Pavis in the time of RQG

[Pentallion]

So what is it like in the Big Rubble and New Pavis at the time setting of RQG?  What has changed?  Who is in charge of New Pavis?  What is the situation in the Real City?  Where do the Praxians currently stand with regard to P&BR?  What's the new Jaldon's relationship with the city?  How have the trolls, elves and dwarves reacted to the changes?  Who are the power brokers now that the Lunars are gone?  With the Patromas gone, who has filled that void?  What is happening to the Eiskolli?  Have they already fallen or is there a power struggle going on there?  What, if anything, has changed in the Rubble with the absence of the Lunars?

Edited May 8, 2017 by Pentallion

[Jeff]

By the end of 1625, Pavis has changed pretty dramatically. There is a King of Pavis, the Pavis Survivors have replaced Hargran the Dirty and now run the Pavis Royal Guard - the King is also the White Bull and the dominant Praxian warlord. That being said, he has bigger fish to fry than Pavis, and his focus is on his return to Dragon Pass (with an army of Praxians and adventurers).

Praxians are permitted with the walls of New Pavis, but those residents of the city who have sworn loyalty to the new king are under the White Bull's protection. The Lunars and their allies were killed or exiled following the capture of the city. The Orlanth cult is dominant within the city (the King is the Rex priest and claims kinship with the founder), Storm Bull's temple re-opened, and Yelmalio cult is in turmoil between a reactionary faction and an experimental faction.

The Elder Races still rule their sections of the Old Rubble and the trolls are biding their time for when the White Bull and his army leave.

[Pentallion]

What are the Yelmalian experimental faction experimenting about?  I mean, obviously it has to do with HeroQuesting.  Is that to be defined enough to make a plot hook or left open for GMs?

Edited May 8, 2017 by Pentallion

[Jeff]

One faction has allied itself with Agrath and embraces the Sun Dragon. The other faction opposes all such "God Learnerism". 

[Byll]

Scripted evolution in the game world, even a YGWV type world, is not everybody's cup of tea. I know time marches on in the real world, but I don't want to emulate all of the real world... Traveller did oodles of this but it was all water off a duck's back to me.

[Jeff]

We are "resetting" the default starting date for RuneQuest to be post-Dragonrise. I think after 40 years of it playing under the Lunar Occupation, it is ok to skip ahead. 

[MOB]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Yelmalio cult is in turmoil between a reactionary faction and an experimental faction.

An excellent way of putting it!

The experimental faction is led by Count Belvani. After his predecessor's death at the Second Battle of Moonbroth, he failed to convince those back at the Sun Dome Temple of his rightful status as Count, though several of the Temple Guardian Spirits came over to him. Belvani set up a rival court at the Old Sun Dome for a while, until driven out. He is now a "count-in-exile" based in New Pavis, though several towns in Sun County openly support his cause.

The reactionary faction at the Sun Dome Temple is (somewhat ironically), led by a women, Countess Vega Goldbreath. Her faction also holds the Yelmalio Temple Hill in The Rubble.

[David Scott]

8 hours ago, Pentallion said:

What's the new Jaldon's relationship with the city?

Although now he's once again the Pap's Khan, Jaldon does what Jaldon always does, he leaves to raid Dragon Pass. He has a new friend to help him do so. Argrath only sidestepped his curse, he still needs to go back into Dragon Pass anyway to try and finally break the curse. Then he can finally pass into the afterlife of Waha and Eiritha. His appointment as Paps Khan puts him back into his most reluctant role, however it was most the most productive in terms of militarily organising the Praxians as a unified fighting force. Many of the scenarios in Nomad Gods, such as the Tribal altars one were invented by him to train the Praxians into a more efficient fighting machine (you did add the Nomad Gods rules book to your Khan of Khans pledge didn't you?). After a year or so he's replaced as Paps's Khan.

[Byll]

"Quack, quack"...

Edited May 8, 2017 by Byll
potential for misinterpretation

[MOB]

25 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Although now he's once again the Pap's Khan, Jaldon does what Jaldon always does, he leaves to raid Dragon Pass. He has a new friend to help him do so. Argrath only sidestepped his curse, he still needs to go back into Dragon Pass anyway to try and finally break the curse.

Although Argrath as King of Pavis might recognize Belvani’s claim as the legitimate count, in reality all of Argrath’s attention and resources are fully focused on conquering Dragon Pass. If Belvani wants to win back Sun County it is entirely up to him. Unfortunately, in return for this recognition, Belvani is obliged to send his best forces campaigning with Argrath in Dragon Pass too.

