditional enemies here. It's unlikely to be the Sables from the Hungry Plateau as Argrath is going to play the Praxian card on them and recruit them.

Although it say he "began building the Temple of the Reaching Storm" so it doesn't sound like he's repurposing  the existing Reaching Moon temple at Mirrin's Cross (see the Glowline map on page 273 of the Guide), he clearly is. The sidebar on page 741 clearly says:

Quote

The Six-Limbed Goddess of the Reaching Moon first fought against Argrath as the guardian of the Lunar borders and later served him during the Hero Wars as the Six-Limbed goddess of Saird.

He's turned Yara Aranis to be an ally! She has the runes of Earth Moon and Death (GTG p151). I think it's likely that her phase has shifted from Dying Moon to Crescent Come as part of her transformation and She's now able to access Full Storm through this phase (HQG p181).

She's the core of the Glowline and so the Glowline is no more. Somehow she's now the Goddess of the Reaching Storm and expanding the influence of the Storm beyond the maximum influences of Top of the World and Kero Fin (see map & sidebar GtG p296//7). This is Argrath tipping the mythical balance of control of the Middle Air between Orlanth and the Red Goddess, the central mythological conflict between them.

@jajagappa beat me to it :-)

Edited by David Scott
Jajagappa beat me to it
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Hi Jajagappa.  Interesting ideas oh great cynocephalic psychopomp.  A sensible counter argument even. YGMV.  I have yet to purchase GtG sadly, but my birthday is rapidly approaching and I will yet obtain this lore...

As to Yelm's Light, well, if matters require Rufelza's consent then all bets are off.  I have always assumed that a form of sympathetic magic was employed. wherein a large chunk of moon rock was placed within a symbolic representation of the "Face of Rufelza" which was placed above the temple, and remained ritually fixed thereafter.  Of course the crater makers could level it, but the empire would probably veto the idea as no doubt they will recapture the temple anon...

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6 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I have yet to purchase GtG sadly, but my birthday is rapidly approaching and I will yet obtain this lore...

A very worthwhile purchase, especially if digging into these details. :-)

6 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I have always assumed that a form of sympathetic magic was employed. wherein a large chunk of moon rock was placed within a symbolic representation of the "Face of Rufelza" which was placed above the temple

Yes, I would expect to see something on this order, though designs and practices likely vary somewhat between the individual temples.  And while we know from KoS and other sources that the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Sartar was being built on a different, perhaps grander, plan than traditional, it still included a Moon Rock at the center which the dragon subsequently devoured.

Whether the rock was above, beside, beneath, in front of, probably depends on the temple and perhaps the native powers at the site that they had to propitiate, honor, or overwhelm.

10 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Of course the crater makers could level it, but the empire would probably veto the idea as no doubt they will recapture the temple anon...

Except now they can call on the powers of the thunderstorm presumably to hurl thunderstones and hail against the meteors of the crater makers in defense, or use the powers of the great winds to drive the meteors aside.

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1 minute ago, jajagappa said:
13 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I have always assumed that a form of sympathetic magic was employed. wherein a large chunk of moon rock was placed within a symbolic representation of the "Face of Rufelza" which was placed above the temple

Yes, I would expect to see something on this order, though designs and practices likely vary somewhat between the individual temples.

We have a description of the usual temples in the Guide on page 297. I don't think the lump of Moon rock is needed, although undoubtably there's some in the temple. As the temple's circular central hall contains a "live" magical representation of the heavens with the Red Moon at its centre, it's this Full Moon that is the axis mundi for the effect. It is actually heaven on earth, as above so below. I've always imagined that the hall is much like the Pantheon, with the Full Moon always visible through the ceiling hole, a direct reflection of the true sky in the hall below. Like standing in the Crater. The inside of the hall is also on the Moon as well.

23 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I have yet to purchase GtG

You really need the Guide, it contains much on what you are speculating.

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3 hours ago, David Scott said:

I've always imagined that the hall is much like the Pantheon, with the Full Moon always visible through the ceiling hole, a direct reflection of the true sky in the hall below. Like standing in the Crater. The inside of the hall is also on the Moon as well.

Forgot the description was in the Guide.  But yes!  I think your comment here is spot on.

