RQG "augmenting" a roll

[g33k]

So... as I understand it, Runic affinities and passions can each be used (if relevant) to "augment" a roll; but only ONE may augment a roll, even if you have 2 or more that are relevant.

The munchkin in me wants to ask (and the GM in me expects to BE asked):

• If your attempt to Augment "fails" (thus lowering the effective skill), can you roll on a different Rune/passion... re-rolling until you have a positive Augmentation or no more are relevant?
• Can you "cascade" Augmentations... e.g. use your Runic affinity to Augment your passion, then use the augment'ed passion to augment the skill-roll?
• Can a skill ever augment a Rune or passion roll?

I'm betting there are other munchkinous notions, but those are the ones that occur at the moment...

 

[styopa]

1) Basically, you get one rune/passion augment per situation, as I read it.  If you try to use it to help in a circumstance, that's your one try.  The applicability/breadth of that (when does one 'situation' end and allow you to try again?) is likely a DM call.

2) I simply wouldn't allow such cascades, not sure if the rules will be explicit on that.  Likewise, I think DM's will have to arbitrate on how widely other characters' augments can apply - everyone in a group searching the horizon for the lost cow can help; not sure more than one (or even one) person can help you pick a lock.

3) I'd assume so, in the sense that Dance or Sing can sometimes help rituals?  IMO DM's and groups will relatively quickly come to some sort of common understanding about the APPLICABILITY of such situations, and which can go with which.  I can see this varying a LOT between groups, because it is so subjective.

 

My opinion only, of course.

[Mankcam]

So it's basically a new version of the BGB Complimentary Skill rules?

Although it seems a bit clunkier now - instead of adding a bonus equal to Special Success %, now it requires a separate Rune or Passiion roll first. Although the +20% to the augmented ability is a nice reward

Given that Runes can also portray personality aspects, I expect that this may add an organic element to the game, and I can see people using narratives to stretch things to justify the augmention. That may be a good thing.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mankcam

[Jeff]

We actually found this approach much easier than adding the Special % - and it encourages players to improve their secondary skills, Passions, and Runes (you want to have a good chance to succeed with the augment, as failing the roll actually imposes a penalty.
As to the cascading issue, only one attempt at being inspired by a Rune or passion can be made in a situation or scene - such as the duration of a combat, battle, assembly meeting, magical ritual, etc. An adventurer does not get to make an inspiration roll every time they swing a sword!

 

[Mankcam]

I like the idea that its a gamble, and if you fail your Rune/Passion roll you receive a penalty. Nice bit of balance there.

The flat bonus of +20% is also a much easier calculation than the BGB version ( and a bit more significant as well).

I can see this mechanic being a good addition to the classic RQ rules

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mankcam

[kpmcdona]

I am curious about the time required for an augment. Is it free? Should it be? At least a strike rank delay as you build up a head of steam with a passion or call on a rune seems fair. Taking a round to do so wouldn't be awful considering the potential benefit.

[styopa]

48 minutes ago, kpmcdona said:

I am curious about the time required for an augment. Is it free? Should it be? At least a strike rank delay as you build up a head of steam with a passion or call on a rune seems fair. Taking a round to do so wouldn't be awful considering the potential benefit.

I ruled that it took no time, and could be effectively used as an interrupt.  If we look at passions, for example, if you Hate(Lunars) and you're fighting one, you *already* hate them, it's literally part of you.  While it's certainly more cinematic to say you have to muster rage somehow, imo realistically, you'd just let the hate come as fast as thought.

And runes, being as elemental (no pun intended) to the threads of existence, I'd guess would be the same.  You don't have to 'cast' an augment, it just IS.

Now, I *would* handle skill augments differently, that they would take time to apply in logical sense; if you're using orate to augment someone else's bargain skill, it's going to take a few rounds of talking before it impacts.  

[Psullie]

I think what hasn't been covered yet is that Passions, Runes etc (I imagine) are subject to experience checks. So each time you pass your Hate (Lunars) roll there is a risk that it will increase. So relying too much on raw energy could slowly spell doom for your character as traits over 80% are subject to Mandatory rolls. Which by the way was a sweet part of Pendragon and which really fits with the epic myth of Glorantha

[styopa]

2 hours ago, Psullie said:

I think what hasn't been covered yet is that Passions, Runes etc (I imagine) are subject to experience checks. So each time you pass your Hate (Lunars) roll there is a risk that it will increase. So relying too much on raw energy could slowly spell doom for your character as traits over 80% are subject to Mandatory rolls. Which by the way was a sweet part of Pendragon and which really fits with the epic myth of Glorantha

Yeah, there was nothing about character progression in RQG, and that's a good point.

Although I really, really don't like DM's 'taking over' a character.  "Your character wouldn't do that"....yuk.

[Richard S.]