The Sun Dome temple in Suntown is now the center of power for the new Sun Dragon aspect of Yelmalio worship. Out in the Vulture’s Country, the prison and salt mines at Pent Ridge remain under Belvani’s control. This site appears to have some form of ritual significance for the Sun Dragon cult and is secretly provisioned by supporters from the closest Sun County outpost of Wiley’s Well.

[Joerg]

Which side is Rurik on?

[Jon Hunter]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

We are "resetting" the default starting date for RuneQuest to be post-Dragonrise. I think after 40 years of it playing under the Lunar Occupation, it is ok to skip ahead. 

It does change the nature of setting significantly though.

Rather than starting characters in a stable world with 'trouble brewing', with an organised order than can be supported, rebelled against or ignored.

Its a setting which has no stable order, forces characters to take sides, making it a more political game, which has a a greater tendency to jump onto rails, and players are more likely to be minor players in bigger stories.

Its also creates issues with some of the classic supplements which rules wise maybe in step with RQG, but setting wise are significantly effected.  Borderlands is redundant without a complete overhaul of the premise, Pavis and the Rubble need major reworking,  out of the big campaign packs only Griffin Mountains stays relatively untouched. 

Apart from 'freshness' and 'change' what do you see as the upsides of the  change of setting date?

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jon Hunter

[Steve]

You don't have to play RQG using the new 1625 timeframe. You can stick with the old timeframe if you prefer it, and use that when using the old supplements.

[Joerg]

4 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

It does change the nature of setting significantly though.

Rather than starting characters in a stable world with 'trouble brewing', with an organised order than can be supported, rebelled against or ignored.

Its a setting which has no stable order, forces characters to take sides, making it a more political game, which has a a greater tendency to jump onto rails, and players are more likely to be minor players in bigger stories.

Its also creates issues with some of the classic supplements which rules wise maybe in step with RQG, but setting wise are significantly effected.  Borderlands is redundant without a complete overhaul of the premise, Pavis and the Rubble need major reworking,  out of the big campaign packs only Griffin Mountains stays relatively untouched. 

Apart from 'freshness' and 'change' what do you see as the upsides of the  change of setting date?

First upside - you get to use those epic battles from the White Bear Red Moon / Dragon Pass boardgame as backdrop for your games (and heroquesting). You don't have to participate in these directly, but could do special missions. Basically, become like the Assassin units in the game.

True, the old classics aren't up to date any more. Re-arranging Pavis to the same level of detail would be a major overhaul.

But there would be interesting consequences, too. How would Argrath "tax" adventuring in the Rubble? As an Orlanthi king, he might well declare the rubble as his tribal area, and require an oath of fealty for everyone entering. Any proceeds would have to be laid out before him (or his representative), and while a generous king will give most of the findings to the finder, he will certainly keep some of them for himself, maybe offering other rewards for this. Including unwanted rewards like promotion to an official role in his court.

The Rubble doesn't need that much attention, really. The Zebra pens work like they are supposed to do, the Real City gets rebuilt a little more, the trolls still occupy most of the far end of the Rubble. Nomads are allowed in.

Troll Pak isn't affected much, either. The Wooden Sword folk aren't around any more, so maybe the Sazdorf episode is about as dated as is Apple Lane. The rest still is pretty much up to date.

 

In Sartar, clan history will have a few new entries - what we tell about how we survived the Fimbulwinter, and what we don't tell about how we survived the Fimbulwinter, how and when we joined Kallyr's uprising.

 

More upsides - as the war pushes Argrath around, so may your campaign hit some or all of the hot spots. All manner of exotic magic becoming "legal" to admit to having. Tricksters galore. EWFish stuff, sorcerers and western mercenaries. New, imaginative uses of magic (yet unreported - you find and explore them, build them). Do stuff in the Otherworlds and gawp at the consequences.

 

 

[Jon Hunter]

19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

First upside - you get to use those epic battles from the White Bear Red Moon / Dragon Pass boardgame as backdrop for your games (and heroquesting). You don't have to participate in these directly, but could do special missions. Basically, become like the Assassin units in the game.

True, the old classics aren't up to date any more. Re-arranging Pavis to the same level of detail would be a major overhaul.

But there would be interesting consequences, too. How would Argrath "tax" adventuring in the Rubble? As an Orlanthi king, he might well declare the rubble as his tribal area, and require an oath of fealty for everyone entering. Any proceeds would have to be laid out before him (or his representative), and while a generous king will give most of the findings to the finder, he will certainly keep some of them for himself, maybe offering other rewards for this. Including unwanted rewards like promotion to an official role in his court.

The Rubble doesn't need that much attention, really. The Zebra pens work like they are supposed to do, the Real City gets rebuilt a little more, the trolls still occupy most of the far end of the Rubble. Nomads are allowed in.