Makes me wonder what happens when Argrath conquers the temples of Tarsh and Saird?  If he converts them to Temples of the Reaching Storm, do we get little storms in those spots on the Moon?  Or perhaps it is simply disconnected at that point from the Moon so that the Full Moon is no longer visible within?

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11 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Forgot the description was in the Guide.  But yes!  I think your comment here is spot on.

Makes me wonder what happens when Argrath conquers the temples of Tarsh and Saird?  If he converts them to Temples of the Reaching Storm, do we get little storms in those spots on the Moon?  Or perhaps it is simply disconnected at that point from the Moon so that the Full Moon is no longer visible within?

I would think you would look up into the sky, see the clouds swirling in an infinite air rune.

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23 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Makes me wonder what happens when Argrath conquers the temples of Tarsh and Saird?  If he converts them to Temples of the Reaching Storm, do we get little storms in those spots on the Moon?

Once Yara Aranis is on his side, I'd say disconnected and no connection to the moon, so no storms on the moon.

23 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Or perhaps it is simply disconnected at that point from the Moon so that the Full Moon is no longer visible within?

I think the perfect sky is reconfigured to be Orlanth biased not moon biased.

12 hours ago, Pentallion said:

I would think you would look up into the sky, see the clouds swirling in an infinite air rune.

Although it would look cool, I'm not sure that makes sense. I'm thinking along the lines of when Orlanth reappears after Windstop - he's changed, it's that change that allows his release from the underworld. But what's the nature of the change? I think it's likely that he now encompasses a small part of the moon inside him, much like he has hidden Dragon self. His ring is also changed, the original eight stars disappeared and it eventually reappeared with eleven. I think the perfect sky from an Orlanth perspective is focussed on Orlanth's ring. This would make sense from a magical perspective especially if Argrath is trying to "amplify" the storm power and protect the region. So looking through the hole you would see Orlanth's ring. Outside, this would mean Orlanth's ring was always in the sky. I would suggest that it follows its normal path but reappears immediately from its exit at Polestar at Stormgate. Perhaps the star that disappeared violently at Castle Blue, was Orlanth's secret moon heart. I've not looked at @Ian Cooper's Eleven Lights, so this is just wild speculation on my part. However, what is clear to me is that Argrath is messing with the cosmos on a deep level, that has not been seen since the God Learners and EWF.

As to the actual effect of all this - Climate Change - more stormy weather in the region, easier to do storm magic. A change is plant growth, perhaps a decline in maize production as it's wetter and a rise in more traditional wheat and barley in the lowlands that was previously limited to the hills.

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17 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I think the perfect sky is reconfigured to be Orlanth biased not moon biased.

That makes sense.  And with Orlanth's Ring as a key sign of its rightness and 'perfection'.

 

18 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I would suggest that it follows its normal path but reappears immediately from its exit at Polestar at Stormgate

I don't think it would do that - the Underworld quest is important to Orlanth.  But perhaps its trek through the Underworld 'sky' is visible?

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2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

 

22 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I would suggest that it follows its normal path but reappears immediately from its exit at Polestar at Stormgate

I don't think it would do that - the Underworld quest is important to Orlanth.  But perhaps its trek through the Underworld 'sky' is visible?

This was my quandary, you are right about the underworld, but I can't see how that would work in keeping the ring visible in the sky. Having the ring missing from the sky doesn't really work for me. Perhaps this is Argrath's trick, Orlanth doesn't go the the Underworld, perhaps something else does it in his place. We need to think big here, Argrath is manipulating the cosmos.

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8 hours ago, David Scott said:

Once Yara Aranis is on his side, I'd say disconnected and no connection to the moon, so no storms on the moon.

I think the perfect sky is reconfigured to be Orlanth biased not moon biased.

Although it would look cool, I'm not sure that makes sense. I'm thinking along the lines of when Orlanth reappears after Windstop - he's changed, it's that change that allows his release from the underworld. But what's the nature of the change? I think it's likely that he now encompasses a small part of the moon inside him, much like he has hidden Dragon self. His ring is also changed, the original eight stars disappeared and it eventually reappeared with eleven. I think the perfect sky from an Orlanth perspective is focussed on Orlanth's ring. This would make sense from a magical perspective especially if Argrath is trying to "amplify" the storm power and protect the region. So looking through the hole you would see Orlanth's ring. Outside, this would mean Orlanth's ring was always in the sky. I would suggest that it follows its normal path but reappears immediately from its exit at Polestar at Stormgate. Perhaps the star that disappeared violently at Castle Blue, was Orlanth's secret moon heart. I've not looked at @Ian Cooper's Eleven Lights, so this is just wild speculation on my part. However, what is clear to me is that Argrath is messing with the cosmos on a deep level, that has not been seen since the God Learners and EWF.