4 hours ago, Psullie said:

I think what hasn't been covered yet is that Passions, Runes etc (I imagine) are subject to experience checks. So each time you pass your Hate (Lunars) roll there is a risk that it will increase. So relying too much on raw energy could slowly spell doom for your character as traits over 80% are subject to Mandatory rolls. Which by the way was a sweet part of Pendragon and which really fits with the epic myth of Glorantha

This sounds like an awesome way to represent how gods and heroes, through increasing their power, are ultimately subject to losing their free will as their runic affinities take over. I know there were a few heroquesting rules back in the day that incorporated stuff like this, but the new rune system sounds a lot more smooth and intuitive. I'm anxiously waiting for July 1st.

[g33k]

5 hours ago, styopa said:

Although I really, really don't like DM's 'taking over' a character.  "Your character wouldn't do that"....yuk.

Unless maybe there's a mechanic (in the main RQG rules) to lower a Passion that approaches the 80% GM-invoke'able levels.

Honestly:  if you've been regularly invoking a high-% Passion on a whenever-convenient basis, it feels apt for the GM to sometimes invoke it when it's less-convenient.

 

[Jeff]

The player can always choose to refuse the call of a Rune or Passion - but that can result in a reduction of its rating. If you have been taking the advantages of having an Air Rune at 95% (with a great chance of casting Rune magic, augments, etc.) and then choose to refuse the call of the Air Rune when it is inconvenient, then you have just proven that you don't have the Air Rune at 95%! Same thing with passions - you say you have an Honor or Loyalty to your clan at 90%, but choose to do something else when it is inconvenient, then odds are your passion will go down.

[Jeff]

15 hours ago, kpmcdona said:

I am curious about the time required for an augment. Is it free? Should it be? At least a strike rank delay as you build up a head of steam with a passion or call on a rune seems fair. Taking a round to do so wouldn't be awful considering the potential benefit.

Invoking a rune or passion takes no time. It takes the speed of thought.

Augmenting with another skill takes as long as the other skill requires.

Most of these questions are answered in the core rules - a 48 page free Quickstart is not going to go into great depths regarding rules nuance!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Jeff

[Pentallion]

I can say from personal experience that as you reach a certain age, the speed of thought adds an extra strike rank

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

I really like the extra dimension that the new Passions and Runes give the game. I've only had a briefish play of the quick start, but it really adds something new to RuneQuest.

I always liked the grittiness of combat in RQ, but the passions and runes combines nicely with that low level crunch feel, to bring a heroic aspect to that grittiness. 

It's also is very immersive, bedding the character into the world of Glorantha 

Edited June 20, 2017 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[g33k]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

The player can always choose to refuse the call of a Rune or Passion - but that can result in a reduction of its rating. If you have been taking the advantages of having an Air Rune at 95% (with a great chance of casting Rune magic, augments, etc.) and then choose to refuse the call of the Air Rune when it is inconvenient, then you have just proven that you don't have the Air Rune at 95%! Same thing with passions - you say you have an Honor or Loyalty to your clan at 90%, but choose to do something else when it is inconvenient, then odds are your passion will go down.

You aren't "ruled by your passions" so to speak; but then, sometimes as a consequence you just aren't "feelin' it" and getting that Augment ...  :-)

This strikes me as an excellent rule; I hope it's clear in the Core Rules release.

[creativehum]

9 hours ago, Jeff said:

The player can always choose to refuse the call of a Rune or Passion - but that can result in a reduction of its rating. If you have been taking the advantages of having an Air Rune at 95% (with a great chance of casting Rune magic, augments, etc.) and then choose to refuse the call of the Air Rune when it is inconvenient, then you have just proven that you don't have the Air Rune at 95%! Same thing with passions - you say you have an Honor or Loyalty to your clan at 90%, but choose to do something else when it is inconvenient, then odds are your passion will go down.

Hi Jeff,

In the complete rules is the method for dropping Rune or Passion formalized? 

In Pendragon there is the check method for Traits where you make a roll during the Winter Phase to see if Traits shift, and for Passions if you blow off a passion you drop a point in the Passion's value. For RQG does the Passion or Rune automatically drop 5% or something? 

[Jeff]

19 hours ago, creativehum said:

Hi Jeff,

In the complete rules is the method for dropping Rune or Passion formalized? 

In Pendragon there is the check method for Traits where you make a roll during the Winter Phase to see if Traits shift, and for Passions if you blow off a passion you drop a point in the Passion's value. For RQG does the Passion or Rune automatically drop 5% or something? 

This is in the full rules. It seemed pretty silly to include that in what is a one-shot QS. 

[creativehum]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

This is in the full rules. It seemed pretty silly to include that in what is a one-shot QS. 

Jeff, I wasn't accusing you of failing to put it in the QS. It makes perfect sense it isn't in the QS.

I was wondering how it will work in the full game. (I now know it is the full game!)

You might not want to tell me that, I suppose. But I was curious.

Edited June 21, 2017 by creativehum

[MOB]

Here's what we're going to do going forward:

Cult of Chaos Forum (password protected) - Discussion, questions, post mortems about "The Broken Tower" scenario in the RuneQuest Quickstart. 

RuneQuest Forum - Discussion about the RQG rules themselves, and the rules as presented in the RuneQuest Quickstart. No discussion or spoilers about "The Broken Tower" please.

Carry on...