Troll Pak isn't affected much, either. The Wooden Sword folk aren't around any more, so maybe the Sazdorf episode is about as dated as is Apple Lane. The rest still is pretty much up to date.

 

In Sartar, clan history will have a few new entries - what we tell about how we survived the Fimbulwinter, and what we don't tell about how we survived the Fimbulwinter, how and when we joined Kallyr's uprising.

 

More upsides - as the war pushes Argrath around, so may your campaign hit some or all of the hot spots. All manner of exotic magic becoming "legal" to admit to having. Tricksters galore. EWFish stuff, sorcerers and western mercenaries. New, imaginative uses of magic (yet unreported - you find and explore them, build them). Do stuff in the Otherworlds and gawp at the consequences.

 

 

Seems more suited to heroquest to me

[TRose]

 two more questions.

 What is Orlanthi law and the White Bull feeling about enslaving Lunar settlers instead of killing them? If An Orlanthi return to the farm that was seized by the Lunar government and tells the Lunar settlers he taking his farm back and you are now my thralls or you will die is this acceptable behavior?

 Second is the Grantlands and Duke Raus. In most games Duke Raus has retired and replaced by a player character of a Neutral Cult.  I know my  Yelmalian player character would quickly try to reach an understanding with Prince Agrath and not fight a suicidal fight to the Death unless that was the only option.

[Joerg]

16 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

Seems more suited to heroquest to me

I am a RuneQuester at heart, and I see ways to play this with RQ.

3 minutes ago, TRose said:

 two more questions.

 What is Orlanthi law and the White Bull feeling about enslaving Lunar settlers instead of killing them? If An Orlanthi return to the farm that was seized by the Lunar government and tells the Lunar settlers he taking his farm back and you are now my thralls or you will die is this acceptable behavior?

Orlanthi farmers don't own their farms - their clans do. There are only a few clans or tribes that have been destroyed or chased away by the Lunars. The Maboder were already in tatters from Telmori attacks when Jomes Wulf received their lands, the clans are basically lost, even though the survivors worked as thralls on Jomes' lands. The Dundealos were replaced by the Enstalos, with some clans remaining intact while the rest fled to Barbarian Town. They would drive the Enstalos clan from their lands, and might give any captured Enstalos as slaves to their Pol Joni allies.

There is that strange new Colymar clan which might be a problem. Other than that, clan authority over their lands has gone unchallenged.

Sartar has experienced a significant population loss during the Fimbulwinter, leaving arable land untended in its aftermath.

 

3 minutes ago, TRose said:

 Second is the Grantlands and Duke Raus. In most games Duke Raus has retired and replaced by a player character of a Neutral Cult.  I know my  Yelmalian player character would quickly try to reach an understanding with Prince Agrath and not fight a suicidal fight to the Death unless that was the only option.

The problem isn't so much Argrath, but his Praxian allies who regard the Zola Fel valley as one of their traditional grazing grounds. Unless your successor at Ronegarth is willing to become the leader of an oasis folk settlement of slightly different background, it will take significant effort with the Praxians to be accepted as something else. The Sun Domers managed, your settlement would be in the first stages of getting there.

Ronegarth is close enough to Sun County to undergo annexion.

I wonder whether Corflu might be a rallying point for other Grantlanders, with a small agricultural belt around the delta.

In both cases, the settlements would have to offer the Praxians something in exchange for being left alone. What do they have to offer?

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Jon Hunter said:

It does change the nature of setting significantly though.

 

Apart from 'freshness' and 'change' what do you see as the upsides of the  change of setting date?

From our perspective there are far more upsides to resetting the default setting date than staying another 30 years in 1618-1621:

1. It gets rid of the "Lunar Occupation" straightjacket for adventures set in Sartar, New Pavis, or the Holy Country. 

2. It introduces moral ambiguity while allowing mixed parties (Sartarites and Lunars in the same party - yeah!).

3. It opens up events to alternate paths. The events of 1621 to 1625 are well documented. Between King of Sartar, the Guide to Glorantha, the 11 Lights, and the Glorantha Sourcebook, that period is as described as 1613 to 1621, if not more so. 

4. it makes the setting more accessible to newbies who don't have to deal with 30+ years of speculation of the same 3 year period.

Finally, and perhaps most important, you are more likely to get far more scenarios and campaigns as a result. 

[David Scott]

3 hours ago, Byll said:

Scripted evolution in the game world, even a YGWV type world, is not everybody's cup of tea. I know time marches on in the real world, but I don't want to emulate all of the real world... Traveller did oodles of this but it was all water off a duck's back to me.