As to the actual effect of all this - Climate Change - more stormy weather in the region, easier to do storm magic. A change is plant growth, perhaps a decline in maize production as it's wetter and a rise in more traditional wheat and barley in the lowlands that was previously limited to the hills.

The very moon heart - an idea I disagree with, but regardless - concept would be realized within an infinite air rune spiral.  the idea of endless death and rebirth of the moonies is basically infinity.  So is the endless air rune, subsuming the moon cult philosophy and replacing it within the air rune.

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I can't remember the sources exactly. My memory is that Yarra Aranis was created by Moonson to suppress the nomads. Later she was somewhat repurposed to support the Glowline and later still the Glowline was used to repress and convert Storm worshippers.

So my guess is that Agrath quested, likely with his Lunar Illuminates, to get inside one of her more important temples and gave Yarra Aranis to chance/choice to fulfill her original purpose of killing nomads. Likely this involved a quest challenge against the most senior priestesses of the Yarra Aranis hierarchy. Somehow Argrath offered something that they truly desired or needed as part of the challenge. Or put them in a position where the consequences of not accepting the challenge were worse than losing the challenge. Or, possibly, tricked them into accepting what seemed to be a relatively innocuous challenge - though I think this option is a bit of a cop-out.

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11 hours ago, Pentallion said:

The very moon heart - an idea I disagree with

Sure, as I said this is all wild speculation. Argrath is clearly a Larnsting and so has access to mystical powers. My preference is to think big and new rather than small and conservative. The Hero Wars has massive mythic and physical impact on Glorantha; Icebergs are going to block Magasta's Pool, Dragon Pass is going to be flooded, Ralzakark is going to be Emperor, etc. I'd also like to speculate that Argrath wins over Yara Aranis by heroquesting back to her conception with Gorgorma, taking the place of the Red Emperor. This comes to a head on the battlefield with Argrath locked in combat with her. Argrath has sprouted multiple arms just like Orlanth to fight her like for like, (think Ray Harryhausen Dynamation). Whilst locked together at an impasse Argrath whispers words of power to her - "Search your feelings Yara Aranis, you know I am your father..."

More epic suggestions please :-)

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12 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I'd also like to speculate that Argrath wins over Yara Aranis by heroquesting back to her conception with Gorgorma, taking the place of the Red Emperor. This comes to a head on the battlefield with Argrath locked in combat with her. Argrath has sprouted multiple arms just like Orlanth to fight her like for like, (think Ray Harryhausen Dynamation). Whilst locked together at an impasse Argrath whispers words of power to her - "Search your feelings Yara Aranis, you know I am your father..."

More epic suggestions please :-)

As a much stranger option, the association of the Goddess of Tormented Death (as she's been named in the Sartar Companion) with Gorgorma may not be accurate. As the Bringer of Death to Murharzarm, Umatum is just as possible a figure.

Gods can be male and female as they need to. So can heroes, (Especially heroes who represent the Power of Change.) Argrath wasn't Yara Aranis' father, instead he was her mother. And on the battlefield he proved that she could not strike against the one who brought her life.

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I see (at least) two options here:

- either Argrath quested to birth/create a brand new six-limbed goddess (probably reusing Lunar secrets and links to Gorgorma to his advantage), and built the Temples for this Sister-Goddess.

"Ok, creating gods is slightly untraditional, but guys, we need to stop these Pentans..." ("Which you strengthened by bringing about this traitor, you fool"... "- Elusu, don't abuse my patience!")

 

- or he allies Yara Aranis "as she is" (well, questing a bit of course), and rebuilds the Temples in Tarsh and Holay to serve his own purpose.

Does she maintain the Glowline still? But accepts to shut it down when so commanded?

in that case, I'm curious about what happens to the other YA temples. Is the transformation so big that they also change, and the Heartlands may lose the Glowline? Or do we get two competing YA cults, fighting on both sides and using different rituals?

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