So if you're not following the set background (from King of Sartar), where does your game deviate? Do you have the dragonrise, Argrath or the Hero Wars (as per the Dragon Pass board game)?

Personally as a GM I really enjoy games with a grand background you can play against. I enjoyed the traveller 5th frontier board game that generated background for the rpg. I also liked their shattered imperium background to play against. Likewise with Exalted, the return of the scarlet empress background story worked well with the main rpg. 

[JonL]

1 hour ago, Steve said:

You don't have to play RQG using the new 1625 timeframe. You can stick with the old timeframe if you prefer it, and use that when using the old supplements.

It strikes me that this is part of the point of breaking from the RQ6 branch and making RQG stat-block-compatable with the RQ2 classics. They don't need to publish RQG versions of those supplements, since they're largely usable as they are. 

[Jon Hunter]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

From our perspective there are far more upsides to resetting the default setting date than staying another 30 years in 1618-1621:

1. It gets rid of the "Lunar Occupation" straightjacket for adventures set in Sartar, New Pavis, or the Holy Country. 

2. It introduces moral ambiguity while allowing mixed parties (Sartarites and Lunars in the same party - yeah!).

3. It opens up events to alternate paths. The events of 1621 to 1625 are well documented. Between King of Sartar, the Guide to Glorantha, the 11 Lights, and the Glorantha Sourcebook, that period is as described as 1613 to 1621, if not more so. 

4. it makes the setting more accessible to newbies who don't have to deal with 30+ years of speculation of the same 3 year period.

Finally, and perhaps most important, you are more likely to get far more scenarios and campaigns as a result. 

All fair answers.

but I kind of liked the lunar occupation straight jacket.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jon Hunter

[MOB]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Which side is Rurik on?

Rurik is one of Argrath's boon companions.

Rurik was present at the Fall of Pavis. After disappearing, presumed dead following the Cradle incident, Rurik's triumphant return came riding atop the Golden Wyrm that destroyed the Watchdog of Corflu and broke the seige. He led the storming of the Lunar Headquarters, and personally killed the hated lunar governor, who he found hiding in a privy*. During the celebrations that followed, Rurik had time to enact the Three Blows of Anger to reclaim his wife, but was back in Dragon Pass campaigning before the schism erupted in Sun County. He has been back to Pavis but once, only briefly, during the week of the Dragonrise, where was seen taking part in a strange ritual in the Rubble in the company of Argrath.

His wife, Rana Goldenhair, belongs to the prominent Eiskolli family. Rurik safeguards the interests of his wife and the kinfolk he married into, making Rana the defacto head of Suntown. She sits as the Suntown representative on the Pavis City Council.

The Eiskollis adroitly survived the change from the Lunar occupation to the Argrath as King of Pavis with their prestige and fortune intact, although they have conflicted loyalties in struggle of the two counts.

The Eiskollis resident in New Pavis have now tacitly accepted Belvani’s rule, and he in turn has confirmed all their ancestral privileges (except that he has claimed their former palace for his own). 

In Sun County itself Rana’s cousin Varthanicus claims to be head of the Eiskoilli family. He is fanatically devoted to Countess Vega, and serves as the captain of her Golden Guard and leader of her inquisition. He led the forces that committed the infamous Newtling Massacre at Five Eyes Temple in the panic that followed the Dragonrise.

[Jon Hunter]

32 minutes ago, David Scott said:

So if you're not following the set background (from King of Sartar), where does your game deviate? Do you have the dragonrise, Argrath or the Hero Wars (as per the Dragon Pass board game)?

Personally as a GM I really enjoy games with a grand background you can play against. I enjoyed the traveller 5th frontier board game that generated background for the rpg. I also liked their shattered imperium background to play against. Likewise with Exalted, the return of the scarlet empress background story worked well with the main rpg. 

I liked the time to build you characters up to players by the time events kick off

[MOB]

*the resourceful Halcyon cunningly switched clothes with a flunky just before the assault, and it was actually the luckless double’s head that got paraded around afterwards, not his. He managed to flee the city and eventually make his way back to the Empire, along with Marusa. Rumor has it they were both among the very few Lunar survivors of the Dragonrise.

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, TRose said:

 What is Orlanthi law and the White Bull feeling about enslaving Lunar settlers instead of killing them? If An Orlanthi return to the farm that was seized by the Lunar government and tells the Lunar settlers he taking his farm back and you are now my thralls or you will die is this acceptable behavior?

It depends if your clan takes thralls or not. If not then it depends on how compassionate you are. If the settlers move out peacefully and then you slaughter them, then not very.